What Laws are still valid to christians

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john832

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May 31, 2013
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But Peter himself said that the law of Moses was an impossible burden to keep, and said that those who teach the law of Moses must be kept are provoking GOD.

So now why are you putting God to the test by placing on the neck of the disciples a yoke [of the law of Moses] that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus in the same way those also are.” Acts 15:10-11​
Ah, but what was he referring to?

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

There were those who were teaching that salvation was earned by keeping this law and also many others that the Pahrisees had added.

Israel knew they were taken into captivity primarily for breaking two Commandments, idolatry and Sabbath breaking...

Eze 20:15 Yet also I lifted up my hand unto them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands;
Eze 20:16 Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.
Eze 20:17 Nevertheless mine eye spared them from destroying them, neither did I make an end of them in the wilderness.
Eze 20:18 But I said unto their children in the wilderness, Walk ye not in the statutes of your fathers, neither observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols:
Eze 20:19 I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;
Eze 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.
Eze 20:21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.
Eze 20:22 Nevertheless I withdrew mine hand, and wrought for my name's sake, that it should not be polluted in the sight of the heathen, in whose sight I brought them forth.
Eze 20:23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;
Eze 20:24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.

For some strange reason (a carry over from Egypt), ancient Israel was fixated on idols of calves. They also did not keep the Sabbaths. So, the Scribes and Pharisees added to the Law safeguards, fences around the Law. God nowhere tells us how far to travel on the Sabbath. He nowhere tells us what a burden is on the Sabbath. He really doesn't tell us how much work we can do on the Sabbath (preparing meals, bathing, dressing ourselves, etc.) but the Pharisees sure did. They did not want anyone even getting close to breaking the Sabbath again because they feared another captivity. So they came up with a lot of extremely stringent regulations that are not what God intended. He intended that one day a week, we spend our time with Him, but not as if we are imprisoned on the Sabbath...

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

We are not made to be imprisoned by the Sabbath, we are made to enjoy a wonderful day communing with our Creator...

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

Let's read a few verses prior to this...

Mar 2:23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.
Mar 2:24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

Know what the accusation here is? They were accusing the disciples of harvesting and threshing grain. The disciples were pulling off heads of grain and rubbing them in their hands to remove the chaff from the grain and the Pharisees accused them of harvesting and threshing grain, thereby breaking the Sabbath. This is why Christ had such harsh words for the Pharisees. From another example of the disciples eating without the benefit of the Pharisaical traditional washing routine...

Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Ah, but what was he referring to?

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

There were those who were teaching that salvation was earned by keeping this law and also many others that the Pahrisees had added.
Surely you're not suggesting that circumcision was a law that neither the apostles nor their fathers were able to bear? Someone must have done an really bad hack job on them when they were 8 days old for them to still be in so much pain. Maybe it was the unbearable grief of missing a part of their body for so long? Phantom pain perhaps?

Circumcision was not the unbearable yoke that Peter was referring to. Becoming circumcised bound one to the law, which was an unbearable burden. He said this even after being saved and filled with the spirit.
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Circumcision was not the unbearable yoke that Peter was referring to. Becoming circumcised bound one to the law, which was an unbearable burden.

Surely you're not suggesting that circumcision was a law that neither the apostles nor their fathers were able to bear? Someone must have done an really bad hack job on them when they were 8 days old for them to still be in so much pain. Maybe it was the unbearable grief of missing a part of their body for so long? Phantom pain perhaps?
You keep saying that keeping the Commandments is an unbearable burden, yet we read...


1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Not what God inspired John to write.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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You keep saying that keeping the Commandments is an unbearable burden, yet we read...


1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Not what God inspired John to write.
This is what John was referring to:

And this is [GOD's] commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23​
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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This is what John was referring to:

And this is [GOD's] commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1 John 3:23​
Nope...

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

Plural (The Ten Commandments)

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Singular, the overall guiding principle here is the Law of Love, Love God (That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ) and Love neighbor (and love one another)

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

And again back to plural (the Ten Commandments)

God defines how to love Him and how to love our neighbor. He doesn't leave that up to us. (Oh just go love your neighbor - that would lead to over 7 billion definitions of how to do this.) You do know that in some cultures promiscuity is perfectly acceptable? They are just going around loving their neighbors. Hmmm, you suppose that is acceptable to God? When God's definition of love is taken out of the picture, many definitions coud be used and after all, who is to say which one is correct?

God does. He does so in His Law.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Romans 14 is not about the Sabbath. It is about judging a weaker brother...

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

And two subjects are dealt with, vegetarianism...

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

And fast days...

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Notice...

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

did they fast twice in a week? Yep. On particular days? Yep! From John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible...

I fast twice in the week,.... Not "on the sabbath", as the words may be literally rendered, and as they are in the Vulgate Latin and Ethiopic versions; for the sabbath was not a fasting, but a feasting day with the Jews; for they were obliged to eat three meals, or feasts, on a sabbath day, one in the morning, another at evening, and another at the time of the meat offering: even the poorest man in Israel, who was maintained by alms, was obliged to keep these three feasts (f). It was forbidden a man to fast, until the sixth hour, on a sabbath day; that is, till noon (g): wherefore, it is a great mistake in Justin (h) and Suetonius (i), that the sabbath was kept by the Jews as a fast. But the word is rightly rendered, "in the week"; the whole seven days, or week, were by the Jews commonly called the sabbath; hence, , "the first of the sabbath", and the second of the sabbath, and the third of the sabbath (k); that is, the first, second, and third days of the week. Now the two days in the week on which they fasted were Monday and Thursday, the second and fifth days; on which days the law of Moses, and the book of Esther were read, by the order of Ezra (l); and fasts for the congregation were appointed on those days (m); and so a private person, or a single man, as in this instance, took upon him, or chose to fast on the same (n): the reason of this is, by some, said to be, because Moses went up to Mount Sinai on a Thursday, and came down on a Monday (o). But though these men fasted so often, they took care not to hurt themselves; for they allowed themselves to eat in the night till break of day. It is asked (p),

First notice that they did not fast on the Sabbath. Secondly, they fasted on Monday and Thursday. Paul is addressing those who thought if one did not fast on Monday and Thursday they were somehow weaker and inferior to the those who did. He was addressing fasting on Monday and Thursday.

Romans 14 is not about the Sabbath at all.
Romans 14 is about not judging another, weaker or stronger, for it is god that gets one t stand not man
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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i know that did you not read my other post saying Romans 14 is not about sabbath but about fasting . You will never find the word sabbath mentioned in the chapter
What laws are still valuable, only to show me my need for Christ and if want scripture about Sabbath here oyu go.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
 

homwardbound

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Oct 24, 2012
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Not sure if I understand your post, but mine was a reply to my firend Homewardbound. Although we disagree, I still consider him a friend.
Bless you and Thank you and me to you too, it is great to be able to agree to disagree and then take whatever to the Lord in us and ask it to be sorted out in truth that sets and keeps us free from Bondage
for it is the:
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

So if I am not free, and in bondage at all, then there must be error in my truth and just maybe I might need to re-think my truth since it is the truth that sets one free yes?
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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To wordsponge, Please don't send me any material about your legalistic heresy, like "Sunday is the beast day of worship" I believe like Homwardbound that any day of the week is ok to worship on, but, we do have the example of Christians worshiping on Sunday" the first day" Some churches worship on Sat. and Sun. that is good. To Homwardbound, I still say, you talk wrong when you say Jesus did (all the work for our salvation on the cross) all we do is to believe it. This is wrong. Lk. 24:47 " repentance and remission of sins" AND Acts2:38 "Repent, and let everyone of you be baptized" AND 1Pet.3:21 "There is also an antitype which now saves us-baptism...the answer of a good conscience toward God" AND Heb.5:9 "..He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him," Please bring more verses into your salvation program. God's plan of sal. is very deep, but any one open to the words of the Bible can easily see what
God requires for sal.: Repent of sin, trust and obey Jesus. Love to all Hoffco
Thanks Hoffco, we are all growing in the amazing GRACE of God through Son are we not?
for each of us has their story do we not?

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
Lesson our judgement of others. We never see the whole picture. Never.
there are 1,000 reasons a person can behave a particular way. We don't know what is going on in their movie that motivates them to act in that way. I never know how I'd behave if I were in the other shoes. Today little by little, it would be good to learn to be more forgiving. Learn to where we can come from a place of help, rather than Judgement.

Judgements are only based on what one sees, from their owns thoughts. From their own experiences. There is truly only one that knows all. that one would be and is the creator of all.
If one learns to listen to the creator as Jesus Christ revealed to all mankind. (Christ taught us, to do nothing or say nothing w/o Father's instruction first and foremost), we would make the right judgements, with out condemnation. ( coming from the one listening),much less likely
The ones that argued would reveal their true selves, as was done in the day of visitation from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Steer clear from arguements, seek the truth in all things and one shall be free from the world and it's traps.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I can't help thinking you're taking issue with my comments just for the sake of it.

The law is holy, and to be used rightly. It is not a substitute for faith, nor a replacement for spirit.

The law is our teacher. Lol! You wouldn't actually believe it. Every American bible commentary I read now has pages and pages of rubbish about how people should no longer obey the law, especially in relation to male/female relations. That is why I have banished them all. I only use pretty old commentaries now.

Yes, the law has fallen into disrepute even amongst Christians. Especially the Trinitarian churches.

Then the law is also abused e.g. tithing. I would never ever contemplate going to a tithing church, as that is simply law-abuse.

The secret is (a) to know the law, (b) to know which laws are required to be obeyed, and especially those are, as I have said, human relations and human/divine relations, (c) to be able to recognize when the law is being abused.

I am absolutely appalled by what goes on in most churches. I believe the majority are forsaken by God, because they despise his law, and his Spirit cannot work.
I do understand what you say so maybe

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY
Lesson our judgement of others. We never see the whole picture. Never.
there are 1,000 reasons a person can behave a particular way. We don't know what is going on in their movie that motivates them to act in that way. I never know how I'd behave if I were in the other shoes. Today little by little, it would be good to learn to be more forgiving. Learn to where we can come from a place of help, rather than Judgement.

Judgements are only based on what one sees, from their owns thoughts. From their own experiences. There is truly only one that knows all. that one would be and is the creator of all.
If one learns to listen to the creator as Jesus Christ revealed to all mankind. (Christ taught us, to do nothing or say nothing w/o Father's instruction first and foremost), we would make the right judgements, with out condemnation. ( coming from the one listening),much less likely
The ones that argued would reveal their true selves, as was done in the day of visitation from our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Steer clear from arguements, seek the truth in all things and one shall be free from the world and it's traps.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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I wonder what really under law means


Romans 3:19

Now we know that what things so ever the Law saith,
it saith to them who are under the Law: That every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Romans 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the Law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: For by the Law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 6:14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

It is just showing the fight of flesh that can't be perfect and God's Spirit new life that makes you perfect at no account to the self. Only to God in thanksgiving and praise as King David saw ahead to Christ and stated this in Psalms 100:4
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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that no flesh can be perfect at obeying it, showing ones need for Christ in totality
And I agree with this. Only one man ever obeyed perfectly, Jesus Christ, but we are still to strive to obey. We can have the heart to obey. That is the crux of the teaching of the New Covenant...

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

And when we stumble and falter...

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Paul is saying in verse 19 that the law, the Ten Commandments was to stop the mouth of every sinner that they will know that they are all guilty before God without Christ, for by the Law he said in verse 20 is the knowledge of SIN. In the book of 1Jn3:4 the apostle John supports Paul by saying.

Whosoever committeth SIN transgresseth also the Law: for SIN is the transgression of the Law. The obvious question now is, is there sin in the world? And the equally obvious answer is YES. Since SIN is still in this world then God’s Ten Commandments must be still binding upon us.

Paul says in Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the Law through faith? God forbid; yea we establish the law. There are no contradictions here beloved, the Ten Commandments are still binding on us today, Both apostles Paul & John explains clearly that its purpose is to identify SIN, Paul further makes it clear that we cannot make void the Ten Commandments, GOD forbids it Rom8:31.
Yes in this world yes, truth to a tee. Have you ever crossed or tried to cross over a picket line?
That is what is still going on today in this world a picket line. Flesh is in rebellion, and wants not you, me or anyone to cross over into rest with the Lord. It has and continues to get people to work and stress out, keeping them here in there flesh efforts to be noticed, being led by how they feel over truth. Hiding the doorway to new life here and now in God's Spirit through the cross of Christ.
Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
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What laws are still valuable, only to show me my need for Christ and if want scripture about Sabbath here oyu go.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which says not to allow someone to judge you FOR KEEPING the Sabbath and the Holydays. It does not obliterate them. Rather we have this...

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Rest being Sabbatismos. From Dr. Bullinger's...

Hebrews 4:9


rest = a Rest Day. i.e. the great day of "rest" under the rule of the great "Priest (King) upon His throne". See Zec_6:13. Greek. sabbatismos. Only here. The verb sabbatizo, to keep sabbath, occurs several times in the Septuagint

Sabbatismos means keeping the Sabbath. Even the margin in the KJV renders it this way.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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God said he will write his LAWS in our minds and our hearts, this he does through the Holy Spirit. This is the very LAWS that were on the tablets of stones. David said “I have seen an end of all perfection but thy Commandments are exceedingly broad.” Halleluiah. Gods Laws shall never come to an end. Christ said, concerning the commandments. “Heaven and earth may pass away but not one jot nor a title shall in no wise pass from the LAW.”

Let God be true and all men be liars. It is interesting to note that when ever someone says that the LAW is abolished, what they really want to say is that the Sabbath of the Lord is abolished, for they USUALLY keep the other nine but the easiest of them all they seem to have problem with.

No sorry he wrote on my heart his love as described in 1 Cor. 13:4-13 which is the fulfillment of all law and Prophets, and I you Brother ass God has and does right to this very day
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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No, John didn't say anything about THE LAW. He said whoever commits sin commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. That's what the Greek says. Look it up.

If the 10 commandments have authority over you, you are not in Christ.
God's love has the authority over me and is the fulfillment of all the first Testament commands. Free in and through Christ to love all as unconditionally as God has and does love me through Son
Entering his courts with thanksgiving and praise, thank you Jesus to take it all away and impute your love in me that no flesh comprehends