Struffling with a future husband and christianity

[JohnnyDH]

I have some questions about Christianity and what I'm currently struggling with. I am a gay male in a relationship with another gay man. I take care of this man as a friend and [with his disease he would have no one else], and yet I feel that somehow I will be shunned by other Christians simple because of the homosexuality. I believe that only God can see into our heart, and that he is merciful and living and will look upon me with without malice but mercy

 

[Ugly]

If you have good intentions while doing what God declares wrong, He doesn't see your good intentions. He sees your disobedience. The bible says our good works are as filthy rags. Just the same if you were straight and living with a girlfriend, both of that, and your situation, are wrong.
This isn't a shunning, but rather an honest assessment of your situation.

 

[Fenner]

I have some questions about Christianity and what I'm currently struggling with. I am a gay male in a relationship with another gay man. I take care of this man as a friend and [with his disease he would have no one else], and yet I feel that somehow I will be shunned by other Christians simple because of the homosexuality. I believe that only God can see into our heart, and that he is merciful and living and will look upon me with without malice but mercy

I recommend you go to a Episcopalian (I hope I spelled that right) or a Presbyterian USA Church. You will find fellowship and guidance at these churches. Please talk to a pastor of the Presbyterian church or a Minister and Episcopalian church. These churches ordain and accept homosexuals. God Bless You.

 

[tripsin]

I recommend you go to a Episcopalian (I hope I spelled that right) or a Presbyterian USA Church. You will find fellowship and guidance at these churches. Please talk to a pastor of the Presbyterian church or a Minister and Episcopalian church. These churches ordain and accept homosexuals. God Bless You.

"Churches" that ordain and condone homosexuality are preaching 'another gospel'. They are disobedient and rebellious to God's word.

 

[notuptome]

The struggle here is the classic struggle against God's declaration against sodomy. It is not a matter of finding acceptance among men but reconciliation to God. Romans 1 starting at vs 18 deals very directly with this matter.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I recommend you go to a Episcopalian (I hope I spelled that right) or a Presbyterian USA Church. You will find fellowship and guidance at these churches. Please talk to a pastor of the Presbyterian church or a Minister and Episcopalian church. These churches ordain and accept homosexuals. God Bless You.

Why do you hate this man? Sending him to teachers that will itch his ears will not get him reconciled to God. The Lord warns that entering into hell whole is no good. A lame man who enters heaven if far better off.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Fenner]

I don't hate him. I know you don't either. God Bless

 

[Maitreya]

I have some questions about Christianity and what I'm currently struggling with. I am a gay male in a relationship with another gay man. I take care of this man as a friend and [with his disease he would have no one else], and yet I feel that somehow I will be shunned by other Christians simple because of the homosexuality. I believe that only God can see into our heart, and that he is merciful and living and will look upon me with without malice but mercy




'What you do not do for the least of these, you do not do for me', said Jesus.

You are living in an age where homosexuality is sending ripples through the church. Its opposition is fierce because, I believe, patriarchal society does not understand it, but yet it is no more 'missing the mark' than is any biblical sin. I promise you one thing; that Jesus understands and has compassion for the trials and suffering of the human condition in more abundance than many people will take notice of in this lifetime, particularly in our era.

The heart, the actions of people, they tell many things about themselves. And to the measure they treat others, so they will be shown up for the purposes of their hearts. Error in others can be very easy to see, but an error in ourselves, we often hide like a sly card from the dealer.

I am no better than you. And you are no better than I. A better form of human is a very human delusion to have. Instead I suggest that you and I are both imperfect, wrought with our own flaws and these flaws are what make us equally human; a state of being that Jesus completely understands.

Some struggle with lust, others with anger, and others still with judgement of others, and you my friend, struggle with homosexuality. There is a truth in my philosophy, a truth that I wholly believe. That anything that causes me suffering, I should work to understand.

Desire most definitely is a thing which causes suffering. Your desire to be accepted by christians, and your desire to be with your partner, these two things cause you pain. I suggest that you let go of your desire, in order to ease your own suffering, and then learn to see the world through compassionate and giving eyes, in order to ease others'.

Hatred shall never cease by hatred, but by love.

 

[mystdancer50]

Seems to me that many are pushing the "grace is sufficient so keep on sinning" doctrine here. Paul specifically stated that we SHOULDN'T continue sinning so that grace can abound. Why is it that we think we can remain in our sins, knowing it's sin, and still be a follower of Christ? How many times did He say "go and sin no more"?

The word of God says that if someone knows the right thing to do and does not do it, they are sinning. This is in regards to the OP and the ones telling him to remain in his sin. We are not called to pacify the heart and soothe the soul, we are called to remove the leaven from our lives completely.

 

[presidente]

I have some questions about Christianity and what I'm currently struggling with. I am a gay male in a relationship with another gay man. I take care of this man as a friend and [with his disease he would have no one else], and yet I feel that somehow I will be shunned by other Christians simple because of the homosexuality. I believe that only God can see into our heart, and that he is merciful and living and will look upon me with without malice but mercy

There are a lot of churches that teach that homosexual behavior is a sin who will treat people homosexuals with mercy. One thing to keep in mind is that the Bible forbids the sex act. And when a lot of Christians and other people older than generation X or Y say 'homosexual' that mean people who have sex with their own gender. People in the gay rights movement and probably most of generation Y people in the US tend to think of 'homosexual' or 'gay' as an 'orientation'-- an inclination people are born with. So when people in church say homosexuals are sinners, they often mean people who perform homosexual acts.

The Bible says that God is calling all men to repent. Homosexual behavior is shown to be sinful both in the New and Old Testaments. Fornication (sleeping together before marriage) and adultery are also sinful. The thing, fornicators' identity is not usually wrapped up in being a fornicator. They don't think they were born fornicators and will always be fornicators. Homosexuality is different in this culture because so many people have their entire identity wrapped up in being a homosexual, and the government and society has bought into the idea, labeling people according to 'sexual orientation' and granting minority protection status based on people's sexual preferences.

If you are living with this man as a caretaker and not engaging in homosexual activity or a homosexual affair, I wouldn't say that's a sin. Taking care of a sick person is not a sin. You can find forgiveness just like anyone else who repents and comes to Christ, believing that He died for your sins and rose against from the dead. When you repent, you are to reckon ourselves to be dead to sin and alive to God. The old man is crucified with Christ. That means you should no longer consider your identity to be homosexual or gay, or whatever. Not a 'gay Christian' or 'homosexual Christian.' Christians who used to fornicate do not refer to themselves as 'fornicator Christians.' You will be a new man in Christ Jesus. Also, when you talk to Christians, you should keep this in mind when talking to them.

I'll pray for you to find a good church. Don't go to a church that doesn't follow God's moral standards in order to be accepted. Acceptance from other people is only worth so much. You need the Lord's acceptance.

 

[Maitreya]

Seems to me that many are pushing the "grace is sufficient so keep on sinning" doctrine here. Paul specifically stated that we SHOULDN'T continue sinning so that grace can abound. Why is it that we think we can remain in our sins, knowing it's sin, and still be a follower of Christ? How many times did He say "go and sin no more"?

The word of God says that if someone knows the right thing to do and does not do it, they are sinning. This is in regards to the OP and the ones telling him to remain in his sin. We are not called to pacify the heart and soothe the soul, we are called to remove the leaven from our lives completely.

If I am an intoxicated drug addict, i know drugs are wrong, the results of my intoxicated behaviour cause myself and others suffering. Yet, is my intoxicated mind in the frame to stop drugs immediately?

I cannot stop what causes me suffering if I do not understand myself. The same way, I do not stop a practice by berating myself and feeling unduly guilty that I am human and make mistakes. To stop my suffering, I have to acquire the mindset that allows me to.

The practice of compassion precedes an action of compassion. And the giving of compassion can ease the mind of a person enough that they make their decisions for compassionate reasons.

Both you and I know fully well that all of us commit sins that we have trouble foregoing.

There is an argument that homosexuality is not a disposition and that people are not born with it. And that argument has both fors and againsts. But I know for certain that no child is born homophobic.

 

[Maitreya]

Paul also said, in continuation from his instruction that we should not sit in sin, that 'yet I continue to partake in that which I know I should not'.

We are not expected to be super-human. Only to work towards what we know is right. If a homosexual cannot be a 'follower of Christ', then neither can any man; for we all do things we know to be wrong at some point or other.

Working towards right is what counts. The man may be homosexual, but he also cares for a sickly man.

 

[Bryancampbell]

If I am an intoxicated drug addict, i know drugs are wrong, the results of my intoxicated behaviour cause myself and others suffering. Yet, is my intoxicated mind in the frame to stop drugs immediately?

I cannot stop what causes me suffering if I do not understand myself. The same way, I do not stop a practice by berating myself and feeling unduly guilty that I am human and make mistakes. To stop my suffering, I have to acquire the mindset that allows me to.

The practice of compassion precedes an action of compassion. And the giving of compassion can ease the mind of a person enough that they make their decisions for compassionate reasons.

Both you and I know fully well that all of us commit sins that we have trouble foregoing.

There is an argument that homosexuality is not a disposition and that people are not born with it. And that argument has both fors and againsts. But I know for certain that no child is born homophobic.

This is why we preach the gospel as well. Bible says we cannot do good on our own, even if we tried. Matter of fact it states that if we try keeping the law, we will crash harder than before. When you start to believe and follow Jesus, His Spirit guides you and leads you to stop, convicting you and helping you not desire to do sinful things. If you don't have that, then are you sure the Spirit of God is in you? Very important issue. Jesus didn't just come for the forgiveness of sin, but also to take away your sin. Because of Jesus, you don't have to live trapped in a sinful lifestyle. Because of Jesus, you have the freedom to break free from sin. The power comes through trusting in Him. So when someone tells someone that sin is sin, and how to break free, then they do know but reject it's power. It's the grace of God that helps us.

 

[Maitreya]

This is why we preach the gospel as well. Bible says we cannot do good on our own, even if we tried. Matter of fact it states that if we try keeping the law, we will crash harder than before. When you start to believe and follow Jesus, His Spirit guides you and leads you to stop, convicting you and helping you not desire to do sinful things. If you don't have that, then are you sure the Spirit of God is in you? Very important issue. Jesus didn't just come for the forgiveness of sin, but also to take away your sin. Because of Jesus, you don't have to live trapped in a sinful lifestyle. Because of Jesus, you have the freedom to break free from sin. The power comes through trusting in Him. So when someone tells someone that sin is sin, and how to break free, then they do know but reject it's power. It's the grace of God that helps us.

This throws up come contradictions.

If 'it is the grace of God that helps us', then why isn't the simple grace of God sufficient for the man above?

Similarly, if I am showing this man compassion and understanding, nomatter how much he is deemed by others to be one of the 'least' of men, then aren't I doing exactly what Jesus did all those years ago with the 'undesireables' that he associated with?

Isn't that what we are to do, humanity I mean? Be as Jesus was to others? A helper, a friend, a compassionate soul.

Jesus' spirit lives in me. The spirit of compassion. It can live in all of us. And it is there to be shared.

 

[Bryancampbell]

This throws up come contradictions.

If 'it is the grace of God that helps us', then why isn't the simple grace of God sufficient for the man above?

Similarly, if I am showing this man compassion and understanding, nomatter how much he is deemed by others to be one of the 'least' of men, then aren't I doing exactly what Jesus did all those years ago with the 'undesireables' that he associated with?

Isn't that what we are to do, humanity I mean? Be as Jesus was to others? A helper, a friend, a compassionate soul.

Jesus' spirit lives in me. The spirit of compassion. It can live in all of us. And it is there to be shared.

The grace of God is abounding in love. The love of God is the grace of God. Is so sufficient, that it's everything a Christian has and everything a sinner needs. To say 'God is still working on me' while constantly sinning without any want to change is a contradiction. Don't get me wrong, love your neighbor as yourself, but don't condone another's sin.

 

[mystdancer50]

Don't get me wrong, love your neighbor as yourself, but don't condone another's sin.

That is the exact point. I completely agree. We live in a time when we are wishy washy about sin. We must remember this exact same sin that we have 'compassion' on is the sin that Jesus died horribly on a cross to save us from. In this whole "love, love, love" world that people are trying to embrace, we will hug each other right into hell.

Jesus wouldn't have said, "Go and sin no more" if that wasn't possible. Yes, I realize we are human. Yes, I realize we are not perfect. Yes, we will sin still as we run this race. The issue is, though, if we are WILLFULLY excusing blatant sin in our lives, considering it okay under the 'compassion doctrine'. Where do we draw the line, ultimately? If homosexuality is okay because of the goodness of the person's heart/intentions, then so is fornication and idolatry and all the other sins. If this was the case, that you can be a fornicator with a good heart/intentions and still make heaven your home, then what is the point of Jesus dying on the cross to set the captives free?

Galatians 5:13-26, NIV: You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love. For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” If you bite and devour each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

 

[Maitreya]

The grace of God is abounding in love. The love of God is the grace of God. Is so sufficient, that it's everything a Christian has and everything a sinner needs. To say 'God is still working on me' while constantly sinning without any want to change is a contradiction. Don't get me wrong, love your neighbor as yourself, but don't condone another's sin.

Who's condoning? He knows it's bad, I know it's hurting him. I'm not condoning anything. At the same time, I don't need to treat him like a leper or as any less than I myself am.

Whether or not you believe God's metaphysical hand touches you or whether you believe that you 'learn' to be as Jesus is, is up to you. The fact of the matter is, it's not simply a case of stopping something straight away, without any time. And ordering him just makes him feel even more inadequate, ill-equipped and wrong.

There's a difference, a HUGE difference, between condoning and having understanding.

I wonder if I was ever as perfect and good at 'going on and sinning no more' as you guys seem to be. I don't think I was.

 

[DragonSlayer]

Sodomite moral relativism has no place in Heaven !

 

[mystdancer50]

Here is the question: in Heaven, will God say, "I understand your struggle, come on in." or is He going to say either "Depart from Me, you workers of iniquity, I never knew you" or "Well done, thy good and faithful servant"?

All of us were bound in one sin or another, where it felt like there was no escape. Most of us were bound in some kind of sexual perversion, whether some will admit it or not. But guess what? Jesus came to SET US FREE, not to understand our struggle and pat us on the heads.

The more understanding we offer, the more carnal we are. Understanding and patience can be offered to those out there that genuinely have no idea that what they're doing is wrong. However the minute you know what you're doing is wrong, sinful and against God, the time for coddling is done. You can have love, yes, but it's not the pat on the head, I'm here for you, keep on sinning, it'll be okay, kind of love. The love we are called to have is to help our brothers and sisters finish the race and make heaven their home and unrepentant sin is not something God can forgive. Why? Because it's UNREPENTANT...meaning no forgiveness is sought.

Repent means to TURN AWAY from the sin. You can feel guilt until the day you die, but until you act on that and repent, it does you no good. The church coddles people today and makes them think their lives are good as they are. Those that encourage people to continue in their lifestyles that lead to eternal separation from God, while giving them a watered-down, weak version of the gospel, will have to answer for their actions.

 

[Maitreya]

Sodomite moral relativism has no place in Heaven !

Perhaps not, but it does have a place on an imperfect Earth.

Believing that there's an absolute truth that you can apply to every context successfully to achieve a desired result (turning this sodomite from his awful ways, in this instance, I presume), is a flawed idea. If it weren't we'd have pastors and preachers around the world saying the magic words and lo and behold there'd be no gay people.

If God hates relativism so much, then why has he proposed many different covenants with many different generations of worshiper throughout the history of Judaism and Christianity?

The bottom line is, if you want this man to not be gay, you're gonna have to do a lot better than stating a short sentence with no motive behind it other than to shout your point across the room.

The guy's in pain, if you don't feel that, then I worry about what religion is becoming.

How do you propose to help anyone for the right reasons when you put yourselves so firmly against them? What you give them is an ultimatum; succumb to my will or God hates you and you're going to hell. That is not a lending hand.

We all sin. And much of the reason is a simple truth; we don't know real compassion, for ourselves or others.