TITHING???

StandingFirmInChrist · Nov 18, 2013

here's a novel idea... Freewill offerings.

ask yourself this question, is God more pleased with money given because a pastor took a command written in the Mosaic/Levitic Law (Lev. 27:30-33; Deut. 14:22-29; Mal. 3:8-19) and told his congregation they were commanded to obey that Law? Or is He more pleased with the one who chooses of his own volition, out of his love for God and the things of God?

before you answer that, consider the Apostle Paul's rebuke ginen to the saints at Galatia (Gal. 3:1-10) Paul said they were foolish for having submitted to the Law. He stated that those who submit to the Law must keep all the Law.

Is your pastor telling you to eat your tithes with your family as the Law commanded? Is he telling that every third year you are to keep your tithe so you can feed the less fortunate as the Law commanded? Are you giving the tithe to the Levite as God commanded in the Law?

James 2:10 (KJV) 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

it is obvious that many pastors use the Law deceitfully, taking what is written therein and wresting it to form a man-made Law that the Word of God never endorses.

Matthew 15:9 (KJV) 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

don't fall into false doctrine. Study the Word. You will find that we are not commanded to tithe. Israel was.

SarahM777 · Nov 18, 2013

J2theC said:

You are aware that the Bible says that one that does not provide for his family is worse than an infidel?

1 Timothy 5

8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Mark 7

9 And he continued, “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe[c] your own traditions!10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’[d] and, ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[e]11 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is Corban (that is, devoted to God)—12 then you no longer let them do anything for their father or mother.13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”

Jesus was harsh on them about setting things aside for God but forgetting their mothers and fathers.

garyarnold · Nov 18, 2013

Tithing today actually shows a lack of faith. Jesus paid the whole price, and you don't have to do anything to be blessed by God. Once you relate tithing to blessing or that tithing somehow makes the other 90% go further, you have missed the whole New Testament teaching of grace.

Tithing today would be harmful to the poor, and let the rich or well-to-do off too easy.

Tithing is the OPPOSITE of being Spirit led.

The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was a tenth. The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of a tenth. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving a tenth.

Once you have ten percent stuck in your brain, you totally ignore the Holy Spirit in your giving.

Are we all not a part of a Royal Priesthood? The scriptures tell us that priests DON'T TITHE (Numbers 18). When you try to tithe today, you not only imply that you are not a part of a Royal Priesthood, but you also imply that Jesus didn't pay the entire price.

According to the scriptures, tithing was not brought down to the individual level as taught in churches today. It was a NATION thing.

Malachi 3:9 (KJV)
9Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

THIS WHOLE NATION. The curse was not on the individual. The blessing was not for the individual. It was a NATION thing, not an individual thing.

Unfortunately, the teaching has been wrong in the churches for over 100 years now and that makes it hard for those who were taught wrong to see the truth."

Notice that when the nation was cursed, even the righteous were taken away with the punishment for the curse. That is why the ancient prophets like Ezekiel and Daniel prophesied DURING THE CAPTIVITY. Jeremiah prophesied of the captivity BEFORE it happened, and was taken away WHEN IT HAPPENED. This should be so easy to see! The blessing and the curse of the law was COLLECTIVE, AS A NATION, not individual. But here in the New Covenant it's all individual. "Save yourselves" from this untoward generation. "Work out your own soul's salvation with fear and trembling," GLORY TO GOD!!!

Pastors who teach you tithe on "your increase" define increase to mean your income plus maybe even more, like gifts, etc. The scriptures are clear that the tithe was on the increase OF THE SEED - PRODUCE, not from anyone's income.

Why don't you tithers move up to the New Testament, a better testament? A superior testament?

KBeing Spirit led, I find myself giving around 30% of my income each month. Just think - if I were had ten percent stuck in my brain, my giving wouldn't be anywhere near what it is.

The scriptures make it clear that tithing ENDED AT THE CROSS in several verses.

In Malachi 3:7, tithing is referred to as an ORDINANCE.
Colossians 2:14 (KJV) “Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

The Bible clearly shows that the tithe ENDED at the cross in the Book of Hebrews. The ONLY place in the Bible, after Calvary, that tithing appears is in Hebrews 7. In the first nine verses of Hebrews 7 the words tenth or tithes appears SEVEN TIMES.

Hebrews 7:5 (KJV) “And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:”

Verse 5 is the first occurrence of the words TITHES, COMMANDMENT and LAW.

Hebrews 7:12 (KJV) “For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.”

Hebrews 7:18 (KJV) “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.”

The word COMMANDMENT in verse 18 must be referring to the word COMMANDMENT in verse 5 which is referring to the tithe.

Therefore, the COMMANDMENT to TITHE was disannulled.

mystdancer50 · Nov 18, 2013

StandingFirmInChrist said:

If you have a dollar and it stays a dollar and you never gain a penny more, by all means, don't tithe. Yet, by the simple definition of the word increase, anything that becomes greater than it was is considered increase. Does your money increase? Then tithe. It truly isn't that big of an issue...unless you love money more than God. Well, then, you have an entirely different issue, don't you?

in·crease

make or become larger or greater: to become, or make something become, larger in number, quantity, or degree
enlargement: a rise to a greater number, quantity, or degree, or the amount by which something is increased
increasing in size: the process of becoming or of making something larger in number, quantity, or degree

mystdancer50 · Nov 18, 2013

garyarnold said:

Though it is true that God blesses His children, tell me what this scripture means, if you're saying that tithing is a lack of faith:

It seems to me that giving is tied to GREATER blessing. So, yes, by all means, refuse to give. That's entirely up to you. But beware calling the faithful in tithing 'faithless'. I think the pride of Christians is the worst sin of all. I don't want to give so I'll say it shows a lack of faith when others give. Now I've heard it all.

StandingFirmInChrist · Nov 18, 2013

mystdancer50 said:

God's Word says His tithe is of agricultural products (Lev. 27:30-33)
mystdancer50 says money is to be tithed

What do we do? Believe mystdancer? or God's Word?

God's Word says the tithe was for the children of Israel (Lev 27:34)
mystdancer50 insists that non Israelites are to tithe

What do we do? Believe mystdancer? or God's Word?

God's Word says the tithe was to be taken to the storehouse in Jerusalem
mystdancer50 says the tithe is to go to the Church

What do we do? Believe mystdancer? or God's Word?

I have God's Word to support my doctrine
mystdancer50 has no Scripture to support hers

What do we do? Believe mystdancer? or God's Word?

StandingFirmInChrist · Nov 18, 2013

mystdancer50 said:

Luke 6:38 has absolutely nothing to do with tithing. It is speaking of almsgiving.

You falsely accuse both nontithers who have Scripture support for their doctrine, saying they don't want to give. That is not true. We do want to give. We just don't want to give because a lying, deceitful preacher tells us we have to.

The Word of God tells us to give as we purpose in our hearts to give. That means we choose the amount we want to give, not some deceitful man who handles the Word of God deceitfully.

garyarnold · Nov 18, 2013

The First Tithe is defined in Leviticus 27:30, 32. This is the tithe that supported the priesthood. The word “increase” isn’t even used.

Leviticus 27:30, 32 (KJV)
30And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S: it is holy unto the LORD.
32And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Leviticus 27:30, 32 (NKJV)
30And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S. It is holy to the LORD.
32And concerning the tithe of the herd or the flock, of whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the LORD.

Leviticus 27:30, 32 (RSV)
30“All the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the trees, is the LORD’S; it is holy to the LORD.
32And all the tithe of herds and flocks, every tenth animal of all that pass under the herdsman’s staff, shall be holy to the LORD.

Leviticus 27:30, 32 (NASB)
30‘Thus all the tithe of the land, of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S; it is holy to the LORD.
32‘For every tenth part of herd or flock, whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the LORD.

Leviticus 27:30, 32 (NRSV)
30All tithes from the land, whether the seed from the ground or the fruit from the tree, are the LORD’S; they are holy to the LORD.
32All tithes of herd and flock, every tenth one that passes under the shepherd’s staff, shall be holy to the LORD.

Leviticus 27:30, 32 (NLT)
30“A tenth of the produce of the land, whether grain or fruit, belongs to the LORD and must be set apart to him as holy.
32The LORD also owns every tenth animal counted off from your herds and flocks. They are set apart to him as holy.

The Second Tithe is defined in Deut. 14:22.

Deuteronomy 14:22 (KJV)
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

Notice it says INCREASE OF THY SEED, THAT THE FIELD BRINGETH FORTH. Doesn’t say all increase from all sources. It is specific.

Deuteronomy 14:22 (NKJV)
22“You shall truly tithe all the increase of your grain that the field produces year by year.

Deuteronomy 14:22 (KJV)
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

Deuteronomy 14:22 (KJV)
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

Deuteronomy 14:22 (KJV)
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.

Deuteronomy 14:22 (NLT)
22“You must set aside a tithe of your crops—one-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year.

The Third Tithe, which was brought every three years is defined in Deut. 14:28.

Deuteronomy 14:28 (KJV)
28At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:

Notice that ONLY in the 3-year tithe does the KJV use “thine increase.” If you continue, you see that “thine increase” is to be EATEN.

Deuteronomy 14:28 (NKJV)
28“At the end of every third year you shall bring out the tithe of your produce of that year and store it up within your gates.

Deuteronomy 14:28 (RSV)
28“At the end of every three years you shall bring forth all the tithe of your produce in the same year, and lay it up within your towns;

Deuteronomy 14:28 (NASB)
28“At the end of every third year you shall bring out all the tithe of your produce in that year, and shall deposit it in your town.

Deuteronomy 14:28 (NRSV)
28Every third year you shall bring out the full tithe of your produce for that year, and store it within your towns;

Deuteronomy 14:28 (NLT)
28“At the end of every third year bring the tithe of all your crops and store it in the nearest town.

mystdancer50 · Nov 18, 2013

Show me where in the Bible God says, "Don't give 10% of your money." It doesn't say that. When looking at the culture of the OT, it was primarily a barter system. Gold and whatnot were used as jewelry and decoration and such, not as money. Later, toward the end of the OT and the NT, money started to become a currency, due to Roman influence.

Here's the deal: I have no issue with you not tithing. As I've said, do whatever you want. You alone will answer to God in this area, just as I will. The issue I have is the fact that one of you said that tithing showed a lack of faith and the fact that people are actually discouraging others from tithing. Really? Beware of pride. The Bible specifically says that if you cause one to stumble, it is better that a millstone be tied around your neck and you be drowned. There is a grave danger here where, in order to justify not tithing, one aggressively argues against tithing. Who can know the heart of God?

In response to the 'lack of faith' thing, tithing actually shows greater faith, as one says, "I believe/trust that God can do more with 90% than I can with 100%."

And, if I had the time, or even the concern, I would word search all those scriptures and refute you, but ultimately, all I'd be doing is arguing with prideful folks that want to not tithe. Don't tithe, just beware of encouraging others to do the same. If tithing money really is something God desires, and you convince someone otherwise based on your opinion, then woe unto you. I would rather give God 10% than make money an idol in my life.

And, as is always the case, I never should have commented in this thread, because, truly, you just can't argue with pride. All you do is talk in circles and end up frustrated. So, I leave you to it and with this simple statement:

Tithe or don't tithe. It is ENTIRELY up to you. But do not call something godly profane or of the devil. Leave the tithers to their tithe and the nontithers to their free will offerings and the like. Don't cause someone to stumble just because you want to justify your choices. That is the true danger.

Ugly · Nov 18, 2013

The 10% tithe was a temple tax for the priests. We no longer have temple priests, so the tax/tithe is no longer relevant.

garyarnold · Nov 18, 2013

mystdancer50 said:

Really?

Many say that in Biblical times they didn’t have money and that the economy was based on bartering of goods and services. That is not so. The Bible shows they not only had money, but that money was used as a common way of doing business.

According to the International Bible Encyclopedia, the days of mere bartering ended before the days of Abraham.

Here are just a few example from The Word to show they did, in fact, use money in Biblical times.

The tithing law itself proves they had both money and a marketing system for buying and selling their crops and animals

Deuteronomy 14:24-26 (KJV)
24And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

THE PURCHASE OF LAND BY ABRAHAM
Genesis 23:15-16 (KJV)
15My lord, hearken unto me: the land is worth four hundred shekels of silver; what is that betwixt me and thee? bury therefore thy dead.
16And Abraham hearkened unto Ephron; and Abraham weighed to Ephron the silver, which he had named in the audience of the sons of Heth, four hundred shekels of silver, current money with the merchant.

THE PURCHASE OF LAND BY JACOB
Genesis 33:19 (KJV)
19And he bought a parcel of a field, where he had spread his tent, at the hand of the children of Hamor, Shechem’s father, for an hundred pieces of money.

JOSEPH WAS SOLD TO THE ISHMEELITES
Genesis 37:28 (KJV)
28Then there passed by Midianites merchantmen; and they drew and lifted up Joseph out of the pit, and sold Joseph to the Ishmeelites for twenty pieces of silver: and they brought Joseph into Egypt.

A MONEY OFFERING TO BE USED FOR THE SERVICE OF THE TABERNACLE
Exodus 30:14-16 (KJV)
14Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.
15The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when they give an offering unto the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.
16And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.

USING SHEKEL OF SILVER TO VALUE A RAM
Leviticus 5:15 (KJV)
15If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering:

THE FOLLOWING VERSES REFER TO WAGES:
Genesis 29:15 (KJV)
15And Laban said unto Jacob, Because thou art my brother, shouldest thou therefore serve me for nought? tell me, what shall thy wages be?

Genesis 30:28 (KJV)
28And he said, Appoint me thy wages, and I will give it.

Genesis 31:7-8 (KJV)
7And your father hath deceived me, and changed my wages ten times; but God suffered him not to hurt me.
8If he said thus, The speckled shall be thy wages; then all the cattle bare speckled: and if he said thus, The ringstreaked shall be thy hire; then bare all the cattle ringstreaked.

Genesis 31:41 (KJV)
41Thus have I been twenty years in thy house; I served thee fourteen years for thy two daughters, and six years for thy cattle: and thou hast changed my wages ten times.

Exodus 2:9 (KJV)
9And Pharaoh’s daughter said unto her, Take this child away, and nurse it for me, and I will give thee thy wages. And the woman took the child, and nursed it.

Leviticus 19:13 (KJV)
13Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.

In Malachi 3:5 God threatened to come near you for judgment for those who defraud laborers of their wages.

THEY HAD A MONEY STANDARD

There are several places in Scripture indicating that scales were used to weigh metals and other items. The Law of Moses, for example, commands Jews not to use dishonest standards, but instead, to use honest scales and honest weights. (See also Deut. 25:13-15; Job 6:2-3; 31:6; Psa. 62:9; Prov. 11:1; 16:11; 20:10, 23; Isa. 40:12; 46:6; and Jer. 32:10).

Leviticus 19:35-36 – Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight or quantity. Use honest scales and honest weights, an honest ephah and an honest hin. I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt.

In order for money to be an exchangeable equivalent for other commodities in today’s society, there must be a standard in place. Likewise, the Old Testament also had a set standard both prior to the law and during the law. A reference to a pre-law standard is in Genesis:23:16.

Merchants in biblical times traveled from place to place conducting business. According to the written law, the standard weight for metals was set according to the sanctuary shekel (See also Ex 30:13, 24; 38:24-26; Lev. 5:15; Num. 7:13-86; 18:16).

Leviticus 27:25 – Every value is to be set according to the sanctuary shekel, …

In addition, 2 Samuel 14:26 shows that the weight standard for the shekel was set by the royal standard. No matter which era in history is studied, there existed a standard for the weight of precious metals.

Money was also used throughout the law. For example, God’s people gave money to support the tabernacle (Ex. 30:14-16; 38:24-31). There are many other examples that illustrate money’s place within the written law and indicate that money was indeed a part of everyday life. Exodus 35 provides such an example.

Exodus 35:5, 21-22 – From what you have, take an offering for the LORD. Everyone who is willing is to bring to the LORD an offering of gold, silver and bronze;

And there are many more examples to show that money was used for everyday transactions well before the Levitical tithe.

garyarnold · Nov 18, 2013

Ugly said:

To be accurate, the tithe was NOT a Temple Tax. The Temple Tax was IN ADDITION to the tithe, and was paid with money. In the KJV, the Temple Tax is referred to as tribute.

The tithe was NOT for the priests. It was given to the NON-priest Levites (Numbers 18) who then were commanded to give a tenth of the tithe they received to the priest.

J2theC · Nov 18, 2013

This has been an interesting thread for me, I have never heard many of these things before. I very much appreciate the opportunity to read all of your input, thanks.

There has been loads of in-depth scripture that has been examined and stated to support that 'mandatory tithing' is inappropriate because 'that was then and this is now' (sorry for the paraphrase).

Where is all the scripture that states Gods wishes on exactly what he wants us to do with our money now? I know that 'cheerful giving' has been stated. Is that all God asks of us? Give cheerfully?

StandingFirmInChrist · Nov 19, 2013

J2theC said:

The guidelines on financial stewardship are found in 2 Corinthians 8 & 9. There is also a verse in 1 Timothy 5.

2 Corinthians 8:12-13 For if there be first a willing mind, it is accepted according to that a man hath, and not according to that he hath not. For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

1 Timothy 5:8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

We are to be faithful stewards with our money, using it wisely. This honors God more than giving it to someone who is lying in order to get it.

God does not want us to be burdened financially because of our giving to others. We should give only if we are able to give.

God also expects us to make sure family needs are met first and foremost when it comes to finances. If the child needs a coat, buy him a coat before giving the money away. If the table needs food, make sure you buy food.

Also, we can use this verse:

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

If you have a debt, you should pay that debt before giving the money away. Owed money is not your money.

Hope that helps.

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TITHING???

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