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i agree with what he says there in what i guess we can call an existential sense. obviously, here we are, full of strife & vanity; we're not living perfect lives. how can we be told "confess your sins" if we presuppose we sin no more?
but reconcile that with this?
1 John 3:1-9
" See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him.
Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure. Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin.
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him.
Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous.
Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.
By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother. "
this isn't an easy concept to wrap ones head around, and i think the confusion is stemming from the point of view we look at the question of our sin from. i think there's misunderstanding enough to go around.
consider the prodigal son - here is this self-exiled, washed-up amateur pig farmer, reprobate and sinful and eating leftover slop if he's lucky. in the world's eyes, in his own eyes, in his brother's eyes, he's steeped in sin & may as well be a pig himself. but what about in his fathers eyes?
or the thief on the cross. Christ told him he would be with Him in paradise - did anyone but Christ look at that guy being publicly executed and think "there's a holy man on his way to gloryland" ? but how could he enter the kingdom, unless he was spotless?
God's grace is so profoundly great !!!
what does forgiveness really mean? what is meant when it is said "as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us" ?
i'm not pretending to understand the depths of His love. i do think Corbus is on to something truly wonderful though, in spirit, that is barely comprehensible in it's glory.
i'd like to sit down for coffee with him, & you too Tintin, see if we can't plumb some more of the riches of His love. i don't think we're all on totally different planets with this, just not really expressing it clearly.
K
Kerry
Guest
The cross is no mystery, It is the basis of christianity, The cross makes the means for you sanctification and not your works so your preacher teaches that is a lie. You are sanctified by your faith in the cross. I know you don't see it now, but that is the truth. Tell me something different and your purdy too
M
MidniteWelder
Guest
M
MidniteWelder
Guest
Can the cross, sanctify me
Can the cross purge me of my sin so that I am a new creation and a slave to righteousness as opposed to a salve to sin (such as making an idol out of an object)
Should I kneel before a cross and pray to it?
The cross was that days method of the death penalty,
If Chruist died by todays methods would you suggest that the gas chamber makes means for our sanctification?
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note the part in the garden where He prayed, "Nevertheless, not as I will, but thy will be done"
our debts were payed off at the cross, and at the empty tomb, He handed us the winning lottery ticket. without His standing in the gap for my sin & yours, the resurrection would mean nothing. i want not "a part" of Christ, but all !!
Kerry I also hope we can hunt together, there are MANY Americans come hunt here, and it is cheap for them to do so. Of coarse you will stay with me and we will go hunting wherever we want too...
Also it would be great to show you how love and peace in my home is a heavenly gift... I wanted to be the father of a GODLY HOME, and now I am... ALL my children will recieve you as they would Jesus, so would my wife and so would I. Last night we had supper vivitors,, the lady said she could feel the love and peace in the home and that she NEVER recieved such utter love in her life before...
I guess what God demans, God establish... God said we should be real hospitable to all, for we know not when we house angels...
Kerry you will not get people more loving than right there in my own home... You might find another alike, but not more... God's love is full in our home... When I am home with the family, I am in the Body of Christ Jesus...
Let me share with you one Truth,.. My oldest daughter sat for four years on her own every school break, because she did not want to choose between the two main groups of children in the school. Both groups were always fighting and talking bad to the other, and she refrained from choosin one wrong above the other wrong. Today she is still a GREAT faithful child.
And she was NEVER sad about this... She had teh blessing of a peacemaker, God said... Blessed are teh peacemakers for they shal be called the children of God.
I hope we come to agreement soon, and I think we will. God did not put us to meet from satan's sake.. but HIS
Also it would be great to show you how love and peace in my home is a heavenly gift... I wanted to be the father of a GODLY HOME, and now I am... ALL my children will recieve you as they would Jesus, so would my wife and so would I. Last night we had supper vivitors,, the lady said she could feel the love and peace in the home and that she NEVER recieved such utter love in her life before...
I guess what God demans, God establish... God said we should be real hospitable to all, for we know not when we house angels...
Kerry you will not get people more loving than right there in my own home... You might find another alike, but not more... God's love is full in our home... When I am home with the family, I am in the Body of Christ Jesus...
Let me share with you one Truth,.. My oldest daughter sat for four years on her own every school break, because she did not want to choose between the two main groups of children in the school. Both groups were always fighting and talking bad to the other, and she refrained from choosin one wrong above the other wrong. Today she is still a GREAT faithful child.
And she was NEVER sad about this... She had teh blessing of a peacemaker, God said... Blessed are teh peacemakers for they shal be called the children of God.
I hope we come to agreement soon, and I think we will. God did not put us to meet from satan's sake.. but HIS
M
MidniteWelder
Guest
Ummm, what do you suspect he was doing for the 3 days after he died while in the heart of the earth?
Do you feel that may have some significance in the whole big picture sceheme of things or does God every think on as small of scale as humans do?
The cross was the vehicle for which part of Gods will to be accomplished, as well as a very important display of Christ dying a criminals death when he did no wrong.
An example for us to follow that we not only may but will be persecuted as some of the most detestable beings in the face of the worldly. Yet we are Godly.
It was Christs LIFE, while he LIVED that he accomplished so much more in a display of Love in doing nothing of his own will.
How many could easily sacrifice one day or die for another?
We can see that in war by a man jumping on a grenade for his friends, a man or woman defending their own children.
But how many will live their entire life....as a living ....sacrifice...for another...Their whole life.
Now do you understand?
M
MidniteWelder
Guest
Yes, because it's contagious
It jumped out and grabbed my attention this morning
Anyhow, it was not the cross doing the breathing, but our Messiah who was crucified on a cross.
M
MidniteWelder
Guest
It jumped out and grabbed my attention this morning
Dontcha love it when it does that
Anyhow, it was not the cross doing the breathing, but our Messiah who was crucified on a cross.
That should sum it up right there loveme1
As well as this verse from John 16 I'd like to add.
7 But I tell you that I am going to do what is best for you. That is why I am going away. The Holy Spirit cannot come to help you until I leave. But after I am gone, I will send the Spirit to you.
8 The Spirit will come and show the people of this world the truth about sin and God’s justice and the judgment.
9 The Spirit will show them that they are wrong about sin,
because they didn’t have faith in me.
I see no credit given to a cross here.
How purdy am I now?
Death and Resurrection were part of God plan.And nothing could change that.God never could be in a prison where the souls of
man remained after death.
Christ is Risen from the dead, trampling down Death by death, and bestowing life to those in the tombs.
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That should sum it up right there loveme1
As well as this verse from John 16 I'd like to add.
7 But I tell you that I am going to do what is best for you. That is why I am going away. The Holy Spirit cannot come to help you until I leave. But after I am gone, I will send the Spirit to you.
8 The Spirit will come and show the people of this world the truth about sin and God’s justice and the judgment.
9 The Spirit will show them that they are wrong about sin,
because they didn’t have faith in me.
I see no credit given to a cross here.
How purdy am I now?
You are one "cheeky chappy" that is all i will say.
M
MidniteWelder
Guest
That's right, God couldnt...
because God couldnt stand to be in the presence of sin,
but as a man........different story huh?
it was a very intricate plan likely the devil didn't even see coming and was probably floored when Christ came and kicked the doors in and took the keys of death and hell away from satan.
There is,in Eastern Orthodox perspective,explanation what Christ done when He went to the spirits in prison.I have posted it in topic "Spirits in prison".
M
MidniteWelder
Guest
My friend may i show you WHY I believe that....
God said n mat 5:48... Be perfect... It would be hard to be perfect without being sinless...
And God says,,, Be Holy... ALso impossible to be holy while still sinning.
And God says.. All in Christ is a NEW CREATURE... ALL is made new.. and the OLD IS DEAD... so I guess God really does lay the old man down.
And I cannot find ONE verse in all the Bible that says I may commit sin and it is OK with God. I find the opposite ... SIN NOT...
I read about A NEW LIFE IN HIM, and IN HIM IS NO SIN.
I read that GOD said that HE REMOVES SIN FROM HIS PEOPLE.
I read that God makes Saints.. .sinless people.
I read that God takes Saints and make them Perfect.
I read that when the SEED of God is in a person that person CANNOT sin.
I read that the wicket cannot touch them.
I read that God Perfect ALL whom he chose to live as righteous as He is righteous.
I read God saves a sinner to be a righteous man, unto true holiness.
I read God gave the PERFECT ONENESS of God to all His children.
I read that God is the saviour of sinners UNTO A PERFECT MAN.
I read that God Recreates them ALL to the same measure as His Son Jesus... If that is not sinless and perfect, what is?
I read God even sanctif his people WHOLLY... whole soul spirit and body... right here on earth... Imagine God set you apart from ALL evil. Then God PRESERVE it unto the coming... PRESERVE MEANS TO KEEP IT AS IT IS.... Not make it then all holy... HE DID IT HERE AND PRESERVE IT UNTIL JESUS COMES....
Good Lord, You are TRULY FAITHFUL... Do this to TINTIN AS WELL PLEASE! Give him FAITH to believe YOU WORK THIS FOR YOUR HONOR, AMEN!
1 Thes 5:23 and 24....
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.