What Laws are still valid to christians

[JGIG]

OK, what prevents one from adultery? Taking God's name in vain? Lying? After all there is no Law.

Are you in Christ?

Do you want to commit adultery? Take God's name in vain? Lie? (Murder, steal, etc.)

Is the Law what restrains you from doing those or other acts of sin?

The Scripture says that the Law makes nothing perfect (Heb. 7:19).

The Scripture also says that the Law actually increases sinning:

Law was given to increase sinning:

Romans 5:20
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.

Law stirs up sinning:

Romans 7:7-8
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.

Law produces death:

Romans 7:9-11
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it [the commandment] killed me.

Law produces fruit unto death:

Romans 7:5
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

Law is the power of sin:

1 Corinthians 15:56
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
​

On the other hand, what do Grace and the Spirit produce?

Grace teaches us godliness:

Titus 2:11-14
11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It [grace] teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

The Spirit produces life:

Romans 8:5-6
5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; (see also Romans 12:1-2, 2 Corinthians 10:4-6, and Ephesians 6:14-17)

The Spirit produces the Fruits of the Spirit:

Galatians 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
​

​

If a reduction in sin is your goal, then Law is definitely not the way to go according to the Scriptures.

How there is even a debate . . . I get it, but I don’t get it.
​

A better way has been introduced in Christ and the New Covenant ratified in His Blood; one in which we are led by Grace and His Spirit. It's a better way by which we draw near to God; there is no condemnation, and in Christ God is not counting our sins against us.

Sinning is driven underground by the Law - people hide what they're doing and the fruit inevitably pops out as works of the flesh (see Galatians 5).

When one walks in the Grace of God, sinning is brought out into the Light where it can be dealt with under the loving Hand of our Father.

Romans 5:20-21
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.​

Grace is what makes us sin less, not Law.

-JGIG

 

[john832]

Does the release bird represent the devil also ?
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]There was another service where two birds were required for the cleansing of a person with an infectious disease. The priest was to take two birds, and slay one of them and the other was dipped in its blood and then released. Lev. 14:1-7. There are differences in the two services.

For the scapegoat was not dipped in the blood of the slain goat. However there are similarities, as one bird being slain and the other released.

There is no doubt that the slain bird represented Jesus’ shed blood on Calvary, setting people free from the condemnation of sin. The bird set free represents Jesus removing the sins and setting people free from the penalty of sin which is death[/FONT]

Atonement occurs one day of the year...

Lev 16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

Lev 16:29 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:
Lev 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
Lev 16:31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.
Lev 16:32 And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:
Lev 16:33 And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.
Lev 16:34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.

Notice that this is an everlasting statute? And also notice how it is tied into Hebrews...

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

 

[Isdaniel]

So, why do you think I kill animals and live in a booth made of palm branches for eight days? One point of the feast of tabernacles (temporary dwellings) is to teach this lesson...

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

And of course there are others.

So you really kill animals like how the priest did it and do all the ceremonies hmmm welll david dwell in a house hmmm God wants us to dwell in mansions hmmm they shall build tents nope it says they shall build houses

 

[Isdaniel]

Are you in Christ?

Do you want to commit adultery? Take God's name in vain? Lie? (Murder, steal, etc.)

Is the Law what restrains you from doing those or other acts of sin?

The Scripture says that the Law makes nothing perfect (Heb. 7:19).

The Scripture also says that the Law actually increases sinning:

Law was given to increase sinning:

Romans 5:20
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.

Law stirs up sinning:

Romans 7:7-8
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.

Law produces death:

Romans 7:9-11
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it [the commandment] killed me.

Law produces fruit unto death:

Romans 7:5
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.

Law is the power of sin:

1 Corinthians 15:56
56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
​

On the other hand, what do Grace and the Spirit produce?

Grace teaches us godliness:

Titus 2:11-14
11For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. 12It [grace] teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

The Spirit produces life:

Romans 8:5-6
5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; (see also Romans 12:1-2, 2 Corinthians 10:4-6, and Ephesians 6:14-17)

The Spirit produces the Fruits of the Spirit:

Galatians 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
​

​

If a reduction in sin is your goal, then Law is definitely not the way to go according to the Scriptures.

How there is even a debate . . . I get it, but I don’t get it.
​

A better way has been introduced in Christ and the New Covenant ratified in His Blood; one in which we are led by Grace and His Spirit. It's a better way by which we draw near to God; there is no condemnation, and in Christ God is not counting our sins against us.

Sinning is driven underground by the Law - people hide what they're doing and the fruit inevitably pops out as works of the flesh (see Galatians 5).

When one walks in the Grace of God, sinning is brought out into the Light where it can be dealt with under the loving Hand of our Father.

Romans 5:20-21
20 The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21 so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.​

Grace is what makes us sin less, not Law.

-JGIG

do you sin ?

What is Sin ?

 

[john832]

Are you in Christ?

Do you want to commit adultery? Take God's name in vain? Lie? (Murder, steal, etc.)

-JGIG

And if there is no Law, why would it matter?

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Paul plainly says there is no sin if there is no Law. So if your assertion is correct and there is no Law, I don't sin.

Come to think of it, if there is no Law and I don't sin, what do I need Christ's sacrifice for? I don't sin so I don't need my sins covered by His blood.

You are teaching foolishness.

 

[Isdaniel]

Atonement occurs one day of the year...

Lev 16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the vail before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

Lev 16:29 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you:
Lev 16:30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD.
Lev 16:31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.
Lev 16:32 And the priest, whom he shall anoint, and whom he shall consecrate to minister in the priest's office in his father's stead, shall make the atonement, and shall put on the linen clothes, even the holy garments:
Lev 16:33 And he shall make an atonement for the holy sanctuary, and he shall make an atonement for the tabernacle of the congregation, and for the altar, and he shall make an atonement for the priests, and for all the people of the congregation.
Lev 16:34 And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.

Notice that this is an everlasting statute? And also notice how it is tied into Hebrews...

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

You dont get the point all the sacrifies to God poited to Jesus all for they were for forgivness of sins etc

 

[john832]

So you really kill animals like how the priest did it and do all the ceremonies hmmm welll david dwell in a house hmmm God wants us to dwell in mansions hmmm they shall build tents nope it says they shall build houses

No, I ask you why you would think that I would. I went back and edited my post, because after I read it, I could see how it could be confused. I was really asking why do you suppose that I would? Christ is the sacrifice, but the lesson of the Millenium and that we are still strangers and pilgrims in the world is still valid and still taught by the Feast. It is also a celebration of the coming Millenium.

 

[john832]

You dont get the point all the sacrifies to God poited to Jesus all for they were for forgivness of sins etc

Yes I do, they were the schoolmaster that leads us to Christ. That is made plain in Gal.

 

[john832]

You dont get the point all the sacrifies to God poited to Jesus all for they were for forgivness of sins etc

The point is that Atonement is the shadow of the perfect sacrifice for mankind, past present and future. As far as debating whether I should keep the Feast Days, I am as admant as flint in the matter.

 

[JGIG]

You're right; Colossians is not speaking only of the Ten Commandments; is talking about the entirety of the Law

.

In the Garden, what did Satan use against Adam and Eve? What was his only weapon?

The only law in place at the time; do not eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

The Law is what stands against mankind, as it condemns because of sin.

Colossians 2:13-15
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

​

For those in Christ, the Law - all of it - was cancelled at the Cross.

We walk in Grace and are led by the Spirit:

Galatians 5:18
If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.​

-JGIG

I am not agreeing with what you said .

The ten Commandments were not nailed to the cross nor was it our sins
What was nailed to the cross was the ceremonial laws

Really? Ceremonial, Old Covenant Law is what stood against us in God's sight and needed to be nailed to the Cross? The Ceremonial Laws are what condemned us?

The Big Ten don't condemn if violated?

Read it again:

Colossians 2:13-15
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.​

-JGIG

 

[Isdaniel]

The point is that Atonement is the shadow of the perfect sacrifice for mankind, past present and future. As far as debating whether I should keep the Feast Days, I am as admant as flint in the matter.

I applaud you for that

 

[Isdaniel]

The point is that Atonement is the shadow of the perfect sacrifice for mankind, past present and future. As far as debating whether I should keep the Feast Days, I am as admant as flint in the matter.

Dont forget to circumcise also ok

 

[Isdaniel]

Really? Ceremonial, Old Covenant Law is what stood against us in God's sight and needed to be nailed to the Cross? The Ceremonial Laws are what condemned us?

The Big Ten don't condemn if violated?

Read it again:

Colossians 2:13-15
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.​

-JGIG

Is the ten commadments ordinances or not ?

 

[Isdaniel]

Really? Ceremonial, Old Covenant Law is what stood against us in God's sight and needed to be nailed to the Cross? The Ceremonial Laws are what condemned us?

The Big Ten don't condemn if violated?

Read it again:

Colossians 2:13-15
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.​

-JGIG

Paul's very language to the Christians at Colosse proves he had reference to the shadowy ceremonies which pointed forward to and ended at the cross. Notice carefully his words in Colossians 2:14: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross."

As plain as he can make it, Paul declares they were "ordinances" that were nailed to the cross. They were ordinances that would be "contrary" to the faith of Christians to observe. In fact he declares that the observance of these would be "against us." Now for the use of some good common sense. Would it be contrary to Christian faith and practice and against Christian principle to refrain from idolatry, profanity, Sabbath desecration, dishonoring parents, murder, theft, adultery, lying, and coveting?

How could it be "contrary" to Christian principle and "against us" to refrain from the immoralities and vices condemned by the Ten Commandments? How unreasonable to think that Paul was arguing thus! He was talking of another law which enjoined meat offerings, drink offerings, the observance of feasts, new moons, and yearly sabbaths.

 

[Isdaniel]

Really? Ceremonial, Old Covenant Law is what stood against us in God's sight and needed to be nailed to the Cross? The Ceremonial Laws are what condemned us?

The Big Ten don't condemn if violated?

Read it again:

Colossians 2:13-15
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.​

-JGIG

Why would the observance of these ceremonies after the death of Christ be contrary to Christian faith and teachings? The answer is easy. Take the Passover sabbath that came during the first month every year. The killing of the Passover lamb typified the death of the Lamb of God. To offer it after His death would be saying, in figure, that Jesus had not died. It would be a repudiation of His death and atoning blood. Surely such an observance would be contrary to the teachings of Christianity. The apostle Paul declares,

"For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us" (1 Corinthians 5:7). All the other typical ordinances in this law pointed to the death of Jesus on the cross, too. All these feasts, meat and drink offerings, and sabbaths that were nailed to the cross, Paul declares, were "a shadow of things to come"; and then he adds, "But the body is of Christ." That is, the body, or substance, that casts these shadows was Christ's body on the cross.

 

[john832]

Dont forget to circumcise also ok

Well I hope you are circumcised...

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

We are to be circumcised...

Deu 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

And God has always intended the circumcision to be that or the heart.

 

[Isdaniel]

Really? Ceremonial, Old Covenant Law is what stood against us in God's sight and needed to be nailed to the Cross? The Ceremonial Laws are what condemned us?

The Big Ten don't condemn if violated?

Read it again:

Colossians 2:13-15
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.​

-JGIG

[h=3]Hebrews 10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

 

[john832]

Why would the observance of these ceremonies after the death of Christ be contrary to Christian faith and teachings? The answer is easy. Take the Passover sabbath that came during the first month every year. The killing of the Passover lamb typified the death of the Lamb of God. To offer it after His death would be saying, in figure, that Jesus had not died. It would be a repudiation of His death and atoning blood. Surely such an observance would be contrary to the teachings of Christianity. The apostle Paul declares,

"For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us" (1 Corinthians 5:7). All the other typical ordinances in this law pointed to the death of Jesus on the cross, too. All these feasts, meat and drink offerings, and sabbaths that were nailed to the cross, Paul declares, were "a shadow of things to come"; and then he adds, "But the body is of Christ." That is, the body, or substance, that casts these shadows was Christ's body on the cross.

And this is why Jesus Christ Himself changed the symbols to the bread and wine on the Passover in 31 AD.

 

[john832]

do you sin ?

What is Sin ?

I'll bet she doesn't think she does and I'll bet she doesn't know what sin is.

 

[JGIG]

And if there is no Law, why would it matter?

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Paul plainly says there is no sin if there is no Law. So if your assertion is correct and there is no Law, I don't sin.

Come to think of it, if there is no Law and I don't sin, what do I need Christ's sacrifice for? I don't sin so I don't need my sins covered by His blood.

You are teaching foolishness.

Wow, you're so close to getting this .

Romans 7:4-6
4 Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 6But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code.

Galatians 2:19-21
19 “For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”​

For those who have been crucified with Christ have died to the Law. There is no Law for them; and where there is no Law, there is no transgression imputed to them, as your references above testify.

2 Corinthians 5:17-19
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them.​

The Law still matters; it shows the unsaved their sin and their need for Christ - the 'schoolmaster', 'tutor', 'guardian' brings us to Christ and then, according to Scripture,

Galatians 3:23-25
23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.​

Do we who are in Christ still sin? Yes - as long as we are in the flesh, we will sin. As we walk in Grace and by His Spirit, however, our sinning will become less over time. But for those in Christ, our sinning is not counted against us - Christ dealt with all sin at the Cross. And as the references above testify, those in Christ are dead to the Law, and where there is no Law, there is no transgression.

Sinning is destructive and distracts us from the will of God in our lives, along with bringing unpleasant consequences into our lives, and we are exhorted to not sin in the New Covenant Scriptures. But if we who are in Christ do sin, God is not counting our sins against us. If He did, there would have to be more sacrificing, and that's not going to happen. Christ's Sacrifice was Perfect and once for all, for all time.

-JGIG