S
StandStrong
Guest
on a related note my original post was a completely biased answer since i have not read the article nor the other blog you mentioned in the OP.
Schrodinger's Rapist
- Thread starter PopClick
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Lets pretend that Rape Culture exists. Then lets read this article so that we can preach at men to do what society already expects of them.
Anytime people do anything in life, there is risk involved. How we choose to adapt to that risk is up to us as individuals and adults.
Some men choose to have a Concealed Carry Permit, so that if they are dining at a Pizza hut and a guy walks in to hold up the joint he can protect the establishment as well as his family. Some men take this to extremes and barely leave the house. Some people never pick up hitchhikers.
Every time I get into a car I buckle my seatbelt. Because there are people who whether they realize it or not might plow into me.
In everything there is risk and with risk comes mitigation. That is part of what being a responsible human adult means.
3/4 of rapes are not committed by strangers or new faces on dates.
I throw this article in the same box as all those PSA warnings, "Men should teach their Son's to Respect women."
How about Parents should teach children to respect people?
This is what I'm getting from this article.....
"Men, be gracious with us women, because we see ourselves as perpetual potential victims. We have been taught that having a (WeeWee), means some people are inherently flawed and their nature is that of Rapist until proven otherwise. Those members of society without a (WeeWee) are perpetual potential victims."
With such loaded terms as, "You must be aware.." & "Learn to Understand and Respect women" & and of course, "Don't Rape"
well Gee Golly shucks and gosh darn! Unless I'm from some pirate Colony in Somalia, I think I've heard just about enough.
Anytime people do anything in life, there is risk involved. How we choose to adapt to that risk is up to us as individuals and adults.
Some men choose to have a Concealed Carry Permit, so that if they are dining at a Pizza hut and a guy walks in to hold up the joint he can protect the establishment as well as his family. Some men take this to extremes and barely leave the house. Some people never pick up hitchhikers.
Every time I get into a car I buckle my seatbelt. Because there are people who whether they realize it or not might plow into me.
In everything there is risk and with risk comes mitigation. That is part of what being a responsible human adult means.
3/4 of rapes are not committed by strangers or new faces on dates.
I throw this article in the same box as all those PSA warnings, "Men should teach their Son's to Respect women."
How about Parents should teach children to respect people?
This is what I'm getting from this article.....
"Men, be gracious with us women, because we see ourselves as perpetual potential victims. We have been taught that having a (WeeWee), means some people are inherently flawed and their nature is that of Rapist until proven otherwise. Those members of society without a (WeeWee) are perpetual potential victims."
With such loaded terms as, "You must be aware.." & "Learn to Understand and Respect women" & and of course, "Don't Rape"
well Gee Golly shucks and gosh darn! Unless I'm from some pirate Colony in Somalia, I think I've heard just about enough.
U
Ugly
Guest
Yeah, i tried that once. She put rainbows and butterflies on my face in permanent marker. Guys wouldn't stop hitting on me for months. I learned my lesson.
U
Ugly
Guest
The writer has good intentions and the article seems rather appropriate from her perspective I guess. But wow...is “Will this man rape me” actually her first thoughts??
Still...I can sympathize with having unique challenges & concerns to face each day just by leaving the house. Except in my case, instead of it being “I would rather not be killed or assaulted”, it’s more like “I would rather not be assumed a thug, degenerate, thief, uneducated, dirty, angry, violent person today by strangers (of *all* colors)...in addition to (the default assumption of) potential murderer or rapist since I’m also a man”, all because I’m also naturally sun kissed lol. It’s a unique challenge being "man + brown".
“Men must be aware of signals”, she says? Pfft I gotta wear a human billboard with all of the additional messages I have to broadcast daily! Clutched bags with a hint of the evil-eye as I walk by in public places wearing the wrong clothes, VERY frequent “routine” traffic stops in a nice car, being blinded by a patrol’s spotlight if I take out garbage at night in my gated community; c’est la vie.
Dark alleys and poorly lit underground garages are especially dangerous for me too when walking to my car. You got car key-wielding women lurking around every corner lol (wink Grace)!
What’s REALLY difficult is if my car’s next to hers (driver doors on same side) and she gets to hers first. At that point I go through some pretty advanced calculus thinking “ok...if I continue to approach her she could freak out and I could get stabbed...but if I stand back and wait till she gets in her car I look like a criminal plotting a crime against her, she could freaked out and I could get shot (CC permit). Hmmm...SOO what’ll it be, Josh?”
You wouldn't believe how many times I've been in these “lose-lose” situations
.
So I don’t approach any strange women (whether for conversation or to simply to get past her to my car)...not until they've gotten a nice good look at me first and have given a sign of interest.
Still...I can sympathize with having unique challenges & concerns to face each day just by leaving the house. Except in my case, instead of it being “I would rather not be killed or assaulted”, it’s more like “I would rather not be assumed a thug, degenerate, thief, uneducated, dirty, angry, violent person today by strangers (of *all* colors)...in addition to (the default assumption of) potential murderer or rapist since I’m also a man”, all because I’m also naturally sun kissed lol. It’s a unique challenge being "man + brown".
“Men must be aware of signals”, she says? Pfft I gotta wear a human billboard with all of the additional messages I have to broadcast daily! Clutched bags with a hint of the evil-eye as I walk by in public places wearing the wrong clothes, VERY frequent “routine” traffic stops in a nice car, being blinded by a patrol’s spotlight if I take out garbage at night in my gated community; c’est la vie.
Dark alleys and poorly lit underground garages are especially dangerous for me too when walking to my car. You got car key-wielding women lurking around every corner lol (wink Grace)!
What’s REALLY difficult is if my car’s next to hers (driver doors on same side) and she gets to hers first. At that point I go through some pretty advanced calculus thinking “ok...if I continue to approach her she could freak out and I could get stabbed...but if I stand back and wait till she gets in her car I look like a criminal plotting a crime against her, she could freaked out and I could get shot (CC permit). Hmmm...SOO what’ll it be, Josh?”
You wouldn't believe how many times I've been in these “lose-lose” situations
.So I don’t approach any strange women (whether for conversation or to simply to get past her to my car)...not until they've gotten a nice good look at me first and have given a sign of interest.
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The writer has good intentions and the article seems rather appropriate from her perspective I guess. But wow...is “Will this man rape me” actually her first thoughts??
Still...I can sympathize with having unique challenges & concerns to face each day just by leaving the house. Except in my case, instead of it being “I would rather not be killed or assaulted”, it’s more like “I would rather not be assumed a thug, degenerate, thief, uneducated, dirty, angry, violent person today by strangers (of *all* colors)...in addition to (the default assumption of) potential murderer or rapist since I’m also a man”, all because I’m also naturally sun kissed lol. It’s a unique challenge being "man + brown".
“Men must be aware of signals”, she says? Pfft I gotta wear a human billboard with all of the additional messages I have to broadcast daily! Clutched bags with a hint of the evil-eye as I walk by in public places wearing the wrong clothes, VERY frequent “routine” traffic stops in a nice car, being blinded by a patrol’s spotlight if I take out garbage at night in my gated community; c’est la vie.
Dark alleys and poorly lit underground garages are especially dangerous for me too when walking to my car. You got car key-wielding women lurking around every corner lol (wink Grace)!
What’s REALLY difficult is if my car’s next to hers (driver doors on same side) and she gets to hers first. At that point I go through some pretty advanced calculus thinking “ok...if I continue to approach her she could freak out and I could get stabbed...but if I stand back and wait till she gets in her car I look like a criminal plotting a crime against her, she could freaked out and I could get shot (CC permit). Hmmm...SOO what’ll it be, Josh?”
You wouldn't believe how many times I've been in these “lose-lose” situations
So I don’t approach any strange women (whether for conversation or to simply to get past her to my car)...not until they've gotten a nice good look at me first and have given a sign of interest.
Aw Josh... this makes me sad! You need to move down here. Man + Brown is the order of the day, and my personal theory is that with a few more generations everyone will be a lovely shade of beige. (For real... they say racism is worse in the deep south but I have to disagree. We live side by side and don't think a thing about it.)
Nah no need to be sad
I'm waiting for the next world. But in the mean time...
...time for a change of scenery.
K
KJV15John11
Guest
The writer has good intentions and the article seems rather appropriate from her perspective I guess. But wow...is “Will this man rape me” actually her first thoughts??
Still...I can sympathize with having unique challenges & concerns to face each day just by leaving the house. Except in my case, instead of it being “I would rather not be killed or assaulted”, it’s more like “I would rather not be assumed a thug, degenerate, thief, uneducated, dirty, angry, violent person today by strangers (of *all* colors)...in addition to (the default assumption of) potential murderer or rapist since I’m also a man”, all because I’m also naturally sun kissed lol. It’s a unique challenge being "man + brown".
“Men must be aware of signals”, she says? Pfft I gotta wear a human billboard with all of the additional messages I have to broadcast daily! Clutched bags with a hint of the evil-eye as I walk by in public places wearing the wrong clothes, VERY frequent “routine” traffic stops in a nice car, being blinded by a patrol’s spotlight if I take out garbage at night in my gated community; c’est la vie.
Dark alleys and poorly lit underground garages are especially dangerous for me too when walking to my car. You got car key-wielding women lurking around every corner lol (wink Grace)!
What’s REALLY difficult is if my car’s next to hers (driver doors on same side) and she gets to hers first. At that point I go through some pretty advanced calculus thinking “ok...if I continue to approach her she could freak out and I could get stabbed...but if I stand back and wait till she gets in her car I look like a criminal plotting a crime against her, she could freaked out and I could get shot (CC permit). Hmmm...SOO what’ll it be, Josh?”
You wouldn't believe how many times I've been in these “lose-lose” situations
So I don’t approach any strange women (whether for conversation or to simply to get past her to my car)...not until they've gotten a nice good look at me first and have given a sign of interest.
Thank you for that Josh. I have done some of those things as a man, but never stopped to realize how much harder it would be for a man of color.
The biggest impression that was made on me was when my family moved to Sallisaw, Oklahoma. I was a sophomore in high school and my last class before lunch was Choir. The only other male in that class happened to be Afro-American, so we went to lunch together. When we sat down to eat, everybody's eyes were staring at us. It was then that I noticed that every table had either only all Caucasians or all Afro-Americans. I was raised without seeing the difference between people, just all being children of God. I quickly got the nickname "The Jerk," from the movie, because even though I was Caucasian, they said I wanted to be Afro-American, which was long before Vanilla Ice and a bunch of "crackers" got into Rap music. Outside of my friend in Choir, everyone else seemed to be content with the segregation, regardless of the color.
lol you became a lightning rod by upsetting the established order; there had to be something wrong with you and not them. But that's a great point that everyone's guilty. Thankfully, I wasn't raised that way either (I went to a school that had students from all walks) so when I starting noticing it (fresh out of that environment) at first it hurt my heart.
Btw PopClick sorry for derailing your thread a bit, I was just relating to the similarities addressed in the article; on the one hand, caution is only good common sense. Groups of people staying within their familiar social structures is similar if not exactly like women sticking to their familiar surroundings and being cautious with new men...all in the name of safety, because the unknown can truly be dangerous. Yet too much caution can turn into fear (for situations involving new men & woman meeting each other) and prejudice (for people in racial situations). But the unfortunate truth is that fear and prejudice are almost warranted in this fallen world because it IS still so evil (at present).
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I thought the article did a good job of explaining to men the concerns that vigilant women have. My ex husband (Mexican) was a respected member of our church and became the pastor of the Spanish ministry. No one would have guessed how abusive he would become. The man who raped me last summer was a white guy with a Christian Tshirt helping me move. I have since gotten my concealed handgun license and taken self-defense courses so I will never be a victim again.
The fact is that there is no definitive outward indicator that someone is going to be a rapist. Men historically are the most likely to commit those crimes against women, although that gap is closing in the younger adults as young women become more sexually aggressive. I don't automatically think every man is a rapist, but how can I take that risk until he has been fully vetted? I am still friendly and polite. Just don't expect me to give you my address or my last name right off the bat. And if a man at any point ignores "no" on any level, I'm gone.
The fact is that there is no definitive outward indicator that someone is going to be a rapist. Men historically are the most likely to commit those crimes against women, although that gap is closing in the younger adults as young women become more sexually aggressive. I don't automatically think every man is a rapist, but how can I take that risk until he has been fully vetted? I am still friendly and polite. Just don't expect me to give you my address or my last name right off the bat. And if a man at any point ignores "no" on any level, I'm gone.
R
Relena7
Guest
I think it is good to be safe. Women know a man can physically overpower us, so the second best self-defense is to be extra aware of our surroundings and to use wisdom. If we see a strange man approaching and we're all alone, it's hard not to imagine the worst. Especially if you watch the news a lot. The news is the worst thing to watch if you want to feel safe. The news is also true.
It's the same with protecting your wallet in a crowd. Every random stranger you bump into could be a potential pick-pocket. You don't know any of them. Most are likely nice people, but until you know for sure, you aren't going to be leaving your wallet sitting outside of your pocket for a second.
I don't think I'm hard on men. I am safe though. The "potential rapist" thoughts only come depending on the situation. If I am out walking alone and some guy approaches me, I'm going to be a lot more paranoid than if the same guy approaches me in a public place like a crowded park on a Sunday afternoon. It's all about timing. If a woman knows she is in a vulnerable situation like if she is alone, she's going to be more paranoid than if it's in a safer place. You don't know him or what his intentions are. It's not worth the gamble. If that makes me less desirable by a random person on the internet - tough. He'll find himself a naive trusting woman who never watches the news, and they can live happily ever.
It's the same with protecting your wallet in a crowd. Every random stranger you bump into could be a potential pick-pocket. You don't know any of them. Most are likely nice people, but until you know for sure, you aren't going to be leaving your wallet sitting outside of your pocket for a second.
I don't think I'm hard on men. I am safe though. The "potential rapist" thoughts only come depending on the situation. If I am out walking alone and some guy approaches me, I'm going to be a lot more paranoid than if the same guy approaches me in a public place like a crowded park on a Sunday afternoon. It's all about timing. If a woman knows she is in a vulnerable situation like if she is alone, she's going to be more paranoid than if it's in a safer place. You don't know him or what his intentions are. It's not worth the gamble. If that makes me less desirable by a random person on the internet - tough. He'll find himself a naive trusting woman who never watches the news, and they can live happily ever.
A
adekruif
Guest
The use of Schrodinger in this "article/example" is flawed. Human actions aren't scientific, so to use scientific "reasoning" to explain our behavior isn't valid.
FWIW, The Heisenberg principle, although still not correct, would be a better representation.
FWIW, The Heisenberg principle, although still not correct, would be a better representation.
Oh, no. That was not one of my questions. I stated in the OP that I knew there were many men who would never do such a thing. I added the "dictionary definition" clause because I figured someone would say "Actually, if you look up 'man', 'potential', and 'rape'..." And I get that. But no. Physical ability to commit a crime means nothing without a willingness to commit that crime.
I was asking for thoughts about the way things were laid out in the article. The mindset/actions/general attitude that the author was describing. I may not have been clear enough about that.
~~~~~~~~~~
In general, I don't see myself as being jumpy or distrustful. But, like I said, there have been times when I was not being as safe as I should have been. I've also been told, several different times, by several different people, that they didn't think I was careful enough. Oddly, every one of the people who told me that were male. So I figured I'd poke around for different points of view, from guys and girls alike.
The part of the article that I DID like and agree with, was the part about why it bothers some women when guys ignore a "no", even a simple "no" about not wanting to talk or whatever. Like Misty mentioned, If they get pushy or irritated, it does raise a red flag. But I'm well aware that not every man does that. I've met way too many respectful guys to say otherwise.
Ennyway, thanks to everyone for their thoughts and perspectives. I pretty much agree with everyone at the same time, which is cool.
J
jimmydiggs
Guest
Two incidents come to mind that I have experienced personally. I was once approached behind a store in a semi-seedy area by a car full of guys from a fair distance. The driver asked if I knew where a certain place was and luckily I had a map so, keeping in mind to be cautious and wise, I stayed where I was and looked for it. I was planning on just yelling out the directions and so I thought great, no problem right?? Well, no...the guy HAS to say, "bring it over here, love" and I said..."um, no I don't THINK so!" He yelled out in quite an agressive tone.."are you THAT paranoid?? HEY!!!" I thought that was very insensitive and yelling like that even made it worse...why would I all of sudden trust him now when he yelled at me?? If he had been really sensitive he could have just asked if he could look at the map but in front of the store, where people were and I would have obliged. I know for me, when I approach strangers I always suggest that or whatever measures are needed for them to feel safe, depending on the situation, because I know the 'stigma' and fear people have and I guess, who technically wouldn't in this day and age. Also, there was this one time where I was approached as I was walking in yet another parking lot and it was well away from the other cars. I had noticed him about a minute earlier as I was walking on the sidewalk near the mall and he made some sort of sound like 'woo!' and peered at me through the window. So he approached me from a distance, yet again and then asked me a series of unrelated questions in a rather quick fashion and I quickly answered rather perplexed and in rather cut off tone that I didn't know and that I was just new there and proceeded to continue walking and then he asked me my name?? It was as if he was trying to break down my defences for some reason and I looked at him blankly and without another word ran across the street and could see him glaring at me still. So, its these things I look for...the odd questions that you can tell something is up...I would be hard pressed to find any other reason why he would ask me those things...creepy!!