Hard rock a sin?

[Tintin]

Dudes, this is an ancient thread.

 

[RedTent]

It is impossible for me to accept the idea that rock music leads to the spiritual development of man. Rock teaches the secular, it teaches the physical. The most you can say for it is that it leads to being physicaliy enthusiastic. It isn't for quiet reflective prayer.

It always plays a part in ungodly activities, although that can't be said about any other style of music. I can't imagine a strip club playing even such as Strauss.

Any student of classical music knows that music has always reflected the culture of the times it is written in. When most people lived quietly in the country, music was quiet. As life got more complicated, so did music. You know that even in later popular music you can almost tell the decade a piece was composed in even if you hadn't heard it before, and the music gives you a history of the times.

Anyone who hears hard rock is not reminded of a culture of people who live by the love they feel for God. The music talks of rebellion, even when that style of music is used for praise of the Lord. The praise of God is never prayerful, reverent praise.

 

[RedTent]

Dudes, this is an ancient thread.

So what? It is interesting. You and my grandson agree about music, I respect you both and listen to most of what both of you say. I WISH I could see music as the two of you see it. I just don't think either of you are right about it.

I has hurt me so that I have walked outside of our church until our little drummer got done pounding on things. I know, my grandson told me what you are going to say.

 

[ServantStrike]

It is impossible for me to accept the idea that rock music leads to the spiritual development of man. Rock teaches the secular, it teaches the physical. The most you can say for it is that it leads to being physicaliy enthusiastic. It isn't for quiet reflective prayer.

It always plays a part in ungodly activities, although that can't be said about any other style of music. I can't imagine a strip club playing even such as Strauss.

Any student of classical music knows that music has always reflected the culture of the times it is written in. When most people lived quietly in the country, music was quiet. As life got more complicated, so did music. You know that even in later popular music you can almost tell the decade a piece was composed in even if you hadn't heard it before, and the music gives you a history of the times.

Anyone who hears hard rock is not reminded of a culture of people who live by the love they feel for God. The music talks of rebellion, even when that style of music is used for praise of the Lord. The praise of God is never prayerful, reverent praise.

You used the word never.

My parents always used to say they stopped listening to me whenever they heard the words "always" or "never." I'm not bolding this for you, but I did a lot of reading here to find it so I'm bolding it for people who skip posts (I know you don't).

A full symphony is as loud in dB as a machine gun at peak, and as loud as a lawn mower on average.

Classical music was secular in it's day too! It still is, many of the songs handed down through the generations aren't any more about God than our secular music is today. Sure, they might not have used any "naughty words" but some of it is very ungodly, and some of the artists were themselves, very godless.

Who do you think paid the musicians to write music and perform it for them at a time when people had very little disposable income? The rich upper classes who engaged in godless life styles. Were there some very Godly gems among these songs, yes, absolutely. But you're making a broad and sweeping generalization about another form of music while holding another one up on a pedestal.

And there were people who argued that the piano was a terrible idea and harpsichord was the way things should be done because that is the way things were always done - I kid you not. Things change, languages change, music changes. The only constant in all of that is Christ.

Also, classical music was not always composed during a quiet time. It was composed during a time when many people were slaves to tyrants, composed during times of war, and occasionally, composed during times of quiet reflection, but not always. And when played with a full orchestra? It was not quiet, it could not be quiet. You cram 50-100 instruments into an ensemble and the very earth will shake. Played the way the original original composer intended a full orchestra is loud enough to cause permanent hearing damage.

In measuring average and peak ambient noise levels, it was determined that the musicians were exposed to over 87 dBA – the EU Exposure Limit Value, or the maximum allowable noise level in the ear with all hearing protection in place! Strings averaged 90 dBA during a performance. The brass section averaged 95 dBA in the center, and 131 dBC in peak exposures. In the percussion section, musicians averaged exposures over 90 dBA, with upwards of 130 dBC.

Just geting into that a bit further, a scholarly article here shows a peak of 143 decibels. That's within immediate hearing damage territory. It's within striking distance of a rifle going off. And the median? 90 decibels is like a lawn mower.

I do not see how any music that praises God can also be talking about rebellion, unless it's talking about being forgiven for rebellion (as all sin is rebellion). Unless it's secretly about rebellion while not lyrically demonstrating that, but if so that's awfully convoluted.

 

[RedTent]

You used the word never.

My parents always used to say they stopped listening to me whenever they heard the words "always" or "never." I'm not bolding this for you, but I did a lot of reading here to find it so I'm bolding it for people who skip posts (I know you don't).

A full symphony is as loud in dB as a machine gun at peak, and as loud as a lawn mower on average.

Classical music was secular in it's day too! It still is, many of the songs handed down through the generations aren't any more about God than our secular music is today. Sure, they might not have used any "naughty words" but some of it is very ungodly, and some of the artists were themselves, very godless.

Who do you think paid the musicians to write music and perform it for them at a time when people had very little disposable income? The rich upper classes who engaged in godless life styles. Were there some very Godly gems among these songs, yes, absolutely. But you're making a broad and sweeping generalization about another form of music while holding another one up on a pedestal.

And there were people who argued that the piano was a terrible idea and harpsichord was the way things should be done because that is the way things were always done - I kid you not. Things change, languages change, music changes. The only constant in all of that is Christ.

Also, classical music was not always composed during a quiet time. It was composed during a time when many people were slaves to tyrants, composed during times of war, and occasionally, composed during times of quiet reflection, but not always. And when played with a full orchestra? It was not quiet, it could not be quiet. You cram 50-100 instruments into an ensemble and the very earth will shake. Played the way the original original composer intended a full orchestra is loud enough to cause permanent hearing damage.



Just geting into that a bit further, a scholarly article here shows a peak of 143 decibels. That's within immediate hearing damage territory. It's within striking distance of a rifle going off. And the median? 90 decibels is like a lawn mower.

I do not see how any music that praises God can also be talking about rebellion, unless it's talking about being forgiven for rebellion (as all sin is rebellion). Unless it's secretly about rebellion while not lyrically demonstrating that, but if so that's awfully convoluted.

Like tintin and my grandson, you make good points. And I like your parents teaching about the word never. But I stand by my statement that rock and quiet reverent prayer simply does not go together.

I guess I didn't make it clear about music reflecting the culture of the times. I wasn't thinking of music as secular or spiritual, but talking of its style. Classical music composed in the late 1800's and that composed in the 1600's is very different. Rimsky-Korsakov, late 1800's, would have been kicked out of town in the 1600's. The music reflected how people lived in those times.

I also don't think that how loud or soft a composition is meant to be played affects what we are talking about. Wagner, Hitler's favorite, can shake the rafters.

What I am saying is that rock reflects a rebellious style of living. That is NOT saying that everyone who likes rock is doing this as a sign of rebellion. Look at my grandson and tintin! Wonderful people! I am saying it wouldn't have become popular if there weren't so many rebels at the time it became popular. I am saying it reflects rebellion.

 

[ServantStrike]

Like tintin and my grandson, you make good points. And I like your parents teaching about the word never. But I stand by my statement that rock and quiet reverent prayer simply does not go together.

I guess I didn't make it clear about music reflecting the culture of the times. I wasn't thinking of music as secular or spiritual, but talking of its style. Classical music composed in the late 1800's and that composed in the 1600's is very different. Rimsky-Korsakov, late 1800's, would have been kicked out of town in the 1600's. The music reflected how people lived in those times.

I also don't think that how loud or soft a composition is meant to be played affects what we are talking about. Wagner, Hitler's favorite, can shake the rafters.

What I am saying is that rock reflects a rebellious style of living. That is NOT saying that everyone who likes rock is doing this as a sign of rebellion. Look at my grandson and tintin! Wonderful people! I am saying it wouldn't have become popular if there weren't so many rebels at the time it became popular. I am saying it reflects rebellion.

I tend to like utter silence for reverent prayer myself. Any music is a distraction then. I can see where some music might enhance the experience for some. It can for me too I suppose, it all depends. But usually I find myself gravitating towards the music. Anything with vocals and I want to sing it if it's good enough (I don't though, my singing is 50/50). The funny thing is I can't even do rock or metal style singing for more than maybe one song worth. My style would probably be closer to... lounge lol.

I have actually found myself jumping up and down and flaiing my arms when the right song comes along that is the combination of metal and praise, but I am also a strange man.

I use harder material in day to day life to get through the day. Music drives me more than a cup of coffee ever could. I have to be careful about what I listen to though, as the wrong message can really skew my perceptions. The wrong message and it just isn't fit for consumption at any time, but the right message and I do not see it as harmful in the proper setting. For everything there is a season as the psalmist says.