I just found this on a rapture site

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Oct 14, 2013
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Satan is in heaven now accusing the brethren day and night. Michael is restraining him until he returns as Antichrist.

Your statement does nothing to counter my argument. It is absolutely true that God would have accepted Cain had Cain chosen to do what delighted the Lord rather than doing what did not delight the Lord.

Nobody on here has disputed that fallen angels slept with human women and procreated with them. Since that is an indisputable fact, why are so many people having problems accepting that Satan took the lead? Obviously Satan is capable of reproduction or he wouldn't have a seed for God to put an enmity between his seed and Eve's seed.

watttt you said the devil is in heaven watttttttttttttttttttttt where in the bible says that ?
 
Oct 14, 2013
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You are forgetting the enmity that God placed between Eve's seed and Satan's seed. This separation could have allowed for her to get pregnant with Adam while already pregnant with Satan. Let's face it, this is a little above the norm and what we understand may not have applied to Eve.


This is theory and conjecture as the Bible does not say this. See what I mean??? We all make assumptions about things that aren't clearly taught. If Cain was the son of Adam and God wanted to show us that Cain was cut off, he could have shown the two lineages with Adam at the top in both cases, but He didn't. God showed us two distinct and separate lineages for a reason.

One reason is to show that Jesus did not come from Cain's line and we see that it was from Seth's line that Noah came. But this reason does not account for why we have Cain's line at all. Why not just leave it out? There is a lesson there.

As for Moses, he was writing about a period 2,000+ years before him so clearly Moses wrote down exactly what the Lord told him to write. He was not writing from memory and likely not from stories handed down. So the garden wasn't written in a writing style of Moses.

1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them,

2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose.

Ask yourself what this means.

The sons of God are angels otherwise they would be called sons of men and not sons of God just as the women are called daughters of men. If angels are fooling around with human women you can bet they learned it from their master.

you are one sided the stigy devil who is the chief of all the fallen angels should made cain a big giant because fallen angels cause giants
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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So you don't believe Satan is rejected by God?
Of course Satan is already condemned to the Lake of Fire. That is clear. But Satan isn't there yet. He was in heaven when God and Satan discussed Job, was he not??? Rev 12 tells us where Satan is:

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,

8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.

9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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I believe the Garden was destroyed in the flood. The land mass was dramatically changed. If you read the descriptions of the different rivers in the garden, 2 I think don't exist today.

As for the Tree of Life not being in the future heaven, go back and look again. Rev 22 is all the eternal state, new heaven on earth. Remember, the old heaven and earth will pass away, 2 Peter 3:10.

all this is on earth how many heaven are there ?
 
Oct 14, 2013
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Of course Satan is already condemned to the Lake of Fire. That is clear. But Satan isn't there yet. He was in heaven when God and Satan discussed Job, was he not??? Rev 12 tells us where Satan is:

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,

8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.

9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


satan was cast out dont you get it the heven were clensed

lets asy you live Nyc and you went out roaming the city and your mom ask you wher were you what will you say
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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you are one sided the stigy devil who is the chief of all the fallen angels should made cain a big giant because fallen angels cause giants
We don't know if Cain was a giant or not, the Bible doesn't discuss his size.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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We don't know if Cain was a giant or not, the Bible doesn't discuss his size.

the bible does not say because satan having sex with eve is your story and nonesense
Why will the bible say that the fallen angels had sex with the women and giants became

was the devil among this bunch in genesis 6 ?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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satan was cast out dont you get it the heven were clensed

lets asy you live Nyc and you went out roaming the city and your mom ask you wher were you what will you say
I think you better go re-read Revelation 12 to get the full context. Satan is in heaven right now as we speak accusing the brethren day and night.

5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,

8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.

9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb
OBVIOUSLY THIS IS AFTER THE CRUCIFIXION and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."
5th and 6th trumpets are Satan's wrath. This is clear from the context and is specifically taught.

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.
ISRAEL

14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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the bible does not say because satan having sex with eve is your story and nonesense
Why will the bible say that the fallen angels had sex with the women and giants became

was the devil among this bunch in genesis 6 ?
Ask God. Or I can let Him know you are unhappy with the lack of detail if you want.:)

Seriously, God can't even look on sin. So maybe He sugar coated this story for us. IDK. Does it really matter 6,000 years later? It's a fun debate so don't get your knickers in an uproar.
 
Oct 14, 2013
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I think you better go re-read Revelation 12 to get the full context. Satan is in heaven right now as we speak accusing the brethren day and night.

5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,

8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.

9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb
OBVIOUSLY THIS IS AFTER THE CRUCIFIXION and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."
5th and 6th trumpets are Satan's wrath. This is clear from the context and is specifically taught.

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.
ISRAEL

14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.

When was Jesus born ?

Was this futer John was shown or past ?
 
Oct 14, 2013
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I think you better go re-read Revelation 12 to get the full context. Satan is in heaven right now as we speak accusing the brethren day and night.

5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.

6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought,

8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.

9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb
OBVIOUSLY THIS IS AFTER THE CRUCIFIXION and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."
5th and 6th trumpets are Satan's wrath. This is clear from the context and is specifically taught.

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child.
ISRAEL

14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.

15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood.

the man child is Jesus not Israel ?

Who is the woman that give birth ?
 
Oct 14, 2013
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Ask God. Or I can let Him know you are unhappy with the lack of detail if you want.:)

Seriously, God can't even look on sin. So maybe He sugar coated this story for us. IDK. Does it really matter 6,000 years later? It's a fun debate so don't get your knickers in an uproar.

glad you said that but ironically you are saying God allowed the devil access to the heaven still hmmm and we know that the devil is SIN

PSALMS 94
20 Shall the throne of iniquity have fellowship with thee, which frameth mischief by a law?
 
U

Ugly

Guest
3. Cain and Abel were twins thus the need for enmity or separation. This part will be really hard for some to accept but read it closely:

1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have acquired a man from the Lord."
2 Then she bore again, this time his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.


Notice Adam "knew his wife ONCE, not twice!!!" Adam "knew" his wife and bore Cain then bore Abel. It doesn't say any time lapsed, nor does it say Adam "knew" his wife a second time. Eve did not know Cain was Satan's son as evidenced that she thought Cain was from the Lord.
Twins are carried to term together. You can't have sex with two men, and get pregnant twiceat the same time. So what you're saying is Eve became pregnant twice, by two sources, at one time.
So Eve was able to have sex with satan, and Adam. But didn't know she was carrying a child from each at the same time? This one horribly flawed idea is enough to disprove this false theology. There's a reason this isn't taught. Because it's wrong.
 

shrimp

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2011
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Nicely said and I agree to disagree. Nice debate. You are a honorable Christian.
Thank you for the debate. That was my first healthy one. It was a real honor, thank you again. :)
 
C

Charismatic-sts1

Guest
Sounds like it doesn't it.
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Twins are carried to term together. You can't have sex with two men, and get pregnant twiceat the same time. So what you're saying is Eve became pregnant twice, by two sources, at one time.
So Eve was able to have sex with satan, and Adam. But didn't know she was carrying a child from each at the same time? This one horribly flawed idea is enough to disprove this false theology. There's a reason this isn't taught. Because it's wrong.
Obviously you forgot that after the act with Satan, God put an enmity between Satan's seed and Eve's seed thus separating them and allowing her to get pregnant again. This is the only known time in history that this was done. You are picking one of the 11 or so reasons I cited back in post 99 to attack. Why not attack them all? Clearly God did something to Eve's seed after her encounter with Satan. What exactly it was medically, I have no clue. But why do anything at all with Eve's seed if all she did was eat an apple?
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Thank you for the debate. That was my first healthy one. It was a real honor, thank you again. :)
Yes, I enjoyed our discussion. You are a honorable person. Thank you for being civil even in disagreement. I wish I could say that about some others on here...
 

PlainWord

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
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Who is the man child and when was he born ?
Christ, and he was conceived on or about Dec 25, 3 BC meaning he was born 9 months later sometime in September, 2 BC. He died on April 3, 33 AD. He was 35 when he died and rose again.