What Laws are still valid to christians

[homwardbound]

Do you understand what I am saying?

Set free from what?

Wrong-headedness?

the condemnation of the Law, the self flesh through his death, becoming my death to the old self, and thus seeing the resurrected Christ in the Spirit of God, a gift to me and all that believe, from God so amazing it is really hard to conceptualize this as truth fro God, for while we were yet sinners Christ died for us

 

[Elin]

okay can you then repost it in maybe different words so I can please

If you got the following, then you understood it:

Indeed, if the phrases, "letter of the law" and "spirit of the law," were found in Scripture,
your meaning would be clear from their context.

Not being found in Scripture, there is nothing to establish and guard their meaning.
And so we find the wrong-minded use regarding them that I am addressing below.

Evidently you have not encountered this form of error,
but it occurs frequently in my neck o' the woods.
It has a simple basis and a simple solution.

Its basis is Scripturally-unauthorized phrases, and its solution is not using
Scripturally-unauthorized phrases, which have no context to establish their true meaning.

Hence, my post, following:

Actually, there is no "spirit of the law" and "letter of the law" in Scripture.

The phrase "letter of the law" is wrong-headedly used to mean the external, literal sense in Scripture, or obedience to the external, literal sense of Scripture, as being deadly (kills) or unprofitable;
while the "spirit of the law" is wrong-headedly used to mean the inner spiritual sense of Scripture, or our inner attitude, as being life giving.

However, in 2Co 3:6-9, "the letter" is simply "the law written," an external standard before which all people stand guilty and condemned to death (the letter kills).

The Spirit that gives life is the Holy Spirit of the living God (v.3), not our inner attitude, or some "spiritual" sense of the words.

It is the Holy Spirit who writes that same law (the letter) inwardly "on tablets of human hearts," in fulfillment of the promise of the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34), and the law is now an internal standard.
And the Holy Spirit likewise gives the believer love of God's law, as well as power to keep it, neither of which he had previously possessed before the indwelling Holy Spirit.

So "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law" are unBiblical phrases often used in opposition to one another, or as distinct and different from one another, in a wrong-headed understanding of the law and the Spirit.

 

[Hoffco]

to Elin , I see you can define the "letter of the law, and the "spirit" of the law; But you are "pig headed " and won't admit to the truth ,you just defined.LOL , Please smile,! OK, Love in Christ. You did a great job in explaining 2Cor.ch,3 NOW , consider the"spirit of Jesus' words in Jh.6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and the are life." Do you see, the word of God, by itself, can not save us, it is an instrument used by God to give life. The law bring death , then God gives life, then God points to His law that gives us a life that is worth living and dying for. Jesus, words brought a sword, but His Spirit gave life. Love to all, Hoffco, Doug

 

[Welshman]

COM Vol 1 (1.3Mb) To open in Acrobat Reader use a mouse left-click.
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"The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty"


BY MANUEL LACUNZA






See this Wikipedia article for information about Lacunza, his book and the importance of its availability on the Internet. Jonathan Tillin has kindly made a version of this very rare and important text available in PDF format for which we give him credit and thanks.
Perhaps not for this thread but I urge anyone on believes in a 7 yr tribulation to visit this site and read these notes? This is we're the 7yr tribulation begins?? It was never preached til this man wrote what he wrote? If you want truth you will find it here, if you simply want kp believing what others have told you by all means that's your choice?

 

[Josh321]

This argument should not still be going on.. i gave the very best explaining anyone could about the matter of what truly the spirit of the law means, guess i need to do it again, we all agree that they are many spirits in the world, correct? when a spirit of bondage takes control of someone they become hooked on something super addicted, or when a infemnity spirit has a hold on someone that person tends to act like a female, well then what will you think truly will happen when the holy spirit comes upon someone? don't you think the same exact thing will happen? that is what is meant when it said the law is fulfilled, i also gave video examples to show you what i was saying, [video=youtube;UbXeP4nlbGI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbXeP4nlbGI[/video] after looking at this video, please look at it closely, what did you think miraculously change that man and made him holy and stop selling drugs and start living a Godly life, isn't it the holy spirit? exactly, does anyone understand what i am trying to say? this exact thing happen to me also when i first came to christ, the holy spirit had a hold on my life i changed immediately and the holy spirit was living the life through me, if people are fighting to say that we must follow something that means they haven't truly surrendered their life to christ as yet because God doesn't change the same experience happens over and over again to someone who has truly been born again, i pray this for you all if you truly want it, so God can reveal to you what i am talking about, God bless

 

[homwardbound]

If you got the following, then you understood it:

Indeed, if the phrases, "letter of the law" and "spirit of the law," were found in Scripture,
your meaning would be clear from their context.

Not being found in Scripture, there is nothing to establish and guard their meaning.
And so we find the wrong-minded use regarding them that I am addressing below.

Evidently you have not encountered this form of error,
but it occurs frequently in my neck o' the woods.
It has a simple basis and a simple solution.

Its basis is Scripturally-unauthorized phrases, and its solution is not using
Scripturally-unauthorized phrases, which have no context to establish their true meaning.

Hence, my post, following:

Actually, there is no "spirit of the law" and "letter of the law" in Scripture.

The phrase "letter of the law" is wrong-headedly used to mean the external, literal sense in Scripture, or obedience to the external, literal sense of Scripture, as being deadly (kills) or unprofitable;
while the "spirit of the law" is wrong-headedly used to mean the inner spiritual sense of Scripture, or our inner attitude, as being life giving.

However, in 2Co 3:6-9, "the letter" is simply "the law written," an external standard before which all people stand guilty and condemned to death (the letter kills).

The Spirit that gives life is the Holy Spirit of the living God (v.3), not our inner attitude, or some "spiritual" sense of the words.

It is the Holy Spirit who writes that same law (the letter) inwardly "on tablets of human hearts," in fulfillment of the promise of the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34), and the law is now an internal standard.
And the Holy Spirit likewise gives the believer love of God's law, as well as power to keep it, neither of which he had previously possessed before the indwelling Holy Spirit.

So "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law" are unBiblical phrases often used in opposition to one another, or as distinct and different from one another, in a wrong-headed understanding of the law and the Spirit.

Okay. I think I see what you say here, or This is what I got, the flesh has manipulated its way in and has still taken control as into me still trying to obey law from me, since it is separated as the Spirit of the Law internal and the letter of the Law external. When it is the same Law that no flesh can obey and now being internal, I (flesh) makes excuses for further sin(s), not seeing that me is still in the way, and just can't obey
Not sure I explained the interpretation that God revealed to me, yet I do see clearer, and wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a release in it no matter what, it is all God and none of me, outside or inside except to believe God and trust God in all things, Thanks Elin, no matter what way this was meant I got it, Thanks me is floored and see me in the way.

 

[homwardbound]

to Elin , I see you can define the "letter of the law, and the "spirit" of the law; But you are "pig headed " and won't admit to the truth ,you just defined.LOL , Please smile,! OK, Love in Christ. You did a great job in explaining 2Cor.ch,3 NOW , consider the"spirit of Jesus' words in Jh.6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and the are life." Do you see, the word of God, by itself, can not save us, it is an instrument used by God to give life. The law bring death , then God gives life, then God points to His law that gives us a life that is worth living and dying for. Jesus, words brought a sword, but His Spirit gave life. Love to all, Hoffco, Doug

If it is truth that he gave life and then it is done, we get life a free gift, not to be taken for granted. rather so appreciated we get busy in thanks and praises so deeply, we do not even notice we are obeying the laws of love from God. but you by the above post are denying this and adding works to the free gift. Therefore it is no longer free if one has to work for it. God is not a liar, and man is confused over the truth that is beyond measure
While we were yet sinners CHRIST died for us, please see through it is all God and none of any other. He came to give you and all that believe God a new and more abundant life, in the Spirit not the flesh
Love you Hoffco

 

[Elin]

to Elin , I see you can define the "letter" of the law, and the "spirit" of the law; But
you are "pig headed " and won't admit to the truth ,you just defined.LOL , Please smile,!

OK, Love in Christ. You did a great job in explaining 2Cor.ch,3

NOW , consider the"spirit of Jesus' words in Jh.6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and the are life."

Do you see, the word of God, by itself, can not save us, it is an instrument used by God to give life. The law bring death , then God gives life, then God points to His law that gives us a life that is worth living and dying for. Jesus, words brought a sword, but His Spirit gave life. Love to all, Hoffco, Doug

And how is that different from the Holy Spirit writing the law on our hearts (Jer 31:33), presented in my post, which you see as "pigheaded?"

 

[Welshman]

Josh 321 great post?

 

[Hoffco]

There is little or no difference, between what you said and I said, That is mypoint. You are "pigheaded" because you wom't ADMIT to a statement which you agree with. You defined the letter and the spirit of the law. basicly, you said the letter is literal and the spirit is figurtive,LOVE. SOOO , admit to it and move on, In LOVE for the brethren. The only difference between you and me, is: I don't think each law of God is actually wrtten in my heart, I think the LOVE for God and HIs law is written on my heart, I still have to study the Bible to know what God's laws are. And I think, YOU have to .also,study to know God and His law,RIGHT? I know women are more into intuistion than men, but ,even you don't know ,intuitively God's laws. DO you? Love in Christ, Hoffco

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I still have to study the Bible to know what God's laws are.

If you find a commandment or law that isn't fulfilled by faith in GOD (love GOD) and love of the brethren, let me know and we'll talk about it.

 

[Elin]

to Elin , I see you can define the "letter" of the law, and the "spirit" of the law; But
you are "pig headed " and won't admit to the truth ,you just defined.LOL , Please smile,!

OK, Love in Christ. You did a great job in explaining 2Cor.ch,3

NOW , consider the"spirit of Jesus' words in Jh.6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and the are life."

Do you see, the word of God, by itself, can not save us, it is an instrument used by God to give life. The law bring death , then God gives life, then God points to His law that gives us a life that is worth living and dying for. Jesus, words brought a sword, but His Spirit gave life. Love to all, Hoffco, Doug

And how is that different from the Holy Spirit writing the law on our hearts (Jer 31:33), presented in my post, which you see as "pigheaded?"

There is little or no difference, between what you said and I said, That is mypoint. You are "pigheaded" because you wom't ADMIT to a statement which you agree with. You defined the letter and the spirit of the law. basicly, you said the letter is literal and the spirit is figurtive,LOVE. SOOO , admit to it and move on, In LOVE for the brethren.

You did not understand me.

In my post on the "letter of the law" and the "spirit of the law," I did not say that 2Co 3:6 says the spirit is figurative.

I do not agree with your statement.

The only difference between you and me, is: I don't think each law of God is actually wrtten in my heart, I think the LOVE for God and HIs law is written on my heart, I still have to study the Bible to know what God's laws are. And I think, YOU have to .also,study to know God and His law,RIGHT? I know women are more into intuistion than men, but ,even you don't know ,intuitively God's laws. DO you? Love in Christ, Hoffco

The Holy Spirit gives me to know what love means.
I know that it means to care about my neighbor's welfare as I care about my own.

I don't have to study regulations to know what my neighbor's welfare or my neighbor's harm is.

We are not in agreement that the Spirit of the law is figurative, nor in agreement that I must study regulations to know what my neighbor's welfare or harm is.

 

[Welshman]

There is little or no difference, between what you said and I said, That is mypoint. You are "pigheaded" because you wom't ADMIT to a statement which you agree with. You defined the letter and the spirit of the law. basicly, you said the letter is literal and the spirit is figurtive,LOVE. SOOO , admit to it and move on, In LOVE for the brethren. BY ELIN, original post. What on earth is the difference between written on your heart, or written inside your heart? How many hearts do you have? Semantics is your thing?, splitting on and in? Stop writing illogical things and accept truth when presented ? On your heart in your heart? We're is the difference in that . As josh said this has gne way past its expiry date now bt sme are adamant some are deaf and some stiffnecked splitting hairs even when a truthful reply given ? As last post said it? Admit it ? Not one point is ceded by our Jewish brother/ sister even after 190 pages that tells me not to engage and help make it 290 pages? Jesus died for all sinners bt some try by words to negate the cross and all it means by laws ? Good luck with that??

 

[Welshman]

You dnt have to study the bible to find gods laws elin nor read the bible to know his laws. His law is simple believe in the son he sent and his works? This is the sum of all laws old and new ? Jesus is the author of our lives we need to trust in what he said? You still seem to have to put forth effort of your own strentgh to be pleasing god? This my friend is impossible? And contrary to our lords command to believe and walk in him? This is the source of dispute on here? You and others feel you have to strive in many ways, were as we believe with faith that gods work is dne and finished? We are like simply accepting the fathers directions to listen to all the son says and asks. But we are not under threat to be perfect we become perfect through time and remaining in Christ... Stop trying to please The Lord by self effort it wnt please him, trust is what he requires trust equals faith? Much love

 

[Welshman]

Yes we need study and learn and kp close to god through the bible as he chose this medium in this age to talk to us but searching scripture endlessly will not enrich us to Christ? Hearing through faith illuminates scripture for us telling us context application amongst many other things bt faith comes by hearing not reading? Dnt mix the two together when The Lord has told us already without faith none can please god father or son ? None... Means no one ? All the greats old and new were called and credited righteousness by faith???

 

[Welshman]

Not for elin I apologise bt for hoffco , still loving you brother despite our differences bt I wnt read your posts til you say sorry for condemning me and others saying things unbrotherly and judging fellow brothers/sisters words are like weapons be careful how you utilise them bro..

 

[Welshman]

No study needed to see how your neighbours health or harm is ? Just love thy neighbour as thyself and your neighbour will be fine? Jesus dnt think,view,judge,as we do always know this ! Jesus is much more than a tutor demanding good results with much study? Jesus is the aim,goal.and standard we must meet to be a pleasant aroma to the father, only Jesus himself can get us to that stage, no other way at all just Jesus amen

 

[Welshman]

To jgig, in particular and all others? I was reading proverbs sister ch 31 from verse 10 and you came into my mind sister? These words reflect your character and nature and thought I'd remind you to re read , and give thanks to god these attributes ( fruits ) are present in your words and indeed your life that you've kindly shared with us this far, I too was married bt after a life altering accident at work and financial woes she decided that we could t go on though I reluctantly after 3 yr had to accept her choice? But she mother of my two sons a girl I was with frm 16 yr old til I was 39/40 now 45 but I tried to see my wife becoming all that you represent bt alas wasn't to be, the point I'm making is in these pervers days a good man longs for a godly woman/wife to become the man Christ wants him to be I miss family life as was in care since 5 yr old so I valued family as sacrosanct not sure if god will bless me in future with a wife but I've kept celibate and clean since, what makes a man is a good wife from The Lord? Men/ women today disgrace gods gift of sharing life with a another but you sister encourage me and remind me of my mums generation big family one husband moral, god fearing and faithful, bless you sister for being you, and loving him who enables you to be so? Read them words sister remind you of him who called you amen .. Much love jgig...

 

[Welshman]

FOR ALL lAWKEEPERS
24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.


The Fourfold Witness


31 “If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true. 32 There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. 33 You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. 34 Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. 35 He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.


41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?” IF ANY cant accept these words out of our own lords mouth then I'm afraid either fleshly thinking is still at play or ones own ideas about these words supersedes Jesus ,s words? Wateva the reason its wrong? Life and judgement are through the son not Moses writings or any other writings by anyone who ever lived? Notice no man has ever heard the father no one ever!, so the only voice since Adam til today has bn the sons voice at the direction of the father, bt the fathers voice has never bn heard by any human ears never ever ever? We dnt use Yahweh,s name all the time cos we worship the son and no access to the father ever ever unless through the son... This ought be end of the matter bt I feel naive if that is indeed the end? I doubt it very much bt put all previous beliefs aside and let Jesus words sink deep with an open heart, he will remove the dross we collect along the way

 

[Elin]

Indeed, if the phrases, "letter of the law" and "spirit of the law," were found in Scripture, then the correct meaning HeRose gave would be clear from their context.

Not being found in Scripture, there is nothing to establish and guard their meaning.
And so we find the wrong-headed use regarding them that I am addressing below.

Evidently you have not encountered this form of error,
but it occurs frequently in my neck o' the woods.

Hence, my post following:

Actually, there is no "spirit of the law" and "letter of the law" in Scripture.

The phrase "letter of the law" is wrong-headedly used to mean the external, literal sense in Scripture, or obedience to the external, literal sense of Scripture, as being deadly (kills) or unprofitable;
while the "spirit of the law" is wrong-headedly used to mean the inner spiritual sense of Scripture, or our inner attitude, as being life giving.

However, in 2Co 3:6-9, "the letter" is simply "the law written," an external standard before which all people stand guilty and condemned to death (the letter kills).

The Spirit that gives life is the Holy Spirit of the living God (v.3), not our inner attitude, or some "spiritual" sense of the words.

It is the Holy Spirit who writes that same law (the letter) inwardly "on tablets of human hearts," in fulfillment of the promise of the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34), and the law is now an internal standard.
And the Holy Spirit likewise gives the believer love of God's law, as well as power to keep it, neither of which he had previously possessed before the indwelling Holy Spirit.

So "the letter of the law" and "the spirit of the law" are unBiblical phrases often used in opposition to one another, or as distinct and different from one another, in a wrong-headed understanding of the law and the Spirit.

There is little or no difference, between what you said and I said, That is my point.
You are "pigheaded" because you wom't ADMIT to a statement which you agree with. You defined the letter and the spirit of the law.
basicly, you said the letter is literal and the spirit is figurtive,LOVE. SOOO , admit to it and move on, In LOVE for the brethren.

You did not understand me.

I did not say that 2Co 3:6 says the spirit is figurative.

I do not agree with your statement.

BY ELIN, original post. What on earth is the difference between written on your heart, or written inside your heart?

I would say they are the same.

Your point in relation to 2Co 3:6?