THE CROSS

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Seriously? and you consider these to be our "Holy Fathers?" Do you believe in Jesus?

Matthew 23:9) And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
P. rehbein,
It's no use. They do not believe in the Bible, in God, in Jesus. I've been responding to their idolatrous worship of the cross. I realize this has become a platform for them to be able to teach their anti-God, anti-Christ, anti-Bible, anti-American rhetoric.
The more you respond to their rhetoric, the more garbage and hate they spew out.

Not only that, they have some posts from their fellow muslims that are written in some foreign type of gibberish. The rules of this site, Christian Chat, say that we are to use English. I am not surprised by these muslums not following that rule.
If they can't follow the Lord's command alone to not worship idols, then why should I or anyone else expect them to want to follow the rules of this site.

It's a shame that they are allowed to use this format to promote their hate and anti Bible, anti God, anti Christ, anti American rhetoric.

Probably best just to let their words to all the speaking. Most, if not all, readers will see they are idolatrous folks who are full of hate and venom.
 
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I just have called the things with its name.Let we been open and honest.Truth harm those who prevail in lie.
 
Delija, I cannot read books on people outside the Bible.... You see we trust our Bibles to be the HOLY SPIRIT INFLUENCED WORD OF GOD... If any person try to teach us different, we will put that person to the TEST... Like we did you... And because you are not HOLY, you fall short of the glory of God, and we now have to know, YOU CANNOT SPEAK GOD'S WORD...

So everything you say on a CHRISTIAN SITE, God wants his disciples, saints and PERFECT MEN, to put your doctrine to the test against the Doctrine the BIBLE teach... And my friend your doctrine falls way short...

You see you believe to much what other people say AGAINST SCRIPTURE... so Rather put your faith and doctrine to God's Word, you adopt what other people say... That is just FATAL... I will believe EVERY Word another says, if he speaks in PERFECT harmony with the Word of God... If ONE of his doctrine teachings is taking the OFF the Word of God,,, I will reject it as if ALL he said is false, and ONLY KEEP THE TRUTH IN THE WORD...

I have tested the Word of God now for 15 years, and the Word has not failed ONCE,... NOT ONCE... Jesus is the God and the ONLY TRUTH OF GOD...

NO group has SOLE POSSESION OF GOD'S Thuth, God gives it to whomever WANTS TO KNOW THE TRUTH,.... He gives it in FULL, and if a person does not believe it, THE TRUTH WILL NOT STICK... OBVIOUSLY YOU DO NOT BELIEVE.... BE PERFECT, so why should it stick for you TO KNOW IT...

God gave it, you rejected it... BYE BYE TRUTH!

Cobus, I posted this p rehbein. You ought to consider it (Don't respond to them. They are using this place to promote not God or truth but their history. It's not about God, its about them and their history and their culture, such a shame) Here's the post: :
P.rehbein,
It's no use. They do not believe in the Bible, in God, in Jesus. I've been responding to their idolatrous worship of the cross. I realize this has become a platform for them to be able to teach their anti-God, anti-Christ, anti-Bible, anti-American rhetoric.
The more you respond to their rhetoric, the more garbage and hate they spew out.

Not only that, they have some posts from their fellow muslims that are written in some foreign type of gibberish. The rules of this site, Christian Chat, say that we are to use English. I am not surprised by these muslums not following that rule.
If they can't follow the Lord's command alone to not worship idols, then why should I or anyone else expect them to want to follow the rules of this site.

It's a shame that they are allowed to use this format to promote their hate and anti Bible, anti God, anti Christ, anti American rhetoric.

Probably best just to let their words do all the speaking. Most, if not all, readers will see they are idolatrous folks who are full of hate and venom.
 
Papism as the Oldest Protestantism
by the Blessed Fr. Justin (Popovich)
What are, on the other hand, the fruits of the God-Man society [the Church]?—Saints, Martyrs, and Confessors. That is its goal, that is its meaning and design, that is the proof of its indestructible strength. Not books and libraries, systems and cities—all things that are here today and gone tomorrow. The various pseudo- Christian humanisms fill the world with books, while Orthodoxy fills it with the hallowed.
 
In the European West, Christianity has gradually transformed into humanism. For a long time and arduously, the God-Man diminished, and has been changed, narrowed, and finally reduced to a man: to the infallible man in Rome and the equally "infallible" man in London and Berlin. Thus did papism come into being, taking everything from Christ, along with Protestantism, which asks the least from Christ, and often nothing. Both in papism and in Protestantism, man has been put in the place of the God-Man, both as the highest value and as the highest criterion. A painful and sad correction of the God-Man's work and teaching has been accomplished. Steadily and stubbornly papism has tried to substitute the God- Man with man, until in the dogma about the infallibility of the pope—a man, the God-Man was once and for all replaced with ephemeral, "infallible" man; because with this dogma, the pope was decisively and clearly declared as something higher than not only man, but the holy Apostles, the holy Fathers, and the holy Ecumenical councils. With this kind of a departure from the God-Man, from the ecumenical Church as the God-Man organism, papism surpassed Luther, the founder of Protestantism. Thus, the first radical protest in the name of humanism against the God- Man Christ, and his God-Man organism —the Church—should be looked for in papism, not in Lutheranism. Papism is actually the first and the oldest Protestantism. We should not do this ourselves. Papism indeed is the most radical Protestantism, because it has transferred the foundation of Christianity from the eternal God-Man to ephemeral man. And it has proclaimed this as the paramount dogma, which means: the paramount value, the paramount measure of all beings and things in the world. And the Protestants merely accepted this dogma in its essence, and worked it out in terrifying magnitude and detail. Essentially, Protestantism is nothing other than a generally applied papism. For in Protestantism, the fundamental principle of papism is brought to life by each man individually. After the example of the infallible man in Rome, each Protestant is a cloned infallible man, because he pretends to personal infallibility in matters of faith. It can be said: Protestantism is a vulgarized papism, only stripped of mystery (i.e., sacramentality), authority and power.
 
In the European West, Christianity has gradually transformed into humanism. For a long time and arduously, the God-Man diminished, and has been changed, narrowed, and finally reduced to a man: to the infallible man in Rome and the equally "infallible" man in London and Berlin. Thus did papism come into being, taking everything from Christ, along with Protestantism, which asks the least from Christ, and often nothing. Both in papism and in Protestantism, man has been put in the place of the God-Man, both as the highest value and as the highest criterion. A painful and sad correction of the God-Man's work and teaching has been accomplished. Steadily and stubbornly papism has tried to substitute the God- Man with man, until in the dogma about the infallibility of the pope—a man, the God-Man was once and for all replaced with ephemeral, "infallible" man; because with this dogma, the pope was decisively and clearly declared as something higher than not only man, but the holy Apostles, the holy Fathers, and the holy Ecumenical councils. With this kind of a departure from the God-Man, from the ecumenical Church as the God-Man organism, papism surpassed Luther, the founder of Protestantism. Thus, the first radical protest in the name of humanism against the God- Man Christ, and his God-Man organism —the Church—should be looked for in papism, not in Lutheranism. Papism is actually the first and the oldest Protestantism. We should not do this ourselves. Papism indeed is the most radical Protestantism, because it has transferred the foundation of Christianity from the eternal God-Man to ephemeral man. And it has proclaimed this as the paramount dogma, which means: the paramount value, the paramount measure of all beings and things in the world. And the Protestants merely accepted this dogma in its essence, and worked it out in terrifying magnitude and detail. Essentially, Protestantism is nothing other than a generally applied papism. For in Protestantism, the fundamental principle of papism is brought to life by each man individually. After the example of the infallible man in Rome, each Protestant is a cloned infallible man, because he pretends to personal infallibility in matters of faith. It can be said: Protestantism is a vulgarized papism, only stripped of mystery (i.e., sacramentality), authority and power.

Wow, good synopsis I applaud you. Try pentecostals, although not as many know as there used be, but still preach the cross and sing the old song leaning on the everlasting arms and realise how much man still needs the cross.
 

Making the cross or whatever Jesus died on is Idolatry.

Nowhere in the Bible does it make this pagan symbol holy.

To the contrary, the scriptures speak against it, continually. It must be part of our sinful inclination.

Throughout Bible history, starting in Genesis, pagan and false religious symbols were incorporated in worship of God, this caused the loss of His favor.

Why can't worshipers of God stop doing this?

Rachel stole her fathers teraphim which is some type of idol image.
Genesis 31:19

The Golden Calf that was made while Moses was on Mt Sinai and named after God.
Exodus 32:1-8

They were told to remove the false gods.

Joshua 24:14

Israelites had sacred poles, worshiped Baal, god of good luck and more.

A few New Testament references.

1 John 5:21 - Little children, guard yourselves from idols.

1 Corinthians 10:14 - Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from idolatry.

Colossians 3:5; 2:18; Acts 10:23-27; Revelation 21:8; 22:14,15


 
It is the power of God! The cross to the unbelievers is foolishness, but to us believers it is the power of God .
 
I know the cross offends many people and unfortunately, many pastors especially those in the spotlight. There are some who hold church in basketball stadiums and never mention the cross nor have altar calls nor provide a time for sinners to come to the cross. The cross is our only hope, why do modern pastors tell us different. Just be good and do good things. Clearly the new testament and the old points to the cross as the only means that a man(or woman) can be reconciled to God. Why do these pastor portray a different gospel than the bible.
 
Kerry I promise you the cross does not offend me, but I despise how people use the cross of Jesus s an excuse to keep in sin...Sinners are from satan, not from the cross... People that passed through the cross SIN NO MORE... The cross is there CLEANSING, and the RESURRECTION is there LIFE...

How can a person obtain a NEW life without DYING ON THE CROSS? You have to DIE AT THE CROSS... not make the cross your GOD! God died on a cross... A cross is a CURSED thing. Jesus became the CURSE FOR ME... I CURSED Jesis right onto the cross with my sin. If nobody sinned, Jesus would not have been on a cross.... Sin and CROSS is synanomous. But! Jeuss did not stay on the cross..... HE MOVED ON. and HE EXPECTS YOU TO MOVE ON...

There is LIFE beyond the cross...Do you know that the life beyond the cross has NO SIN IN THAT LIFE? Do you know that that life is given to you HERE ON EARTH... NO LATER.... NOW!!!

Here is the thing about people that believe their new life also is in sin.... ALL SIN NEEDS THE CROSS TO BE WASHED... but NO SIN IS FORGIVN if we DO NOT DIE IT OFF ON THE CROSS/...

There is NO forgiveness for sin UNREPENTED... And Repent means to even change your mind about the sin... So in stead of doing the sin, you should even HATE the sin in others, let alone yourself... And evry sin you repent from GOD WILL REMOVE FROM YOU... AS FAR AS THE EAST IS FROM THE WEST, AND NEVER THINK OF IT AGAIN... Hey God would not think of it again and he WILL CLEANCE YOUR CONSCIENCE so you will not think of it again...

God removes it so GOOD ..... YOU NEVER DONE THAT SIN... God is so good in salvation... Neither HE nor YOU will even know you did the sin.... That is how Good God cleanse.... The old sacrifice COULD NOT CLEAR THE CONSCIENCE... My conscience is so clean, I DID NOT SIN... Oh I have sinned, but I have NO GUILT,.... Absolutely NOTHING...

God says HIS BLOOD cleanse so well, that I will not be GUILTY,.... I am NOT GUILTY OF ANY SIN... my consciense is as pure as HIS... His blood cleansed me to be as PURE AS HIM... And now He is KEEPING ME FROM ALL EVIL... John 17.

And soon he will SEAL ME IN HIM AND USE THIS FLESH AS HE SEES FIT... Then it is HIM IN ME DOING ALL HE WANTS...
 
Delija the cross is the WASHING POWER, not the RESURRECTION POWER... the Resurrection power is AFTER THE CROSS... When God puts HIS SPIRIT IN YOU... God cannot put HIS SPIRIT IN A PERSON THAT NEEDS THE CROSS... Only people that PASSED through the power of the cross, can God give the Spirit too...
 
Cobus ,I would like to give you five across your lips. The cross is everything. There is nothing else. Regardless of what you have been taught. I love you Cobus, I am glad that you gave received Christ. But, I just cannot agree with with what you have been taught. The cross is everything.
 
God does not create a cross for man. No matter how heavy a cross a man may carry in life, it is still just wood, from which man himself made, and it always grows from the soil of his heart. St. Ambrose of Optina

Question: What does this mean: “Thy rod and Thy staff, they have comforted me” (Psalm 23:4)? Answer: The rod is the Cross, afflictions and the staff is the Jesus Prayer. The rod is the active part of virtue, and the staff is the noetic part. St. Ambrose of Optina

"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up" (John 3:14). And just exactly as all who were bitten by the serpents looked upon the bronze serpent which was suspended and were healed, thus also every Christian who believes in our Christ and has recourse to His life-bearing wounds, who eats His Flesh and drinks His all-holy Blood, is cured of the bits of the spiritual serpent of sin and by this most holy nourishment is made to live unto the renewal of a new creation, that is, new life in harmony with His life-giving commandments. Elder Ephraim of Philotheou Mount Athos, "Counsels from the Holy Mountain"

"The Cross, is wood which lifts us up and makes us great ... The Cross uprooted us from the depths of evil and elevated us to the summit of virtue". St John Chrysostom

The holy Fathers relate that when the thief of the Gospel, too, came to the gates of the Kingdom, the Archangel with the flaming sword wanted to chase him away, but he showed him the Cross. Immediately the fire-bearing Archangel himself withdrew and permitted the thief to enter. Understand here not the wooden cross. But which? The Cross in which the chief Apostle Paul boasts and concerning which he writes, 'I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus (Gal. 6:17).' St. Anatoly of Optina
 
Kerry here is the TRUTH.... No person is a NEW PERSON IN GOD without PASSING THROUGH THE CROSS....

In the shortest sentance to explain the Cross, this is it. 100% provable with scripture...

THE CROSS OF JESUS IS THE END OF THE OLD SINNNG MAN, AND THE BEGINNING OF THE PERFECT MAN IN CHRIST.

The cross is the PASSOVER! THe cross is the MARROW GATE TO PASS THROUGH... On the one side is SIN and all there has to pass through. On the Other side is HOLINESS and GOD and HIS CHILDREN... They have ARRIVED! They are the PERFECT MAN IN CHRIST... because they PASSED THROUGH THE CROSS... DONE!
 
It is impossible to live for God without the cross. Why are you so obtuse about it. what is that the cross offends you. Come on Cobus I love man.
 
He understand Cross as idolatory.

No, the cross is a symbol of what Jesus Christ did for humanity. It's not idolatry unless you worship the cross itself. Kerry isn't advocating that Christians should worship the cross but that they should worship Christ for who he is and what he did on the cross. Come to him as you are, offer your burdens to him and receive his forgiveness.
 
Cobus is right.

at the Cross we were shown Mercy - His atonement.

at the empty tomb we are given Grace - His penultimate redemption.

no one comes to God except they come through Christ, and no one follows Christ unless they themselves are crucified with him to the world, and sin, crucified to him. Christ is the door to the sheepfold, and the hinges are bolted on one side to that old rugged cross and on the other to that vacant tomb.

when we aren't walking in the light, we are walking in darkness, dead men. but God is the God of the living, and He has given us new life, eternal. we may yet dance with this putrid corpse of our old selves, but it will be burned away, and what remains is the new creation, the mystery of God revealed in the church.
is that some reason to go on sinning, because the old things have passed away and will one day be no more? of course not! it is all the more reason to set aside the things of our old lives enslaved to sin. to continue in it now is living a lie, and no one who has the Spirit of God in him can continue living in such a way without denying the conviction of the Holy Ghost.
the old man is utter rubbish, and the new man is pure & righteous before God - not righteous because of our own sake, but having been washed in His blood we wear Christ like a warm, winter coat against the cold night-breezes of our once wicked lives.
" What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. "
Philippians 3:8-9


i don't understand why this thread is full of such vitriol - i don't think anyone here bows to a wooden idol in the shape of a t.

do you guys go around to churches and accost believers with uplifted hands in worship service, telling them they are idolizing the ceiling?

well, maybe i do know what's been going on here. lord inquisitor has since been banned, but give Titus 1:15 some thought:
"To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
"

the gospel is this: Jesus the Christ, and Him crucified & resurrected the third day.

can that be separated from the work of the cross?

now i know that many of you are making accusations here because you hate idolatry, which is great - that is love for God - but at the expense of the faith of your brothers and sisters?
2 Timothy 2:14
"
Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. "

you all agree that the Lord is God, that He was sent by the Father to this earth to become a sacrifice for the sin of the world, that He gave Himself up to the death on the cross as a propitiation for our sin, that He was buried and rose again on the third day, that He has given us the promise and the foretaste of the indwelling of the Holy Ghost, and that without believing on this gospel, we are utterly, vacuously lost. why shouldn't we talk about that instead and magnify this wonderful work of redemption?? are we here to tempt God?
Judge with righteous judgement. (John 7:24)


 
As you contemplate the faggots [that Isaac was laid upon] reflect on the cross. As you look on the fire, meditate on the love. 102.Look too on the sheep hanged by its two horns on the plant that is called ‘Sabek’.
103.Look too on Christ, the Lamb of God, hanged by his two hands upon a Cross.
104.The plant called Sabek means ‘forgiveness’, for it saved from slaughter the old man’s child,
105.It foreshadows the cross that forgives the world its sins and grants it life.
106.The ram hanging on the Sabek plant mystically redeemed Isaac alone,
107.While the Lamb of God hanged on the cross delivered the world from Death and Hell. St Ephrem the Syrian
 
Cobus is wrong my friend. You are just as capable of sin as when you got saved. Don't tell anyone bu when yu got saved there were still things that you did and didn't want folks to know about it. Yeah come on, why hid it it will all come out in the end.