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What Laws are still valid to christians
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It's not explicitly written in the OT anywhere that Christ is a priest of the order of Melchizedek. Someone had to put two and two together through the spirit to make that statement in the NT, because it's only implied in shadow in psalm 110. To claim that revelation like that which happened in the first century isn't happening now is simply uninformed and foolish.
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Yes, that someone was Jesus in his personal explanation of the meaning of the OT while he was on earth (Lk 24:44-45).
It isn't happening now because Jesus is not on earth now to give his personal explanation.
Only the apostolic revelation of the NT is authoritative for the Church.
Everything else is non-authoritative.
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MidniteWelder
Guest
Whose laws do Attorneys and police officers uphold?
Who grants them authority to do so?
Who grants them authority to do so?
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The law of the land is the immediate source.
Are you talking about truth, or just law?
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MidniteWelder
Guest
Yes.
IE:common law, law of the land
From whom did those laws originate and for what purpose are those laws instituted for?
It may take awhile to lay it all out, one step at a time.
Im talking about some people think we are under no law yet uphold law of the land ?
By whose authority are people given to govern a free people
Who gives authority for the law of the land
Where did the law of the land come from
IE:common law, law of the land
From whom did those laws originate and for what purpose are those laws instituted for?
It may take awhile to lay it all out, one step at a time.
Im talking about some people think we are under no law yet uphold law of the land ?
By whose authority are people given to govern a free people
Who gives authority for the law of the land
Where did the law of the land come from
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Depends on the nature of the government, democratic or non-.
Hoping it is for the welfare of those they govern.
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MidniteWelder
Guest
We have a chain of command right?
an officer has to answer to a superior officer
A district court judge must answer to a supreme court judge
A supreme court judge must answer to the laws instituted by common law ---IE: supreme law of the land
Key word being Supreme
Who is the ultimate authority over the government?
an officer has to answer to a superior officer
A district court judge must answer to a supreme court judge
A supreme court judge must answer to the laws instituted by common law ---IE: supreme law of the land
Key word being Supreme
Who is the ultimate authority over the government?
In a democracy, the people give their government that authority.
In a democracy, the people give that authority.
In a democracy, the people write the law of the land.
In a republic, they do it through their representatives.
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MidniteWelder
Guest
thou shalt not murder
thou shalt not steal
thou shalt not commit adultery
Are those based upon the 10 commandments still not upheld to this day
God was the original lawmaker
Laws were instituted to prevent violation of people inherent rights...correct?
In our consitution is it worded that we have certain unalienable rights
IE; rights granted to us just for being born
Rights granted to us by who?
Endowed to us by our ....."Creator"
If those rights are violated, those laws which have been based upon the 10 commandments
There is penalty is there not?
Romans 13
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.The authorities that exist have been established by God
We are further told
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong.
If we are no longer under the Ten commandments Jesus asked us to still follow,
Why do people submit to laws of the land but think they are exempt from Gods
As if laws of men are higher than Gods principles.
Does God actually have to state his word is law or his opinion
Or does all his word hold the same authority
The authority insituted by God himself who has put the governing authorities in place
Why would God put them in place to exist even in the NT?
thou shalt not steal
thou shalt not commit adultery
Are those based upon the 10 commandments still not upheld to this day
God was the original lawmaker
Laws were instituted to prevent violation of people inherent rights...correct?
In our consitution is it worded that we have certain unalienable rights
IE; rights granted to us just for being born
Rights granted to us by who?
Endowed to us by our ....."Creator"
If those rights are violated, those laws which have been based upon the 10 commandments
There is penalty is there not?
Romans 13
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.The authorities that exist have been established by God
We are further told
3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong.
If we are no longer under the Ten commandments Jesus asked us to still follow,
Why do people submit to laws of the land but think they are exempt from Gods
As if laws of men are higher than Gods principles.
Does God actually have to state his word is law or his opinion
Or does all his word hold the same authority
The authority insituted by God himself who has put the governing authorities in place
Why would God put them in place to exist even in the NT?
God is the ultimate authority.
However, unlike the earthly governing authorities who enforce penalties for breaking the law as soon as it is ascertained one has broken it, God withholds his punishment for law breaking until death or the final judgment.
But there will be penalty for breaking his law,
penalty either to Christ Jesus or to the lawbreaker.
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MidniteWelder
Guest
I believe we are in agreement Elin, I like what you're saying here.
I also agree with you that the authority over the government is the people since the government is essentially suppose to only be granted authority to prevent violation of citizens rights.
(love your neighbor as yourself...do unto others as you would have them do unto you)
If the Govt itself then violates those rights the people must then govern the government, yet still under Gods laws.
This is a different topic which is not pertinent here other than the fact the main question was what laws are still valid to Christians.
If the laws of the land hold, and originate from God, then they are still Gods laws.
---The initial point leading up to this all was also to define what a law is and what a law is for to begin with, otherwise one would be immune to arbitrary laws which have no backing or authority behind them.
Again God being the ultimate authority.
This is what I have concluded and wanted to share it as well...
Law asserts that there is immediate judgement and penalty thereof:
We know this principle since even still... Gods law of thou shall not murder holds throughout the Land
One is immediately tried and sentenced after being judged.
If one steals one is convicted and issued a sentence.
We cannot assert that we submit ourselves to be placed under mans laws then simultaneously assert we are exempt from Gods.
-The concept as was done in OT within immediately carrying out and enforcing sentence for breaking Gods law is what I see has changed within Gods grace. (Stoning for instance)
-not that the reason or principles behind why any law was initiated has changed.
(and the law I am referring to are his 10 commands, this being reinforced by Our Lord Jesus Christs own testimony of telling us to uphold his commands)
-The principles of God still Hold under the New covenant even if we are not judged and sentenced with penalty immediately
Agreed Elin, though at some point we will be judged and sentenced, even if not now.
God has not changed.
Jesus' commands have not changed
Under the New Covenant we have been granted mercy to reconcile our motives and actions to Christ.
To ask him to guide and teach us.
How are we taught except by his words?
In a manner of speaking then If we are expected to follow him and will be judged by God what else would we be judged by except for his own words we were asked to follow...(follow his words and teachings)
Therefore in a manner all of Gods word is law.
Would Christ waste his breath? Has he spoken to expect to not be followed?
To be able to ask forgiveness if one has actually and truly learned ones lesson to no longer continue in sin is a granted mercy. A mercy granted by the ultimate authority.
We deserve the same punishment for transgression against God, but God chooses on whom he has mercy.
What is sin? How do we know what sin is?
What are the wages of sin?
---Under the new covenant are people granted a free pass to sin?
(break Gods law of transgressing against him)
We are told we cannot sin so that grace may abound.
The conlusion to that would be God still expects us not to sin. We are not granted a free pass.
If we are not granted a free pass to sin and will be judged ....at some point even if not immediately...
Then I do see the covenant is different in how things are overseen by God and his people and how things will be carried out.
Under the New covenant we are judged and penalized later.....for the most part
I say for the most part because I believe we can all agree that God still disciplines those he loves.
I think everybody here on this site has experienced Gods discipline.
Does God discipline for nothing?
Even under the New Covenant Gods mercy and grace I see has extended to the fact that the progression of growing pains toward society (humans) is now treated like a more mature child who gets talked to and reasoned with to allow one to reconsider their actions as opposed to a young child (as in the beginning) who needs the rod of discipline immediately so as not to be spoiled.
We as humans and Gods children have the advantage of being able to look back at the progression of people and learn by the wisdom of seeing what happened in the past so as not to repeat those same mistakes.
Mistakes that had to be made by others so we can see what not to do as well as the good examples laid before us of what to do within following as a faithful servant. (Abraham, Noah, John etc)
Now that we can be more mature and knowledgeable in Christ, we are treated by our Father as a more mature child.
One may spank their 5 year old but likely not their 18 year old.
But we are still parented by God and will still have to answer for everything on judgement day.
Do some go to hell and some abide everlasting with the Father?
If so, then there is still sentence and punishment, just not immediately as it was before.
In the OT it was taken care of right then to establish how serious Gods laws and principles are.
Stoning and putting to death to purge the sin from among Gods people.
But we all still believe and know the wages of sin are death.
Has that concept been abolished?
Now we are given the opportunity to consider for ourselves how vastly important God is and how much in our love and respect for him we choose to follow and obey him.
God bless you Elin and Thank you for your participation in our discussion.
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Nor was Jesus on earth when the writer of the book of Hebrews wrote that Christ was of the order of Melchizedek. There is no witness that Christ ever said that to anyone while on earth. To state that only the apostles had revelation knowledge is foolish.
The fact of the matter is that some (many?) people simply don't believe what Christ and the apostles said: love and faith fulfill the law of Moses. Do those two things and you are well-pleasing to GOD. People who don't believe this have only one option: follow the law of Moses, or some perversion of it that they call GOD's moral law.
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MidniteWelder
Guest
A problem can arise if not laid out carefully, as Love and Faith in the wrong thing with improper motive does not justify a certain action.
Faith to win the Lottery may not win the Lottery
Improper motive for asking to win the lottery may ensure just the opposite in order to teach a different message such as
...God provides what one needs but perhaps not ones wants and that needs and wants are different things.
Love and Faith in what?
What does one default to as the basis of foundation and guideline of a system of double check to be assured their motives within ones Love and Faith are correct?
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One defaults to the word of GOD that teaches to treat one's neighbor as you would like to be treated. That's about as personal as it gets. You know what you don't want your neighbor doing to you, so don't do it to them. That is what Christ called love, and said that it fulfills everything required of the law of Moses.
One defaults to the word of GOD that teaches the work of GOD is to believe into Christ. That is an active trust in Christ's work every moment, not some passive belief that one has stuck on a shelf somewhere in the mind.
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MidniteWelder
Guest
What if what I want done unto me is in violation of one or more of Gods other principles or laws?
Is something always justified simply under the guise of "because I want it done unto me? "
Or is there more to be known and and studied and be knowledgeable in than that one concept?
Is something always justified simply under the guise of "because I want it done unto me? "
Or is there more to be known and and studied and be knowledgeable in than that one concept?
Wanting something done to yourself that violates GOD's law (love your neighbor as you love yourself) is not loving yourself because you would be putting yourself in harm's way.