For my Dear Sisters in Christ

[kenisyes]

KENISYES. Send me one of your sermons and let me TEST the fruit with the Word of God. Prefirable one of you wifes... You still have my email.. record it with a cllphone and send as mp3 or something... PLEASEE!!!

We have been this route before. i don't collect sermons. My wife-to-be is not pastoring a church. You cannot test fruit by listening to a sermon, you can only give your opinion of what will happen, and fruit is what has happened. If we do not agree on interpretation of the passages we are discussing, you will not agree on passages in any sermons I send you. We have discussed all this before. You may go to the archives of the church she attends, and which I attend with my online fellowship group, and listen to the various women preachers who have come there, if you want to listen to someone. Then you may post how they are all evil, and you will ignore what is happening in the lives of the people themselves, because that is what you are looking for. That link is: Church Media

 

[haz]

I don't know any Christian husbands who use the Word of God unlawfully and are unloving tyrants.

In my 30 years as a Christian I likewise found similar to yourself.

Seems we each see different aspects of the community around us though.
Two feet sees aggressive domineering men almost everywhere.
My experience differs from two feet in that in feminist dominated Australia many women are aggressive and selfish, having been corrupted by feminist indoctrination over the past decades.

 

[p_rehbein]

We are all called to be evangelists. Can you show me the scripture where evangelists have more authority in the Church than an elder (i.e. bishop)?

Matthew 28:19 - 20........as well, it appears you do not understand the difference between "a church" and "the Church." A church is a local congregation where deacons and elders and Pastors serve......normally. The Church is the ENTIRE BODY OF BELIEVERS. Does that help?

Not all of them do.

so, when I said "tend to stick close to home," you didn't understand that?

I think I already clarified my position on the definition of preacher. Pastor/teachers who preach before the congregation are typically elders.

Point me towards a Scripture that says this?


You are using equivocation. I say women should not be in the position of elder in the church. I am not saying women do not age.

1st Timothy 5:1-3, do you understand what is being said?

1 Timothy 3: 1 - 7 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Great, we now know the description of a "Bishop." That is not the definition of "elder." See, Bishop is spelled B-I-S-H-O-P, and elder is spelled e-l-d-e-r. ")


Why don't you point me to a scripture that justifies your position? I don't believe there is one.

Why don't you point me to a scripture that "disproves" my position? Eh? Sometimes common sense has to be activated.

But, shoot, since it's you, why not?
Ephesians 4:11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 .) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Evangelists don't need to be ordained. Once we are baptised, evangelism becomes our duty.

Got a scripture for this? and Matthew 28:19-20 won't apply.....however as the call to Evangelism is a gift from the Holy Spirit, I would say that certainly qualifies as being Ordained........just as Preacher......and while your church may not Ordain Pastors, Evangelists, that does not mean all churches don't.

And some states give sodomites marriage certificates. It doesn't make it right, nor even a marriage.

And this is simply a sad and shameless attack on people of God.....but, I fear you may know no shame. Or, possibly, because every argument you have put forward, I have defeated, so this kind of garbage is out of frustration. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Christian love and fellowship are you?

How so? Which scripture says women are not permitted to own or read bibles?

Do you even read the Bible? 1st Corinthians 14:34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 .) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Kind of sad when I have to not only make MY argument, but make yours for YOU as well. Try reading the Bible.....seriously. Do you understand these scriptures? The clear implication IS that a woman is to ASK HER HUSBAND, not STUDY THE WORD.


I note that you had a lot to say in your recent post, but I also note you didn't tend to back up these beliefs with scripture. If you want to convince me of something, you will need to convince me that this is what God says (through scripture).

Seriously? Every position I have taken, I have backed up with Scripture. Maybe not in that exact post.........but in prior or latter posts......And IF I post a comment that IS MY OPINON and not meant to be Biblical, I SAY SO......do you? I don't WANT to convince you of anything, what I WANT is to assure that others who may venture by and read these comments have some idea of what Scripture says, and what it means.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

In my 30 years as a Christian I likewise found similar to yourself.

Seems we each see different aspects of the community around us though.
Two feet sees aggressive domineering men almost everywhere.
My experience differs from two feet in that in feminist dominated Australia many women are aggressive and selfish, having been corrupted by feminist indoctrination over the past decades.

I think it's how you interpret life, Haz. Feminists are indoctrinated to think they've always been hard-done by, and will always insist on taking more and more. These people can't be satisfied, because the problem is not with men, and never was, the problem lies within the feminists themselves.

The true purpose of feminism was never "equal rights" for women, but the destruction of the family, and erosion of the role of men as society's leaders. I think it was funded by the communists, because strong families and male headship were significant obstacles to exploitation of the people. You see feminism running rife today, families destroyed, too many men who can't or aren't permitted to lead. Mission accomplished, I think. The next phase - exploitation of everyone - is already underway.

 

[p_rehbein]

I think it's how you interpret life, Haz. Feminists are indoctrinated to think they've always been hard-done by, and will always insist on taking more and more. These people can't be satisfied, because the problem is not with men, and never was, the problem lies within the feminists themselves.

The true purpose of feminism was never "equal rights" for women, but the destruction of the family, and erosion of the role of men as society's leaders. I think it was funded by the communists, because strong families and male headship were significant obstacles to exploitation of the people. You see feminism running rife today, families destroyed, too many men who can't or aren't permitted to lead. Mission accomplished, I think. The next phase - exploitation of everyone - is already underway.

While I do not agree or approve of the "feminist movement," it is clear to me that you extend their wrong doings to any and all women or men who disagree with your theological ideology........In truth, this disdain you exhibit towards women lessens any credibility you might otherwise have.

And you still have failed to answer many of the questions I have posed to you. Any particular reason?

Well, let's try some simple ones:

1) What church/denomination do you belong to/attend?
2) Do the women who belong/attend keep in strict compliance with Scripture?
3) Does your wife OWN a Bible, or ever read/study the Word?
4) Do you INSTRUCT your wife in the Word of God?

That should get us started..........

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

While I do not agree or approve of the "feminist movement," it is clear to me that you extend their wrong doings to any and all women or men who disagree with your theological ideology........In truth, this disdain you exhibit towards women lessens any credibility you might otherwise have.

I don't say what I say for the sake of my credibility. I say what I say because it is the truth. If you don't accept the truth when I speak it, your decision is between you and God.

And you still have failed to answer many of the questions I have posed to you. Any particular reason?

Well, let's try some simple ones:

1) What church/denomination do you belong to/attend?
2) Do the women who belong/attend keep in strict compliance with Scripture?
3) Does your wife OWN a Bible, or ever read/study the Word?
4) Do you INSTRUCT your wife in the Word of God?

That should get us started..........

I don't answer to you, and neither do I intend to. If you can't obey God for something as simple as women in church offices, I can't see how you would be able to determine more spiritual matters (I bold formatted the verse that I believe applies to you).

1 Corinthians 14:34 - 37 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

 

[p_rehbein]

I don't say what I say for the sake of my credibility. I say what I say because it is the truth. If you don't accept the truth when I speak it, your decision is between you and God.

I don't answer to you, and neither do I intend to. If you can't obey God for something as simple as women in church offices, I can't see how you would be able to determine more spiritual matters (I bold formatted the verse that I believe applies to you).

1 Corinthians 14:34 - 37 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

.......and so you avoid answering......well, that is normal for those who subscribe to your ideology......

You DID get one thing right though.........you stated: "I say what I say because it is the truth. If you don't accept the truth when I speak it, your decision is between you and God."

I do not accept what YOU say as TRUTH.......why should I? I have His TRUTH.....

I wonder, does your wife know you are posting these comments on the internet?

 

[twofeet]

Whilst I acknowledge you are focusing on one specific issue, you are doing so in the context of societies badly damaged by the efforts of feminism over the past decades. The continual feminist mantra that women are innocent victims and men are evil perpetrators, is even implied in your posts. The feminist cry that it's all the man's fault and women are innocent victims, is a recognized propaganda tactic. The alleged perpetrator is then supposed to submit in some way and make reparations to the alleged victim.

You said below:


Note here how your focus is on men being at fault and women being the innocent victims.

I would suggest it would have been more accurate to acknowledge that in this fallen world there is going to be a lot of twisting going on that affects all humanity regardless of gender.

If we want the truth we should turn to Christ, our teacher. Yet how many of us truly turn to Christ for understanding?
1John 2:27
But the anointing (Christ in us) which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.



Again we see your claim that it's all the man's fault, which is consistent with the feminist mantra.

Here in feminist dominated Australia I rarely see these domineering husbands that you constantly make issue with. Even our ex-prime minister Kevin Rudd (noted for his abusively domineering leadership style and egotism) was also noted for being almost a mouse when at home with his domineering wife.

I see that there are too many worldly influences (feminism, etc) amongst Christians that is derailing our efforts to receive spiritual understanding.

We, the church, submit to Christ, the husband (Eph 5).
Let this be our example and submit one to another.

I see you think it is ok for men then to do the same and continue in the same attitude towards women and women are not ALLOWED to correct such error to bring BALANCE?

 

[twofeet]

In my 30 years as a Christian I likewise found similar to yourself.

Seems we each see different aspects of the community around us though.
Two feet sees aggressive domineering men almost everywhere.
My experience differs from two feet in that in feminist dominated Australia many women are aggressive and selfish, having been corrupted by feminist indoctrination over the past decades.

I do not see them everywhere, as I have said a number of times on this thread I have been blessed to be surrounded by the opposite. This thread is to ADDRESS such men that walk this line. There is a big difference.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

We are all called to be evangelists. Can you show me the scripture where evangelists have more authority in the Church than an elder (i.e. bishop)?
Matthew 28:19 - 20........
This scripture says nothing about evangelists having more authority in the Church than an elder.

as well, it appears you do not understand the difference between "a church" and "the Church." A church is a local congregation where deacons and elders and Pastors serve......normally. The Church is the ENTIRE BODY OF BELIEVERS. Does that help?
I'm not sure how this is relevant. Does my use of "the Church" as opposed to "a church" invalidate my argument? Is not "the Church" composed of many churches of believers?

Not all of them do.
so, when I said "tend to stick close to home," you didn't understand that?
I like to be precise.

I think I already clarified my position on the definition of preacher. Pastor/teachers who preach before the congregation are typically elders.
Point me towards a Scripture that says this?
I already did. See below. 1 Timothy 3: 1 - 7.

You are using equivocation. I say women should not be in the position of elder in the church. I am not saying women do not age.
1st Timothy 5:1-3, do you understand what is being said?
Paul is talking about how to treat fellow believers based on their age.

1 Timothy 3: 1 - 7 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
Great, we now know the description of a "Bishop." That is not the definition of "elder." See, Bishop is spelled B-I-S-H-O-P, and elder is spelled e-l-d-e-r. ")
Do you understand what equivocation is? Because you're using it again. You are changing the meaning of the word "elder" mid-argument. As a position of authority in the church, an elder is the same as a bishop.

Why don't you point me to a scripture that justifies your position? I don't believe there is one.
Why don't you point me to a scripture that "disproves" my position? Eh? Sometimes common sense has to be activated.
But, shoot, since it's you, why not?
Ephesians 4:11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 .) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Well, Ephesians 4:11 is certainly a scripture. But it doesn't justify your position.

Evangelists don't need to be ordained. Once we are baptised, evangelism becomes our duty.
Got a scripture for this? and Matthew 28:19-20 won't apply.....however as the call to Evangelism is a gift from the Holy Spirit, I would say that certainly qualifies as being Ordained........just as Preacher......and while your church may not Ordain Pastors, Evangelists, that does not mean all churches don't.
Why do you think Matthew 28:19 - 20 doesn't apply?

And some states give sodomites marriage certificates. It doesn't make it right, nor even a marriage.
And this is simply a sad and shameless attack on people of God.....but, I fear you may know no shame. Or, possibly, because every argument you have put forward, I have defeated, so this kind of garbage is out of frustration. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Christian love and fellowship are you?
It is simply a statement of logic and truth. Why are you becoming so emotional about this?

How so? Which scripture says women are not permitted to own or read bibles?
Do you even read the Bible? 1st Corinthians 14:34) Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 .) And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Sorry, I never saw anything there about not reading bibles. Are you being serious?

Kind of sad when I have to not only make MY argument, but make yours for YOU as well. Try reading the Bible.....seriously. Do you understand these scriptures? The clear implication IS that a woman is to ASK HER HUSBAND, not STUDY THE WORD.
The implication is that she speak not during the gathering of the church, not refrain from reading the Word.
I note that you had a lot to say in your recent post, but I also note you didn't tend to back up these beliefs with scripture. If you want to convince me of something, you will need to convince me that this is what God says (through scripture).

Seriously? Every position I have taken, I have backed up with Scripture. Maybe not in that exact post.........but in prior or latter posts......And IF I post a comment that IS MY OPINON and not meant to be Biblical, I SAY SO......do you? I don't WANT to convince you of anything, what I WANT is to assure that others who may venture by and read these comments have some idea of what Scripture says, and what it means.
You should probably try to be a little methodological in your posting, then. I'm not trying to insult you, but some has been a little slapstick.

 

[p_rehbein]

in truth it seems it is you who is not being serious........well, maybe you are, but that would be sad.

What is clear is you do not seem to understand the difference between the carnal Christian and the spiritual Christian. And it is clear that your understanding of Scripture is still on the level of the carnal Christian........

Do you know the difference between saved and sanctified? Might be we need to start from the beginning, rather than to delve right into the "meat" of His Word.......or, we could just agree to disagree, makes no matter to me.....

Still, not much sense in discussing His Word if you are unable to answer the four questions I posed.......

 

[p_rehbein]

QUOTED:

And some states give sodomites marriage certificates. It doesn't make it right, nor even a marriage.
And this is simply a sad and shameless attack on people of God.....but, I fear you may know no shame. Or, possibly, because every argument you have put forward, I have defeated, so this kind of garbage is out of frustration. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of Christian love and fellowship are you?
It is simply a statement of logic and truth. Why are you becoming so emotional about this?

END QUOTED:

If you are truly that ignorant, there really is no sense in speaking with you......so, declare once and for everyone here:

Do you believe that those Christians who accept and agree with women being in the Ministry to be on the same level as sodomites? Yes or no........
[h=2]sod·om·ite[/h] noun \-ˌmīt\ : a person who has anal sex with another person : someone who practices sodomy

Seriously,

Emotional? No, uh, er, well, I suppose "sadness" is an emotion, and reading your comments only causes me sadness.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

in truth it seems it is you who is not being serious........well, maybe you are, but that would be sad.

What is clear is you do not seem to understand the difference between the carnal Christian and the spiritual Christian. And it is clear that your understanding of Scripture is still on the level of the carnal Christian........

Do you know the difference between saved and sanctified? Might be we need to start from the beginning, rather than to delve right into the "meat" of His Word.......or, we could just agree to disagree, makes no matter to me.....

Still, not much sense in discussing His Word if you are unable to answer the four questions I posed.......

It's probably better we agree to disagree. You came across quite emotional in your other post, and I was certainly not trying to upset you. I understand some feminist women can get upset about God's view on feminism, but I'm not used to encountering this in other men. I thought from your initial post that you might have genuinely misunderstood scriptures, but it seems either you (or your church leaders) are deliberate in the choices they've made.

As I stated before, one of my criteria for assessing those who would call themselves spiritual is the same as Paul's. If those who call themselves spiritual don't accept Paul's word, I don't accept theirs.

1 Corinthians 14:34 - 37 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

 

[p_rehbein]

We certainly agree to disagree, and yet you will not answer my question..........do you equate Christians who disagree with you to being sodomites? Simple question really.........and it is your comparison that you stated earlier.

And yet you refuse to state that you put Paul's words/teaching into practice.........? wonder why?

Emotional? Seriously, is that the best you can come up with?

 

[p_rehbein]

........crickets..........well, actually I don't need an answer from you, after all I have your prior comments to show what you believe.......and they speak volumes........

Surely your words justify that you are not worth fellowshipping and discussing His Word with........any who would speak of fellow Christians in such a way, cause great sadness..........

I bid you adieu.........and may the Holy Spirit find you seeking His indwelling presence.....

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

Sorry - I thought our conversation was over with agreeing to disagree - only saw your posts then.

do you equate Christians who disagree with you to being sodomites?

Certainly not. I was just using an extreme example to show that just because someone can do something, or claim to do something, doesn't make it right, and doesn't really mean he can.

With the other points, I don't really want to get into a debate because I think the scriptures already quoted are fairly clear. We can either accept what the scriptures say, or the desires of the flesh. I think we both understand what the scriptures say, and have already made our decisions on who we will obey.

 

[Cobus]

We have been this route before. i don't collect sermons. My wife-to-be is not pastoring a church. You cannot test fruit by listening to a sermon, you can only give your opinion of what will happen, and fruit is what has happened. If we do not agree on interpretation of the passages we are discussing, you will not agree on passages in any sermons I send you. We have discussed all this before. You may go to the archives of the church she attends, and which I attend with my online fellowship group, and listen to the various women preachers who have come there, if you want to listen to someone. Then you may post how they are all evil, and you will ignore what is happening in the lives of the people themselves, because that is what you are looking for. That link is: Church Media

Oh you are AGAIN mistaken... The mouth runneth over what is in the heart, and the HEART IS THE TREE THAT BARES FRUIT,...
You see KENISYES, What I teach is ALL over this exact forum, WITHOUT the knowledge of GREEK I can quote the Bible of the KJV, and make shame to ANY person the contradict that scripture... The DOCTRINE I preach does not FAIL A SINGLE VERSE... yours clash just about on EVERY page of the Word...

Be sure of this fact.... GOD WILL NEVER HAVE A WOMAN PREACH IN ANY CHURCH HE IS THE HEAD OF. I know they may in Kenisyes churches, but so what, they also preach in Satan's churches... In God's churches there are enough men to do ALL the Offices of the church.... God will soon have a choir of 144000 MEN! Undefiled be WOMEN.... WOW! Why not a SINGLE woman, KEN.... God has to be SEXIST is He not? NO HE IS NOT!!!! We are pushing the sex issue WITHOUT God's PURPOSE for the two sexes... Ken you are not in Truth, and NO GOOD fruit can come from FALSE DOCTRINE...

God uses PERFECT MEN in HIS CHURCH. God has NEVER used even the most filled Spirited lady as a TEACHER.... Mary was very selected, lady to bear the Son, but she did not even know what He was about... Jesus said to her... How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
AND THEY UNDERSTOOD NOT THE SAYING WHICH HE SPAKE UNTO THEM.... I wonder why? Same reason as today? Why you cannot understand the simple command..... LET THOU WOMAN BE SILENT IN CHURCH... Do you understand that English words. without twising them? NOPE. it does not suit you ways so we will READ SOMETHING ELSE IN THAT... I DO NOT!

 

[Misty77]

I do not see them everywhere, as I have said a number of times on this thread I have been blessed to be surrounded by the opposite. This thread is to ADDRESS such men that walk this line. There is a big difference.

Sorry your really awesome thread got hijacked by the sexist crazies. Do you read books by Carolyn Custis James?

 

[secularhermit]

Well! "“wives submit to your husbands” Paul´s teachings are taken the way they better fills in my needs (as others´). That article shows the female bias as men shows their masculine convenience and TWOFEET is right at some extent: LOVE IS FREE. You cling to those YOU LIKE freely and God forces NO ONE (see Jesus could have aborted the crucifixtion schemes) if He wnated (just to compare LOVE is FREE and can be freed) (same way we split from the Christian faith to do what pleases us, to be eternally lost).

Did Adam punched Eve eye in the Garden? (He blamed God, instead, because Eve was (is) self-willed)

I like the way some Chruches behave, as Synagogues... Time will tell who was right!

 

[jonathanbchristian]

So lets clarify. All you women believe no one should have authority in marriage? You are not going to tell your husband what to do? Just a quick poll, how many ofyou have never told your husband what to do?