Which Jesus do you follow?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Aug 31, 2013
89
2
0
#1
The popular opinion of Jesus's(christian) gospel is that the doctrine he preached while alive is the same doctrine that carried on after his death and resurrection. But this is actually very erroneous thinking, There are actually two different christs, two personalities, two values, two different eras.

First there was the christ who came to fulfill the law (of Moses). The man Jesus, born of a virgin, he was the personification of the law, had perfect understanding of the law, lived and ultimately died as the law, and by dying as the law has rendered the law abolished. This was the christ that ended in death, just as the law ends in death. This jesus preached the same message of "thou shalt not..", spoke in parables and did not give understanding of scripture just like the law was a shadow(without understanding) of things(true christianity) to come.

Then there was (and still is) the christ who was born(resurrected) through the death of the first christ. This man no longer preaches the law but gives us absolute personal freedom from this law, we are no longer bound by the old interpretations and commandments of this law. This christ grants us absolute liberty to use and enjoy the riches of knowledge and experience of all creation, this christ makes us realize that there is absolutely no sin in anything God has created and declared to be good and fit for use by man, whether they be food, drink, knowledge, music, clothes, sex, etc, all things are meant for use and learning and to profit from. To them that believe, they cannot sin, just like God himself cannot sin by taking pleasure in his creation. There is no longer "thou shalt not..." for all things are sanctified for use.

Apostle Paul clearly preached the gospel of the second christ and ask us to hence forth disregard the old christ, for his era(the era of the law of sin and death) is gone, having been abolished by his death and he declares that we no longer abide by his lifestyle when he says:

Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh(human tradition, the law); even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.(2 Corinthians 5:16)[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif].[/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]So we no longer follow the Law's definition of right and wrong. Where the law had before ([/FONT]mis)judged and[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] forbade us from indulging/using our natural, God-given desires, curiosities and sensualities. Thus, our intellectual, spiritual and sensual attributes are no longer sins but are in fact righteous attributes and expectations. The law is absolutely abolished. [/FONT]
 

konroh

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2013
615
21
18
#2
James 2:8If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,” you are doing well. 9But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11For He who said, “DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,” also said, “DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

It would appear that we are bound by the law of liberty, but this doesn't mean that we disobey the law's commands, but rather fulfill them. Paul said the law is holy and righteous and good, it demonstrates our sin, but it also leads us to Christ.
 

pickles

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2009
14,479
182
63
#3
I dont know if I would say two Jesus's. :)
I know only one, who came to teach, then through sacrifice and resurection, became compleat.
For I am the way, the truth and the life, none can come to the Father except through me.
For by grace you have been saved, not of yourself, so no man may take pride in it.
I guess what Im trying to say here, is first we will see as though the mirror darkly, but when the perfect comes, we shall see face to face!
It is in face to face, that freedom is known! :)
Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh!!!!

God bless
pickles
 
Jul 26, 2013
1,451
5
0
#4
James 2:8If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,” you are doing well. 9But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11For He who said, “DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,” also said, “DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

It would appear that we are bound by the law of liberty, but this doesn't mean that we disobey the law's commands, but rather fulfill them. Paul said the law is holy and righteous and good, it demonstrates our sin, but it also leads us to Christ.
The law of liberty is that of love. Can the circumcised love the uncircumcised as they do themselves? If not, then we are simply building upon what was destroyed.
 
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#5
This jesus preached the same message of "thou shalt not..", spoke in parables and did not give understanding of scripture just like the law was a shadow(without understanding) of things(true christianity) to come. /QUOTE okeyxyz

This is certainly not scripture and spoke in parables and did not give understanding? Then why did the S & P want to kill Him so badly if they didn't understand? And the law was a shadow without understanding? Where did you learn that from? Don't know what you read as God's word, but you apparently aren't getting anything useful out of it.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,089
190
63
#6
The Messiah said those that Keep His Commands are they that love Him.

1 Corinthians 7

17But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. 18Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. 19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.21Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. 22For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. 23Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. 24Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.
Paul relays the message of the Messiah that we should Keep the Commandments.

Paul is accused of much but the error comes when individuals simply do not make their foundation on the Words of the Messiah.

It is the Testimony of the Messiah that gives eternal life.

Tell me which of the 10 Commandments would be broken if we Keep the Great and the second like it?



If one believes that Paul is not witnessing of the Messiah Yahshua Son of GOD, He that gave Testimony, recorded for us in the Scriptures... then they are in error and should seek the Truth.

The Bible from beginning to end teaches us to Love and Obey.

We have to be Baptized with the Holy Spirit, set free to serve in Spirit and Truth.

We serve by obeying our Master.

By the Grace of GOD i know my Master and will love and obey with my liberty.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,089
190
63
#7
To all reading this man's post...

Ask yourself which sounds like the wide and which the narrow?
 
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#8
This christ grants us absolute liberty to use and enjoy the riches of knowledge and experience of all creation, this christ makes us realize that there is absolutely no sin in anything God has created and declared to be good and fit for use by man, whether they be food, drink, knowledge, music, clothes, sex, etc, all things are meant for use and learning and to profit from. To them that believe, they cannot sin, just like God himself cannot sin by taking pleasure in his creation. There is no longer "thou shalt not..." for all things are sanctified for use. /QUOTE okeyxyz

More non sense. Jesus said, I didn't come to take away the law but to fulfil it for us. And now that He did that don't mean we can break the law.
 
Jul 25, 2013
1,329
19
0
#9
Tell me which of the 10 Commandments would be broken if we Keep the Great and the second like it?/QUOTE loveme1

None would be broke but the sad truth is, no one has yet kept all the commands of Christ. Nope, no one is perfect except the Christ. For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. No one can keep the Greatest and the second commandment.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,089
190
63
#11
Tell me which of the 10 Commandments would be broken if we Keep the Great and the second like it?/QUOTE loveme1

None would be broke but the sad truth is, no one has yet kept all the commands of Christ. Nope, no one is perfect except the Christ. For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. No one can keep the Greatest and the second commandment.
Hebrews 12

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Did you leave the race?

keep running looking at the author my friend, that is what counts.
 
Aug 31, 2013
89
2
0
#12
James 2:8If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,” you are doing well. 9But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11For He who said, “DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY,” also said, “DO NOT COMMIT MURDER.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty. 13For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

It would appear that we are bound by the law of liberty, but this doesn't mean that we disobey the law's commands, but rather fulfill them. Paul said the law is holy and righteous and good, it demonstrates our sin, but it also leads us to Christ.
There's the difference between the law of Moses and the Law of Liberty. The one(of Moses) teaches you to hate or be against yourself, with it's "thou shalt not's.." and self denials, Filling you with a sin conscience for thinking and doing things that come naturally to you. So, automatically, you'd project and inflict these negative emotions unto others around you. But the law of Liberty teaches to love and embrace yourself, your intellect, your emotions, your sensualities(food, drink, sex, etc), so the love and understanding of yourself would naturally lead to love and understanding of other people you encounter.
 
Feb 17, 2010
3,620
27
0
#13
Here is the Jesus I LIVE! Disciples follow Jesus, ALL IN CHRIST does not FOLLOW, Jesus lives their lives FOR THEM and IN THEM.

Come let us see what Scripture teach.... A vast number of people COULD NOT OBEY THE LAW. So God made a plan.... Let me HELP THEM LIVE A TIGHTEOUS LIFE ON EARTH.... Bot Jew and Gentiles.... The WHOLE WORLD can now live a life so PERFECT that not one law will be transgressed, or not even one THOUGHT will be in transgression with God.


Why do people not know this.... A PERSON IN CHRIST... is is the MOST HOLY PLACE ON EARTH!!!!! In Christ is ONLY HOLINESS, ONLY GOLINESS.... IN HIM IS NO SIN.... Not only do the people in HIM SINNETH NOT, THEY CANNOT SIN. Not only did they stop, they are also REMOVED FROM SIN and the WORKS OF SATAN.... For then ALL EVIL IS DEAD!!!!!


The NEW CRATURE is not FOLLOWING the image of Jesus or the Lord Himself.... The LORD IS THE NEW CREATURE....


Get this for once and for all..... The rebirth of God, is NOT YOU BEING BORN AGAIN....IT IS JESUS IN YOU BEING BORN OF GOD.... To be BORN OF GOD,,,,is NOT FOLLOWING,,,,, IT IS FILLING OF GOD HIMSELF...


A person that receives BORN OF GOD this second, is FILLED WITH THE SEED/SPIRIT OF GOD THIS SECOND... And that Spirit will REMAIN IN THAT FLESH until God puts THAT FLESH TO REST.... REST....

As long as you have to FOLLOW JESUS, he is NOT IN YOU YET.... IF HE IS IN YOU, THERE WILL BE NO SIN.... Let me say it again.... IF JESUS IS IN YOU, THERE WILL BE NO SIN IN YOU.... And HE CANNOT BE IN YOU, IF YOU ARE NOT IN HIM.... And IN HIM IS ALSO NO SIN... SO SIN IS GONE.... DEAD!
 
Aug 31, 2013
89
2
0
#14
I dont know if I would say two Jesus's. :)
I know only one, who came to teach, then through sacrifice and resurection, became compleat.
For I am the way, the truth and the life, none can come to the Father except through me.
For by grace you have been saved, not of yourself, so no man may take pride in it.
I guess what Im trying to say here, is first we will see as though the mirror darkly, but when the perfect comes, we shall see face to face!
It is in face to face, that freedom is known! :)
Jesus Christ is Lord come in the flesh!!!!

God bless
pickles

They are really two christs. The first is of the law of Moses, spoke in parables(that people tend to take literal), spoke spiritual wisdoms but without giving the understandings to go with it. This is precisely the manner of the law of Moses. Thus the letter killeth(when you take the law literally). But the true revelation Jesus's teachings were given to the apostle, especially revealed in Paul's letters. With these new understandings, Pauls reveals the two christs: the one destined to die and therefore putting the law to death, and the other who lives from the death of the old.

They may be the same physical entity, but they are two different personalities with different value systems and mandates. The one who died demanded abidance to the law of Moses while the later commanded disregard of the same Law of Moses(through the law of Liberty, or Law of the spirit). The first christ died to usher in the era of the second christ, thus Paul urges us to now disregard(in our minds/consciences) the personality and values of the first christ.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,089
190
63
#15
They are really two christs. The first is of the law of Moses, spoke in parables(that people tend to take literal), spoke spiritual wisdoms but without giving the understandings to go with it. This is precisely the manner of the law of Moses. Thus the letter killeth(when you take the law literally). But the true revelation Jesus's teachings were given to the apostle, especially revealed in Paul's letters. With these new understandings, Pauls reveals the two christs: the one destined to die and therefore putting the law to death, and the other who lives from the death of the old.

They may be the same physical entity, but they are two different personalities with different value systems and mandates. The one who died demanded abidance to the law of Moses while the later commanded disregard of the same Law of Moses(through the law of Liberty, or Law of the spirit). The first christ died to usher in the era of the second christ, thus Paul urges us to now disregard(in our minds/consciences) the personality and values of the first christ.
Revelation 2

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Which said this?
 
L

Linda70

Guest
#16
There is only ONE Jesus Whom we are to follow...Jesus said:

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Matthew 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Make sure you are not following "another Christ" or "another gospel". (Galatians 1:6-9)
 
Aug 31, 2013
89
2
0
#17

This is certainly not scripture and spoke in parables and did not give understanding? Then why did the S & P want to kill Him so badly if they didn't understand? And the law was a shadow without understanding? Where did you learn that from? Don't know what you read as God's word, but you apparently aren't getting anything useful out of it.
The S & P may have wanted to kill jesus because he claimed direct son(instead of servant) of God, but that claim itself was not the strategy on which the gospel was established. The true christianity is in the value system(spirit; mindset; understanding) of God. Until Jesus's death and resurrection, absolutely nobody had this understanding/mindset/spirit of God besides Jesus himself, not even his disciples. This understanding was hidden from everybody until after his resurrection. It was impossible to make this known while the Law of Moses was still legally standing, it had to be abolished first through the death of christ( being the personification/fulfillment of the law of Moses).
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,089
190
63
#18
Scripture:

1 peter 1

22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: 23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.24For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:25But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Let no one tell you different.

John 6

The Messiah said this:

60Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?61When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?62What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
 
Aug 31, 2013
89
2
0
#19
To all reading this man's post...

Ask yourself which sounds like the wide and which the narrow?

Actually, the law of Moses and it's derivatives(all human moralities) are the wide ways. Even people who do not keep these law still have a sin conscience engendered by this law, thus they testify that the law they break is right. But to be in the narrow way is to have a conscience that does not testify that this law of Moses is righteous. This law creates sin and is the sin itself, not the breaking of it.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#20
Actually, the law of Moses and it's derivatives(all human moralities) are the wide ways. Even people who do not keep these law still have a sin conscience engendered by this law, thus they testify that the law they break is right. But to be in the narrow way is to have a conscience that does not testify that this law of Moses is righteous. This law creates sin and is the sin itself, not the breaking of it.
A lot of what you say is true, but you've gone off the deep end by stating that the law creates sin and is sin itself.