THE CROSS

[Ariel82]

Galatians 5:11 And I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why do I still suffer persecution? Then the offense of the cross has ceased.

Galatians 6
[SUP]12 [/SUP]As many as desire to make a good showing in the flesh, these would compel you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For not even those who are circumcised keep the law, but they desire to have you circumcised that they may boast in your flesh. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom[SUP][a][/SUP] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. [SUP]15 [/SUP]For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but a new creation.

 

[Ariel82]

Ephesians 2
[h=3][/h][SUP]11 [/SUP]Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— [SUP]12 [/SUP]that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
[h=3]Christ Our Peace[/h][SUP]14 [/SUP]For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, [SUP]15 [/SUP]having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.
[h=3]Christ Our Cornerstone[/h][SUP]19 [/SUP]Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [SUP]20 [/SUP]having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, [SUP]21 [/SUP]in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, [SUP]22 [/SUP]in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

 

[Delija]

Some so-called Christians act on this thread as they have no idea what cross represent.Cross cannot be separated from God.In Cross is power of God.Speaking nonsense about Cross is speaking nonsense about God.Understand that!That Cross will judge to us all in the moment of Judgement day,remember that!

 

[Cobus]

Let me HOW you what has ALREADY judged the world and the prince of the world... Delija... It is NOT THE CROSS, it is the world that does not want to PASS BEYOND THE CROSS....


Look, can we taste the powers of the world to come WITHOUT PASSING THROUGH THE CROSS? Can we taste the HEAVENLY gift without having moved on of the principles to teach people to GO TO THE CROSS?


The principles of Christ is teaching people of the cross, IT IS THE FIRST THING YOU TEACH ANY NEW BELIEVER... REPENT.... Repent is TAKE UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW JESUS.... But should it STAY THERE?


If I FOLLOW JESUS and NEVER ENTERS THROUGH HIM, I will NEVER arrive with God....
Jesus said.. NO ONE GETS TO THE FATHER EXCEPT BY ME... NOT THE CROSS,..... BY JESUS HIMSELF... try to see that a person that stil NEEDS the cross, did not GO ON TO PERFECTION.....


Look here... there is more that REPENT AND CROSS AND BLOOD TO GET CLEAN.... THERE IS MORE.... GO ON TO PERFECTION.... NOT laying the foundation of REPENTANCE AGAIN.... The cross is only for the REPENTANCE PART... the FOUNDATION....


You will NEVER finish the building if you keep laying foundation... REPENTANCE IS FOUNDATION.. .Cross is for REPENTANCE...

MOVE ON TO PERFECTION....


Now Cobus all this is only hollow blabber and all silly.... SHOW SCRIPTURE....


Here you are, straight from GOD..... Hebrews 5:1 and 2.... herefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

My friends if you are still in the REPENTENCE stage when you die, YOU DID NOT MOVE ON TO PERFECTION,... I wonder what KEPT you in the repentance.... SIN? THen GET RID OF IT... Jesus does get rid of it.. THat is why he manifested.... TO TAKE AWAY OUR SINS, AND IN HIM IS NO SIN...

Wow! So the ones that did stop laying foundations and did COMPLETE repentance are now not following him, but are IN HIM and Jesus removes them from sin and sin from them? WOW!!!!! They are IN HIM and in HIM IS NO SIN... WOW! They truly did move on to perfection....


If yu ned more Scripture to believe this ASK I will PST straight from the WORD....

Show me one verse where God say... BE SINNERS EVEN AS YOUR FATHER IN HEAVEN IS A SINNER.... Please show me that verse... Or show me ... thse in Christ is still the old sinner.... Show me! You cannot but I can show the opposite... My god is WAY strnger than sin and flesh WAY stronger... He actually makes a sinner repent, and move on to perfection... RIGHT HERE ON EARTH!

 

[Delija]

Cobus,on which stage are u?Are u in PERFECTION?

 

[Ariel82]

[video=youtube;hk7_SBxYSZs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk7_SBxYSZs&list=RD02hk7_SBxYSZs[/video]

Song lyrics:

At the foot of the cross
Where grace and suffering meet
You have shown me Your love
Through the judgment You received
And You've won my heart
Yes You've won my heart
Now I can
Trade these ashes in for beauty
And wear forgiveness like a crown
Coming to kiss the feet of mercy
I lay every burden down
At the foot of the cross
At the foot of the cross
Where I am made complete
(I am made complete)
You have given me life
Through the death You bore for me
And you've won my heart
Yes you've won my heart
Now I can
Trade these ashes in for beauty
And wear forgiveness like a crown
Coming to kiss the feet of mercy
I lay every burden down
At the foot of the cross
Trade these ashes in for beauty
And wear forgiveness like a crown
Coming to kiss the feet of mercy
I lay every burden down
At the foot of the cross
And you've won my heart
Yes you've won my heart
Now I can
Trade these ashes in for beauty
And wear forgiveness like a crown
Coming to kiss the feet of mercy
I lay every burden down
At the foot of the cross
I'd trade these ashes in for beauty
And wear forgiveness like a crown
Coming to kiss the feet of mercy
I lay every burden down
I lay every burden down
I lay every burden down
At the foot of the cross
I'm laying every burden down
I'm laying every burden down

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Cobus,on which stage are u?Are u in PERFECTION?

IMO Cobus will never answer this question directly, but will hint around with an answer to suggest that he is. He believes it and wants others to believe it. He is good at long-winded expositions, but very poor at direct, simple answers. IMO that is because he is hiding from himself and the spirit in him won't let he speak the truth, i.e, to say that he is perfect, because if he did so the spirit of truth would call him a liar.

 

[posthuman]

Oh, this is a reply? No one said the hill wasn't holy.
Your MO is make a statement, read a response, then dodge the response. Amazing.
Remove thy sandals for thou standest on holy ground.

are you now calling the internet holy? or just mocking?
it's called 'the socratic method.'

if this thread is indeed holy, what makes it so? isn't it the purpose of it? the one it is set aside for?

I believe he is referring to the tabernacle that David set up for the ark on Mount Zion.

i believe you are closer to the truth than the scornful responses of our dear resident thread judge, brother lucan.

if a hill is sanctified by the tabernacle, or if you think by 'hill' the psalmist means to say 'tabernacle' - then what made the tabernacle holy?

if Christ is the lamb slain for the sins of the world - what was the cross but the altar of God? what then were the temple articles used in this, the final requirement of propitiation? were the articles of the tabernacle, metal and wood and animal skins and thread, not called holy to the Lord?

are the temple articles, if found today, still 'holy things' now that their purpose is passed? or was it their purpose & use that consecrated them?

what does Christ mean, "Be holy, for I am holy" ?

when He spit in the mud to make clay & heal the blind, wasn't His spittle holy? how about the whip He drove the money changers from the temple with - weren't these cords He picked up simple, profane things, until He picked them up, wove them into a whip and used them to set about his holy purpose?

in Exodus 13:12, the Lord declared ever firstborn male of Israel 'holy unto him' -- whether human or animal. is every firstborn child pure, blameless & free from sin? oxen, sheep, doves, dogs and men too?

or by 'holy' does the Lord mean dedicated to His purpose?

what does Christ mean, "Be holy, for I am holy" ?

apart from His grace, is any one of us pure, spotless, unblemished, sinless & perfect?

are we set apart for His purpose?

who is holy? what action can i take that is holy?
how can i be holy? what can make the works of my hands and the speech of my mouth holy?

is there any power or justification toward this but that work of God represented by the Cross & the Empty Tomb?

today they are nothing, a stick of wood and a niche in a rock. while they were used in this unparalleled act of oblation & redemption, they were the holy articles of the priesthood.

Lucan, maybe you just don't fully appreciate the victory of the Cross.

 

[Delija]

Then what does he trying?I dont get.
I am sinner the first of all,so am praying to God to forgive me.Lord Jesus Christ the Son of God,have mercy on me,a sinner.

It would be much more useful for us all to read how looks perspective of Early Church about this question.

 

[SirLucan]

IMO Cobus will never answer this question directly, but will hint around with an answer to suggest that he is. He believes it and wants others to believe it. He is good at long-winded expositions, but very poor at direct, simple answers. IMO that is because he is hiding from himself and the spirit in him won't let he speak the truth, i.e, to say that he is perfect, because if he did so the spirit of truth would call him a liar.

And you've never answered . . .
Yes. I am a CHRISTian. Please reread the prayer you posted. It explicitly states praying the cross. The cross is not holy. Why do you think the cross is holy?
People spit on Jesus. Is that holy?
The nails, are they holy?

I love Jesus Christ. I do not love the cross. You seem to not distinguish between the cross as a signifier and the thing it signifies - the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, Jesus the Christ.

If I worship the cross, I am not worshipping the Lord. If I pray to the cross, I am not praying to the Lord. Would you have me bow to the cross and pray to it? That's a sin. It is.

Judge. Judge. Judge. That is the response of the world. We are to judge, but it must be done according to truth. Not nit pick or with favoritism.

If there was found a splinter, just a tiny sliver of wood, that could be proved to be from the cross of Christ, do you know what people would do? They would worship it. Yes they would. It's a piece of wood. It is not holy. Do you not see that?

 

[Delija]

And you've never answered . . .
Yes. I am a CHRISTian. Please reread the prayer you posted. It explicitly states praying the cross. The cross is not holy. Why do you think the cross is holy?
People spit on Jesus. Is that holy?
The nails, are they holy?

I love Jesus Christ. I do not love the cross. You seem to not distinguish between the cross as a signifier and the thing it signifies - the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, Jesus the Christ.

If I worship the cross, I am not worshipping the Lord. If I pray to the cross, I am not praying to the Lord. Would you have me bow to the cross and pray to it? That's a sin. It is.

Judge. Judge. Judge. That is the response of the world. We are to judge, but it must be done according to truth. Not nit pick or with favoritism.

If there was found a splinter, just a tiny sliver of wood, that could be proved to be from the cross of Christ, do you know what people would do? They would worship it. Yes they would. It's a piece of wood. It is not holy. Do you not see that?

How one Christian can speak against Holy Cross?

 

[SirLucan]

How one Christian can speak against Holy Cross?

Delija, you're unresponsive. That's not an answer to my response. Do you worship the cross? Read the prayer you posted. It puts the cross in place of Jesus. That's idolatry.

 

[SirLucan]

How one Christian can speak against Holy Cross?

Here's the prayer you posted. Read it.

"Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered; and let those who hate Him flee from His face. As smoke vanishes, let them vanish; and as wax melts from the presence of fire, so let the demons perish from the presence of those who love God and who sign themselves with the Sign of the Cross and say with gladness: Hail, most precious and life-giving Cross of the Lord, for Thou drivest away the demons by the power of our Lord Jesus Christ Who was crucified on thee, went down to hell and trampled on the power of the devil, and gave us thee, His honorable Cross, for driving away all enemies. O most precious and life-giving Cross of the Lord, help me with our holy Lady, the Virgin Theotokos, and with all the Saints throughout the ages. Amen." t

That's the prayer. You posted it. Do you not see the emphasis on the object, the cross itself? It gives the cross prominence over Christ. The cross does not give life, Jesus does. This is blasphemous. Have you been in Catholic churches. They have places where you worship the cross.

Here are parts from your prayer:
1. Hail, most precious and life-giving Cross of the Lord,
2. was crucified on thee, (The writer refers to the cross as "thee.")
3. precious and life-giving Cross of the Lord, (No. The cross is not precious. Christ is precious. We were bought with the precious blood of Jesus.)
4. help me with our holy Lady, the Virgin Theotokos (Asking the cross to help! And what meanth holy lady?)

Catholicism this is.

 

[posthuman]

Romans 12:1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

it's pretty clear to me that my body is not pure, spotless & unblemished. it's the repurposing of our bodies (& selves) to the work of the Lord that consecrates them.

how can we do this, but by the Cross! crucified with Him to the world & the flesh, and through Him all the word & the flesh crucified unto us.

this is why the Lord says:
"Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me"

 

[SirLucan]

How one Christian can speak against Holy Cross?

The Romans crucified Jesus. Were the hands of the Romans holy? Were the Romans holy? Answer, please.
How about the nails. Are they holy?
How about the spit from the mockers. Is the spit holy?
How about Pilate? Is he holy?

The cross itself is not to be worshipped. It is not holy.

 

[SirLucan]

are you now calling the internet holy? or just mocking?
it's called 'the socratic method.'

if this thread is indeed holy, what makes it so? isn't it the purpose of it? the one it is set aside for?




i believe you are closer to the truth than the scornful responses of our dear resident thread judge, brother lucan.

if a hill is sanctified by the tabernacle, or if you think by 'hill' the psalmist means to say 'tabernacle' - then what made the tabernacle holy?

if Christ is the lamb slain for the sins of the world - what was the cross but the altar of God? what then were the temple articles used in this, the final requirement of propitiation? were the articles of the tabernacle, metal and wood and animal skins and thread, not called holy to the Lord?

are the temple articles, if found today, still 'holy things' now that their purpose is passed? or was it their purpose & use that consecrated them?

what does Christ mean, "Be holy, for I am holy" ?

when He spit in the mud to make clay & heal the blind, wasn't His spittle holy? how about the whip He drove the money changers from the temple with - weren't these cords He picked up simple, profane things, until He picked them up, wove them into a whip and used them to set about his holy purpose?

in Exodus 13:12, the Lord declared ever firstborn male of Israel 'holy unto him' -- whether human or animal. is every firstborn child pure, blameless & free from sin? oxen, sheep, doves, dogs and men too?

or by 'holy' does the Lord mean dedicated to His purpose?

what does Christ mean, "Be holy, for I am holy" ?

apart from His grace, is any one of us pure, spotless, unblemished, sinless & perfect?

are we set apart for His purpose?

who is holy? what action can i take that is holy?
how can i be holy? what can make the works of my hands and the speech of my mouth holy?

is there any power or justification toward this but that work of God represented by the Cross & the Empty Tomb?

today they are nothing, a stick of wood and a niche in a rock. while they were used in this unparalleled act of oblation & redemption, they were the holy articles of the priesthood.

Lucan, maybe you just don't fully appreciate the victory of the Cross.

Maybe you need to respond to my earlier posts to you. Are you Catholic? Just curious.
Do you know why those vessels were holy?

Answer this. Were the hands of the Romans holy? Well, because you don't appreciate Jesus and His love for us. And because you haven't answered the question, though I've presented it to you several times, I don't think you will answer it.

But here it is again. WERE THE HANDS OF THE ROMANS WHO CRUCIFIED JESUS HOLY? Please answer.

 

[SirLucan]

it's pretty clear to me that my body is not pure, spotless & unblemished. it's the repurposing of our bodies (& selves) to the work of the Lord that consecrates them.

how can we do this, but by the Cross! crucified with Him to the world & the flesh, and through Him all the word & the flesh crucified unto us.

this is why the Lord says:
"Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me"

What? Are you kidding? This verse does not teach that the cross of Christ is holy.
I am not to carry an actual cross. Do you think Jesus wants me to walk around lugging a cross. Ridiculous.
And the quote you post does not talk about the cross of Jesus. "Their cross." Do you see that?
So, here's what you're left with: You take up your cross. An actual wooden cross. Then you follow a cross, and actual wooden cross.

Me? I crucify myself, I resolve to cease from living for myself. That's my cross. And I follow Jesus. I give my life for Him.

 

[posthuman]

Matthew 14:34-36

" When they had crossed over, they came to the land of Gennesaret. And when the men of that place recognized Him, they sent out into all that surrounding region, brought to Him all who were sick, and begged Him that they might only touch the hem of His garment. And as many as touched it were made perfectly well. "

how is it that as many as touched the hem of His cloak were made whole?

more importantly, by faith in whom was this piece of cotton become such a holy thing to the afflicted?

it wasn't the dust the cross or the garment were made from that consecrated them, but the one that bore & wore them.

if we, too, are commanded to be holy, it is by nothing but the putting on of His righteousness that we can obey. and that, my brothers & sisters, is by the power of His work on the Cross and His resurrection from the grave.

 

[Delija]

The Romans crucified Jesus. Were the hands of the Romans holy? Were the Romans holy? Answer, please.
How about the nails. Are they holy?
How about the spit from the mockers. Is the spit holy?
How about Pilate? Is he holy?



The cross itself is not to be worshipped. It is not holy.

Again i tell u,u must search about the answers.U will find anything u need in the decisions of Ecumenical Councils.I think,because i have read it somewhere,that it was strongly said that part of Jesus body cannot be worshiped.I must search it and then tell u everything.

 

[Cobus]

IMO Cobus will never answer this question directly, but will hint around with an answer to suggest that he is. He believes it and wants others to believe it. He is good at long-winded expositions, but very poor at direct, simple answers. IMO that is because he is hiding from himself and the spirit in him won't let he speak the truth, i.e, to say that he is perfect, because if he did so the spirit of truth would call him a liar.

YES I AM ON THE WAY TO PERFECTION..... VERY DEFENATELY....

I will answer this with the Word of God. Let GOd answer you, and aain you can believe what you read or you can not. You did not believe Jesus, why would you believe me?

So here is my answer.....

I was born IMPURE because neither my father or my mother were holy. If one were holy I would have been born holy...
Then I developed in a very good sinner. A VERY good sinner that would give Saul a run for his money....Then at the age of 36.5 God CALLED me to the HIGH CALLING IN CHRIST....

I heard HIS CALLING and God sanctified and justified me as I followed Jesus with my cross... The Holy Spirit lead me out of EVERY SIN IN MY LIFE.... ALL this time I had this hope that God would make me HOLY AS HE IS HOLY... And God says.... And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Well the other morning God showed me we have reached this pureness now... Just as the Holy Spirit taught me about the sin I had to LAY DOWN, so the SAME Spirit now teach me these things... like typing this letter and what to type/// RIGHTEOUSNESS God calls it... Sin is done with, but is being replaced with righteousness...This is the WAY FORWARD TO PERFECTION....
The stage of NO MORE SIN is called SAINTSHIP. A SAINT is a person where the Holy Spirit finished the part of sin reproofing, and the Spirit now starts to teach about RIGHTEOUSNESS.... The Holy Spirit CANNOT teach this before HE and the CHRISTIAN is done with SIN!

So a SAINT IS FINISHED WITH THE CROSS, A SAINT IS DEAD TO SIN, but not yet alive to righteousness.... That comes a bit later... Eph 4 says... FOR THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS... So it is very clear I as SAINT are not perfect YET!!!! I stopped sinning and God even CONFIRMS THIS BY CALLNG ME SAINT IN EPH 4: 12. Even when you stop sinning God is NOT FINISHED WITH YOU YET....

When God perfect the SAINT, then that SAINT is joined to the BODY OF CHRIST... Only THEN DOES THE HOLY SPIRIT MOVE INTO THE FLESH OF THAT PERSON, AS AN ALL CONSUMING FULFILLING HOLY GHOST... Then the PERFECTION IS OBTAINED.

This once SINNER COBUS, is then made to BE LIKE JESUS, IN HIS FULNESS AND MEASURE... THe EXACT REPLICA OF THE SON OF GOD.... God says.... UNTO A PERFECT MAN.... So I guess and KNOW the next step of God's WORK ON ME, is the PERFECTING OF SAINT COBUS... UNTO A PERFECT MAN, to the SAME fulness as JESUS... I will never be Jesus, but it does not stop HIM TO BE ME....


May the PERFECT GOD show you the TRUTH In this essay, so you can KNOW.... GOD SENT JESUS!!!! Amen!