The Original Pentecostal Movement

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Dec 21, 2012
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Well when it comes to the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. Peter stood up and said and it shall come to pass, in the last days.saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh.

The bold parts mean that a dead church can't stop it, the government can't stop it, the white house can't stop it and the devil can't stop it.

Eyewitness accounts of Azusa street saw flames on the building and call the fire department, but when they got there the found the fire of the Holy Ghost recorded by the LA fire department. People walking by, when they came to were speaking in tongues.

We need to get just as hungry for God as Seymour did and the people that came to his meetings. For 3 1/2 years, 3 services a day, 7 days a week. People were saved, filled with the Holy Ghost, healed, delivered, set free and its going to happen again on a larger scale and some long faced dead church can't stop it.
It is when someone speaking in tongues that comes with no interpretation and so they assume it must be a prayer language that needs to be stopped... otherwise... God will stop it when He comes to jusge His House at the pre trib rapture event to restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake and they will be made to hear His voice and be of the one fold & one shepherd, following the voice of strangers no more.

John 10:1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. [SUP]2 [/SUP]But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. [SUP]3 [/SUP]To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. [SUP]4 [/SUP]And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. [SUP]6 [/SUP]This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.[SUP]8 [/SUP]All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. [SUP]9 [/SUP]I am the door: ..........[SUP]14 [/SUP]I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. [SUP]15 [/SUP]As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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Acts 5:6 connects what was happening in verses 1-4.

[SUP]6[/SUP]Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
The verses did not say they went outside for these other people to hear this: it said this noice.. that same noise of tongues in that room... went abroad. So God was mainfesting tongues in that room to be heard abroad.




Because "some" did not understand what everyone were saying and so they assumed they were drunk.


DO NOT attribute this drunkness as belonging to God because the American Indians danced & chant for the Great Spirit to come & fall on them wherein they related the effects of drinking alcohol with when they were introduced to "firewater".


Do NOT attribute supernatuarl tongues that comes with no interpretation as being of God when the occults had it before God's gift came which was of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

SINCE we are not to believe every spirit but test them & prove all things and thereby abstaining from all appearance of evil, then God will not be copycatting Satan so that He can draw sinners away from their spirits and their tongues to a personal reconciled relationship with God the Father through the Son which is why all invitations given points to the Son: and NONE to the Holy Spirit.



You are assuming that Mary, the mother of Jesus and any other women were still there in that upper room. Note the beginning of that chapter as it mentioned the beginning of another day which was Pentecost.

So note how in Acts 1 when the men had their thing as seperate from the women.

Acts 1:[SUP]15 [/SUP]And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) [SUP]16 [/SUP]Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

Not "Men & ladies".



You are just reading it wrong. You separated verses 1-4 and did not see how verse 6 connects the noise in that room as they were being heard of speaking in their language.



If a member of your congegation spoke in a language that a foriegnor understood in his native tongue but some other visitor did not understand it, he would scoff and say that he was drunk too. Not that hard to fathom.



I find that circumspect.

Consider this: how can God call sinners away from their spirits and their supernatural tongues if they are going to be experiencing the same thing in christianity? How can they say to those that knew them as sinners in the occult BELIEVE that they have repented and are born again if there is no change in their tongues nor their focus on the "spirit"? It would be a poor witness.

I find it hard to believe that God would manifest His actual gift of tongues to speak unto the people and then permit His servants to give credence to that which is not of Him.. and yes, I can honestly say that it is NOT. I find that report dubious at best, especially when you are giving a general overview lacking great details.

Did God manifest tongues in believers to speak unto the people in the mission field and then stopped when they were believing that spirit that came over them with babbling nonsense to serve as a prayer language which is why they never could do it again?



I believe the Lord has led me to give you lines of discernment so that you do not believe every spirit as being of God, because He told us to test them... and believers are just going with the flow with whatever comes over them and the strange thing is... they can invoke it again by calling on the Holy Spirit.....which is not the will of the Father to do in approaching Him by because Jesus, the Son of God, is the only way to the Father. WHY? BECAUSE there are seducing spirits in the world and the Son is Whom the real indwelling Holy Spirit is still pointing to: the Bridegroom.

But it seems the meaning of that title is lost as well as Jesus being the only Mediator between God & man that believers broaden the way in approaching God the Father as if they can do so by way of the Holy Spirit... and they cannot in according to His word and the commandment of His invitation in John 14:6 from which the purpose of prayer is known in John 14:13-14. Cited below.

John 14:[SUP]6 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....[SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Going around the Son is asking for trouble & breaking the commandment of His invitation.

John 10:1
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber....[SUP]5 [/SUP]And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers....[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. [SUP]8 [/SUP]All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. [SUP]9[/SUP]I am the door:Those that have climbed up another way wind up with following a voice of strangers.. tongues that comes with no interpretation. That is what happens when they ask the Spirit directly and seek to receive Him again to get this tongues. They are thieves and robbers because they cut inbetween the bride & the Bridegroom in stealing away their personal time together by babbling nonsense thus not making known prayer requests to the Lord at that throne of grace so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for the Son answering their prayers. The Lord cannot answer prayers if they never knew what they had prayed for by allowing this spirit to cut inbetween them and the Lord.

Matthew 6:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

For that underlined to be true, then the Spirit need not say anything by using God's gift of tongues as a prayer language for Him to be praying to God. God would lead by example in giving assurances in His word.

I have heard the excuse from others that God is using this heavenly language so that the devil doesn't know what is being prayed for & interfere. The Book of Job testifies that Satan cannot do anything without God's permission & Jesus is Lord.

Pray about this, brother. The prophesy of 1 Timothy 4:1-2 is happening now. Ask Jesus for confirmation on the scripture given so that you may shun vain & profane babblings as it is a snare of the devil taken captive those that are led astray.
@The_highwayman,

Welcome to my world
:)
 
H

Hoffco

Guest
The original pentecostal movement would be in the book of Acts, started by Jesus in the out pouring of the Holy Spirit to begin the New T. age the New cov. age. I find it surprizing that Church historians can not find a movement before the 1900's. You would think that in the Reormation there would be a pentecostal out pouring of the Holy Spirit; And are the periods of "revival" absent of the tonges and healing and prophecy? Being of reform theology ,I would, could, see why the reformation time would be absent of the gifts of tongues. Some of Their doctinal positions were more Biblical, but extremely one sided. Obviously, some groups were more Biblical than others, and the idea of competition in religion is a very good thing, if we could agree to disagree joyfully, even though we have to stay in our own group. Personally i have been extremely hurt by districts who would not agree to disagree as their own demonminational rules ditated, each groups is full of brown-nosers; no one is willing to buck the Superintendent. The sad part is that the Nat.leaders do nothing to help the under dog. I have been barred from all their churches, even the Calvinistic one, because lies were spread about me. Food for thought. Hoffco
 
Sep 8, 2012
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The gifts always were, and always have been in full effect from the day of pentecost.
The reason is that Jesus sent the Comforter(John 16), and the Holy Spirit never left the body.
Now, we get into the gifts.
All of which are explained by the apostle Paul in I Cor. 12&13.
Many plaintiff thoughts, yet none has yet to address the ending of these in scripture.

We've been over and over all of it.
- - But if anyone yet is game; - by all means. (Please explain):)
 
Aug 2, 2013
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I have been on the mission field and witnessed people, that had no knowledge of the language of the country we were in speak in the native language for a day or two as they were leading others to Christ and praying for people,then never do it again. When we got back to the States they never could do it again.

Ironically the only ones I witnessed doing that were the ones that beleive and pray in their own heavenly language that one you all call gibberish and cannot wrap your fleshly minds around.

2 Things happened in Acts 2.1-15 and not only one and most denominations teach only one thing happened and therfore err greatly, because they attmept to reconcile it with contradiction.

Let the arrows continue
More and more we hear of God working in miraculous ways on the mission field. Thank you for your service to our Lord and Savior.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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always the far far far away mission field.
never any evidence. stories.

what i don't get is where on the mission field? some unknown jungle tribe nobody's ever been to before?
where there was no real translator?
why are you going anywhere today without a guide - someone who speaks the local language?

cam on:rolleyes:...nobody does that.
 
Dec 26, 2012
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The gifts always were, and always have been in full effect from the day of pentecost.
The reason is that Jesus sent the Comforter(John 16), and the Holy Spirit never left the body.
Now, we get into the gifts.
All of which are explained by the apostle Paul in I Cor. 12&13.
Many plaintiff thoughts, yet none has yet to address the ending of these in scripture.

We've been over and over all of it.
- - But if anyone yet is game; - by all means. (Please explain):)
UMMM Where did I say the Holy Spirit left the body? Again Paul says some will end. You can not within that verse pull out that Paul says ALL will end. Paul never says that. Paul does not mention one time any of the help gifts,the gifts of pastors,teachers,mercy.giving etc will end. And why is Paul completely silent on those gifts ending within that passage? If Paul ALL were to end at the time Jesus comes back why didn't he include a single one of the help gifts? The only gifts Paul says ends are the gifts seen as the sign gifts nothing more nothing less. And again the Bible shows that signs did NOT continue for all time IE Moses. They were SIGNS for a season for His good purposes and plans. If God does does NOT change then why the change on those sign gifts now? It's the biblical pattern that God did NOT continue those signs.

And again to say that God does not heal,does not speak to us,does not do anything else that God did in the OLD TESTAMENT for the saints is wrong also. IE Hanna,Sarah, God healed them so they could have a child. Or God using a stubborn mule to talk to another stubborn mule. To say those ended is wrong. And again if you told me tomorrow that God gave you a vision of selling everything you and you go to the Congo to preach the gospel,I would NOT have a problem with that.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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Proverbs 25:[SUP]26 [/SUP]A righteous man falling down before the wicked is as a troubled fountain, and a corrupt spring. [SUP]27 [/SUP]It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory. [SUP]28 [/SUP]He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]32 [/SUP]And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. [SUP]33 [/SUP]For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
 
P

PeteWaldo

Guest
"Furthermore, Jesus said, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved; he who believes not shall be damned" (Mark 16:16). According to Jesus, ANYONE who does not believe in Him will be damned. Jesus makes no exception for infants. Babies will not be saved without faith in Jesus. Parents who think they are placing their children under God's grace by "dedicating" them are deceiving themselves. The only dedication that the New Testament knows of is the "dedication" that take place via baptism. That is why infants should be baptized. Like everyone else, they desperately need forgiveness. If infants die before they believe in Jesus, they will be eternally condemned."
Five Pint Lutheran: The Case for Infant Baptism
A Lutheran once complimented me on a website, but begged me to remove the suggestion that there are no instances of infant baptism in scripture - because there aren't. Doctrine actually convincing the poor fellow that Jesus would condemn a baby, because of the ignorance or negligence of its parents. In regard to bondage to the flesh, and men who proclaim themselves and each other, in positions of authority to lord over God's heritage rather than being examples to the flock, the Lutheran Church fruit perhaps didn't fall very far from the Roman Catholicism tree.

Throughout the Gospel we find folks believed and were baptized. Anyone who has ever witnessed the knee-jerk selfishness of infants can see we are born in original sin. How could a baby believe in something they are too young to understand?
Being What You Are [Regeneration] (Paul Washer) - YouTube

Fortunately, scripture suggests that until a person is able to understand, or perhaps have never been brought the Gospel to believe, they cannot transgress.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
 
Aug 2, 2013
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always the far far far away mission field.
never any evidence. stories.
Scientific studies by PhD and MD types done on specific mission fields has provided evidence of healings. Here is one study that was published in the Southern Medical Journal.

Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Proximal Intercessory Pr... : Southern Medical Journal
Background: Proximal intercessory prayer (PIP) is a common complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) therapy, but clinical effects are poorly understood, partly because studies have focused on distant intercessory prayer (DIP).
Methods: This prospective study used an audiometer (Earscan® 3) and vision charts (40 cm, 6 m “Illiterate E”) to evaluate 24 consecutive Mozambican subjects (19 males/5 females) reporting impaired hearing (14) and/or vision (11) who subsequently received PIP interventions.
Results: We measured significant improvements in auditory (P <0.003) and visual (P <0.02) function across both tested populations.
Conclusions: Rural Mozambican subjects exhibited improved audition and/or visual acuity subsequent to PIP. The magnitude of measured effects exceeds that reported in previous suggestion and hypnosis studies. Future study seems warranted to assess whether PIP may be a useful adjunct to standard medical care for certain patients with auditory and/or visual impairments, especially in contexts where access to conventional treatment is limited.
Key Points
* Although commonly employed as a complementary and alternative medicine (CAM) therapy, the clinical effects of proximal intercessory prayer (PIP) are poorly understood, partly because most research has focused on distant intercessory prayer (DIP).
* This study found a significant effect of PIP on auditory function across the tested population (P < 0.003).
* This study found a significant effect of PIP on visual function across the tested population (P < 0.02).
* Further study seems warranted to assess whether PIP may be a useful adjunct to standard medical care for certain patients with auditory and/or visual impairments, especially in contexts where access to conventional treatment is limited.

A blogger's take on the study. Healing Miracles in Mozambique: Medical Journal | Letters to Creationists

Healing Miracles in Mozambique: Medical Journal

Posted on October 11, 2010 by ScottBuchanan
Heidi and Rolland Baker head a burgeoning Christian effort (Iris Ministries) in Mozambique. Iris is planting around a thousand churches a year in a region which has historically been resistant to Christianity. A key part of their ministry is prayer for healing. Friends of mine have traveled to Mozambique and reported back that they saw numerous healing miracles in Iris’s meetings. Often this occurs in visits to villages, where people can see that individuals whom they knew to be formerly deaf or mute can now hear and speak. For instance, this one-minute clip shows a woman declaring her vision to now be “normal”, and her villagers rejoicing (“Obrigado” means “Thank you” in Portuguese).
I heard Heidi speak in New Jersey last week. The main thrust of her talk was living a life of radical love and trust in God. She mentioned that there is a special grace on her ministry for healing of deafness, such that essentially everyone from their local Makua tribe gets healed. She noted that a team of PhD’s had recently come to check out reports of these healings. She indicated that some of these scientists had arrived as skeptics, but were won over by what they observed.
The results of this research have just been published by Brown., et al. here in the peer-reviewed Southern Medical Journal. I suggest downloading the “Article as PDF” for better readability. The researchers measured changes in hearing and vision before and after healing prayer. For hearing, they used a standard audiometer which made tones of varying loudness in a pair of earphones. The subjects responded verbally or by pressing a button when they could hear the tones. This enabled the researchers to determine how soft a sound that the subject could hear in each ear. The usable results for hearing before and after prayer are shown in the figure below.
Hearing results from Brown, et al. study of healing prayer

For each ear tested, the left bar shows the hearing threshold before prayer, and the adjacent (right) bar shows the hearing threshold after prayer. Lower bars mean better hearing ability. Seven subjects had both ears tested, and three had only one ear tested. There was a high level (50-100 decibels) of ambient noise during the testing, so it seems that a 40-50 decibel hearing theshold was about normal here. The researchers note that “Field conditions were challenging.” I can imagine the noise and chaos they had to endure, along with language and cultural barriers.
For many ears the hearing threshold dropped dramatically after prayer, indicating healing. The article clinically notes “a significant effect of PIP on auditory function (P < 0.003)”, where a P value this low indicates a super-high statistical effect. “PIP” stands for “Proximal Intercessory Prayer”, which denotes prayer typically within earshot of the recipient. For the seven ears which started with significantly impaired hearing (approximately 70+ decibel hearing threshold under these measuring conditions), every single one got major ( more than 20 dB) improvement. Two ears went from deaf or nearly deaf to normal. All but one person (designated subject 7H-2) came away with normal range hearing in at least one ear. Even 7H-2 went from majorly deaf in the right ear to merely impaired. This backs up Heidi’s claim of essentially 100% healing of deafness in Iris’s evangelistic meetings.
For vision testing, the subjects were shown a chart with E’s pointing up or down or left or right. The subjects were asked to identify which direction each E faced. Lower rows on the chart had smaller and smaller E’s, to test the visual acuity. The usable before and after results are shown in the following figure:
Vision results from Brown, et al. study

Lower is better for these data bars. As I understand it, a value of 6 here represents 20/20 vision. Again, many improvements were shown after prayer. The scientists concluded that significant improvement was observed (P= 0.02). As I see it, five of these ten subjects were more or less blind (6/100 is like 20/333 vision). Two out of these five improved to pretty good vision (6/7 , 6/10), two ended up with some usable vision (6/20, 6/35), and one showed no measurable improvement. Three cases started with moderately impaired vision (6/30 to 6/50); two of these three showed significant improvement. Subjects 7 and 9 started off with fairly decent vision, and showed little or no improvement.
So there it is, in black and white. It is not known how much of the initial vision problems were near- or far-sightedness, versus problems with the retina or cataracts. In a region with no optometrists or money for glasses, correction of severe myopia counts as healing of blindness.
To get an understanding of how Heidi and Rolland Baker function in a supernatural lifestyle, I’d suggest visiting YouTube for videos of their talks, finding a time (maybe while doing the dishes) when you can let the video stream for at least 30 minutes. Heidi has a unique blend of inherent faith, gushing love, and administrative vision that keeps her joyful and effective in the face of some horrifying disasters. Rolland is a bit of an odd duck, a man with a genius-level intellect now living and trying to interpret a life of childlike faith. Rolland and Heidi also have books available through Amazon. They and their associates are the real deal, laying down their lives to bring blessing to the poorest of the poor.
The article did not attempt to explain mechanisms by which functional improvements occurred. The article includes discussion on why some other studies, typically in Western countries and not involving hands-on ministry by Pentecostal-type Christians, showed lesser benefits to healing prayer. My add: There does seem to be a huge disconnect between stories of miracles overseas and the lack of confirmed miracles in the West. In Tim Stafford’s Christianity Today article about the Bakers’ ministry, he noted that the same researchers (led by Candice Brown of Indiana University) had confirmed miraculous healings in Brazil, but were unable to do so at charismatic Christian gatherings in North America.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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Scientific studies by PhD and MD types done on specific mission fields has provided evidence of healings. Here is one study that was published in the Southern Medical Journal.

....The article includes discussion on why some other studies, typically in Western countries and not involving hands-on ministry by Pentecostal-type Christians, showed lesser benefits to healing prayer. My add: There does seem to be a huge disconnect between stories of miracles overseas and the lack of confirmed miracles in the West. In Tim Stafford’s Christianity Today article about the Bakers’ ministry, he noted that the same researchers (led by Candice Brown of Indiana University) had confirmed miraculous healings in Brazil, but were unable to do so at charismatic Christian gatherings in North America.
The problem here is that Jesus has said that those who profess Him will claim prophesying in His name and casting out of devils in His name and doing wonderful works in His name in Matthew 7:21-23 by which because of the iniquity that denies Him as already being in them when they seek to receive Him again after a sign, they are denied by Him.

Matthew 7:[SUP]21 [/SUP]Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?[SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:[SUP]25 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.[SUP]26 [/SUP]And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:[SUP]27 [/SUP]And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Jesus says "therefore" in connecting that iniquity with another result brought on by not listening to Him that the Son is the only way to approach God the Father in anything ( John 14:6 & John 5:22-23 ); prayer ( John 14:13-14 & 1 Timothy 2:5 ), fellowship ( 1 Corinthians 1:9 & 1 John 1:3-7 ), and worship ( John 13:31-32 & Philippians 2:5-13 & Philippians 1:6-11 ). That other result for not listening to Him is this falling down result.

May the Lord cause the increase.....this falling down backwards for not listening to His words that He is the only way ( John 14:6 and there is no other way ( John 10:1 & Matthew 7:13-14 & John 10:7 ) is why being "drunk" in "His Presence" is why it is not of Him either, regardless of the so called miracles that come about.

Luke 13:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.[SUP]25 [/SUP]When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:[SUP]26[/SUP]Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.[SUP]27 [/SUP]But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.[SUP]28 [/SUP]There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.[SUP]29 [/SUP]And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.[SUP]30 [/SUP]And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Isaiah 28:[SUP]6 [/SUP]And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.[SUP]10 [/SUP]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[SUP]11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[SUP]12 [/SUP]To whom he said, This is the restwherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.[SUP]13 [/SUP]But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

So this baptism with the Holy Spirit that they claim is separate from salvation cannot be, because we are to rest in Jesus Christ when we came to and believed in Him thus we no longer hunger nor thirst to be filled. They that err, do not hear which is why they fall backwards in these movements of the spirit which they think is of the Holy Spirit, but it is not.

They either narrow the way to the straight gate and lean on Jesus Christ, trusting Him as their Good Shepherd to keep them from falling as well as cease chasing after seducing spirits to receive after a sign when the real Holy Spirit dwells within them by faith in Jesus Christ as promised when they were saved after believing in the hearing of the gospel so they could rest in Him for all things that they are filled as promised, & thus saved, and He will help them to follow Him because He is their Good Shepherd.

So believe me when I tell you that when people claim salvation by the preaching of an apostasy or claim miracles by that apostasy, it will not matter to me because Jesus has warned and spoken against such apostasy when it denies Him.

Titus 1:[SUP]15 [/SUP]Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.[SUP]16 [/SUP]They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

This is why many saved believers will be left behind as any work of iniquity that denies Him, they will be denied attendance to the Marriage Supper as Luke 13:24-30 testifies, even though `they are still His sheep for following the stranger's voice ( John 10:1-5;7;14-16 ) as they are of they that be Christ's at His coming after the great tribulation as they will be received as vessels unto dishonor as they will testify to the power of God in salvation even for those that believe in His name.

As it is, since there are vessels unto dishonor in His House that will not listen because they cannot hear, as they refuse to hear, then may we lean on the Lord Jesus Christ as our Good Shepherd to withdraw from fellowship & discussion of those that are not of us for assuredly, we do not speak the same thing nor have the same judgment.

2 Thessalonians 3:1
Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:[SUP]2 [/SUP]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.[SUP]3 [/SUP]But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.[SUP]4 [/SUP]And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.[SUP]5 [/SUP]And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.[SUP]6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.[SUP]7 [/SUP]For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.......[SUP]14 [/SUP]And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.[SUP]15 [/SUP]Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

This below can be read as applying to those that deny Jesus Christ within them by seeking to receive Him again.

1 John 1:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.[SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.[SUP]20 [/SUP]But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.[SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.[SUP]23 [/SUP]Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.[SUP]24 [/SUP]Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.[SUP]25 [/SUP]And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.[SUP]26 [/SUP]These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.[SUP]27 [/SUP]But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.[SUP]28 [/SUP]And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.[SUP]29 [/SUP]If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

They are not of the firstfruits; they are not of the elect if they do not hear Him to repent before the Bridegroom comes. These be the vessels unto dishonor; the five foolish virgins that are out to the market seeking to be filled continuously which is why they have not entered into that rest in Jesus Christ as those 5 wise virgins waiting for the Bridegroom as filled when they had first come to and believed in Jesus Christ so that they can rest in Him to wait for the Bridegroom.

Those astray that hear as God peradventures, can still repent with His help by shunning vain profane babblings and pray normally to give genuine thanks to the Father in Jesus's name for answered prayers and rest in Him as always filled as a testimony that they are always saved so that they can tell the world that Jesus Christ is the Savior BECAUSE He has saved them by faith in Jesus Christ. Once the door to the Marriage Supper is shut, they can still repent but too late to be received by the Bridegroom, but they will be received later on as vessels unto dishonor in His House for they are His in spite of falling away from the faith in Jesus Christ for chasing after seducing spirits to receive after a sign in the flesh.
 

stonesoffire

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Nov 24, 2013
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You would do better enow, to not post your vain imaginations, and post what the Word of God actually says.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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The original pentecostal movement would be in the book of Acts, started by Jesus in the out pouring of the Holy Spirit to begin the New T. age the New cov. age. I find it surprizing that Church historians can not find a movement before the 1900's. You would think that in the Reormation there would be a pentecostal out pouring of the Holy Spirit; And are the periods of "revival" absent of the tonges and healing and prophecy? Being of reform theology ,I would, could, see why the reformation time would be absent of the gifts of tongues. Some of Their doctinal positions were more Biblical, but extremely one sided. Obviously, some groups were more Biblical than others, and the idea of competition in religion is a very good thing, if we could agree to disagree joyfully, even though we have to stay in our own group. Personally i have been extremely hurt by districts who would not agree to disagree as their own demonminational rules ditated, each groups is full of brown-nosers; no one is willing to buck the Superintendent. The sad part is that the Nat.leaders do nothing to help the under dog. I have been barred from all their churches, even the Calvinistic one, because lies were spread about me. Food for thought. Hoffco

It was the time of the first century reformation that the gifts was poured out on all nations.The shadows and types used as parables where no longer needed. The veil was rent indicating Christ had come in the flesh marking the refomation.

Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.eb 9:9
 
Mar 28, 2016
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It is when someone speaking in tongues that comes with no interpretation and so they assume it must be a prayer language that needs to be stopped... otherwise... God will stop it when He comes to jusge His House at the pre trib rapture event to restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake and they will be made to hear His voice and be of the one fold & one shepherd, following the voice of strangers no more.
The interpretation of tongues is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit .If a person speaks in his native tongue and God does not interpret it into the language of others they should not speak..

God interpretations as revelations worked both ways. When the first spoke in his own language (Galilaean) the other person heard it in his language, and he answered or spoke to the first speaker in his native language, the Holy Spirit interpreted it to him. Back and forth (conversation)neither knowing the language of the other. All gifts a twofold not one edifies one.

And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and “were confounded”, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Act 2:5

The Galileans spoke they spoke one language . Not the language of every nation at one time.

It’s how the gospel was spread .as long as God was bringing new revelation. Until he finished with the last chapter, Revelation.

Tongues where a sign to the unbelieving Jew signifying the veil was rent and all nations could receive a revelation form God.
It is God who made the words know to the other nations through prophecy. It is not accredited to men .

Proverbs 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
 
Dec 21, 2012
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You would do better enow, to not post your vain imaginations, and post what the Word of God actually says.
Then why would God perform something supernaturally today that mimics the works of darkness as exposed in Isaiah 28?
 
Dec 21, 2012
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The interpretation of tongues is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit .If a person speaks in his native tongue and God does not interpret it into the language of others they should not speak..
If you are referring to 1 Corinthians 14:28, which was after two or three speak in tongues while another interpret, this was to prevent a visiting foreigner speaking out of turn which was why he can be made to be silent.

God interpretations as revelations worked both ways. When the first spoke in his own language (Galilaean) the other person heard it in his language, and he answered or spoke to the first speaker in his native language, the Holy Spirit interpreted it to him. Back and forth (conversation)neither knowing the language of the other. All gifts a twofold not one edifies one.

And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and “were confounded”, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? Act 2:5

The Galileans spoke they spoke one language . Not the language of every nation at one time.
What really happened was that His disciples, all Galilaeans, were all speaking various foreign languages to these foreign Jews and they were surprised because they knew of these Galilaeans as being native & only spoke their own language. We can know this to be true because some were mocking them as being drunk, because they were hearing other foreign languages they were not familiar with that His Galilaeans disciples were speaking.

This was why in an assembly, one speaks in tongue and another interpret because it is not being understood by all that do not know the foreign tongue that is being manifested by the Holy Spirit.

It’s how the gospel was spread .as long as God was bringing new revelation. Until he finished with the last chapter, Revelation.

Tongues where a sign to the unbelieving Jew signifying the veil was rent and all nations could receive a revelation form God.
It is God who made the words know to the other nations through prophecy. It is not accredited to men .

Proverbs 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
Something tongue speakers that use noninterpretative tongues as a prayer language overlook for what tongues were for; to make known His words to those abroad, therefore it was never meant to be used as a prayer language at all.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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If you are referring to 1 Corinthians 14:28, which was after two or three speak in tongues while another interpret, this was to prevent a visiting foreigner speaking out of turn which was why he can be made to be silent.



What really happened was that His disciples, all Galilaeans, were all speaking various foreign languages to these foreign Jews and they were surprised because they knew of these Galilaeans as being native & only spoke their own language. We can know this to be true because some were mocking them as being drunk, because they were hearing other foreign languages they were not familiar with that His Galilaeans disciples were speaking.

This was why in an assembly, one speaks in tongue and another interpret because it is not being understood by all that do not know the foreign tongue that is being manifested by the Holy Spirit.



Something tongue speakers that use noninterpretative tongues as a prayer language overlook for what tongues were for; to make known His words to those abroad, therefore it was never meant to be used as a prayer language at all.
That is not what it is saying I have seen a lot of allegorical interjection of 1 Corinthians. the context of 1 Corinthians 12, 13, 14.
 

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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I've read a source that contradicted the idea that Seymour had to sit outside of the classroom at the Bible school in Texas. One source said that, and it was quoted in other sources. Parham faced some backlash for having integrated meetings in Texas.

Also, I read an article that investigated whether Parham was a member of the Klu Klux Klan that debunked the claim-- or the idea that there was any evidence for the claim. The Klu Klux Klan used to be a cultural purity society, but more focused on curbing Irish imigration. We think of it as an anti-black group now. I read that Harry Truman used to be in the Klu Klux Klan.

Be that as it may, Parham rented a Klu Klux Klan hall once to hold some kind of meeting. He had a sermon that started with three 'K's that he advertised. Stuff like 'Konsecration.' I don't remember all the 'K's. That may be the source of the Klu Klux Klan allegation. He may have been a freemason before he became a preacher, though. But apparently he was not active in the organization after becoming a preacher from what I read.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Enow wrote
If you are referring to 1 Corinthians 14:28, which was after two or three speak in tongues while another interpret, this was to prevent a visiting foreigner speaking out of turn which was why he can be made to be silent.
So is your interpretation of verses 27 and 28, that speaking in tongues is a supernatural gift, but if there is no interpreter, the speaker transforms into a foreigner speaking his own native language?
 
Dec 21, 2012
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That is not what it is saying I have seen a lot of allegorical interjection of 1 Corinthians. the context of 1 Corinthians 12, 13, 14.
Feel free to edify and correct, brother, when you have more time for it. As it is, by the grace of God, nothing I have shared in my application of scripture opposes the truth in other scripture.

How tongue speakers apply 1 Corinthians 12, 13, 14th chapter as if it was written to teach tongues to be used without interpretation as a prayer language of the Holy Spirit is what has been interjected in there when all modern Bibles that refer to the Holy Spirit as a He, cites in John 16:13 that the Holy Spirit cannot speak for Himself or utter His own words but can only speak what He hears and there fore God's gift of tongues is only of other men's lips to speak unto the people & not a prayer language.