Begotten

[TaylorTG]

The human brain is not designed to understand concepts like "before the beginning of time", which is why our mathematics breaks down in any attempt to describe the beginning of the universe (big bang theory or otherwise).

To add to this: Since God created time, space, and physics, he would be outside of the influence of time, space, and physics. God doesn't have to follow his own rules.

Time--> Hence why God is eternal, since he is not affected by time, he will never age or decay.
space--> God is aware of everything that is going on everywhere.
God can't be directly proven through science, for God created the sciences; he is outside of science's influence.

Jesus is the physical image of the invisible God. This God has always existed, and therefore, Jesus himself has always existed.
Correct?

 

[Gjolll]

You're "rhetorical question", which is not rhetorical in scripture, suggests that you should read the Bible before trying to teach us here on CC.

Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (NKJV)

The KJV is more accurate "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." It follows the Greek word order.


Begotten occured at Jesus' birth. That was when the Word became a Son.

There is no reference to "God the Son" in the entire bible.

 

[OneJack]

Jesus is the physical image of the invisible God. This God has always existed, and therefore, Jesus himself has always existed.
Correct?

Point of clarification if you may, is the Eternal Father or the Mighty God the physical image of the invisible God?

 

[TaylorTG]

Point of clarification if you may, is the Eternal Father or the Mighty God the physical image of the invisible God?

Jesus Christ is physical image of the invisible God, yes? Through scripture, Jesus said that he has come from his father in Heaven.
"No one goes to the father except through me" <-- Stuff like this!
On a side note: Verses such as these prove the existence of the divine Trinity. God is made up of 3 parts.

 

[zone]

Thanks to Danschance for sharing & using Scripture. In John the Scripture states the incarnation like this;

"And the Word was made flesh"

wow...serious?

i never read that part

...

now about those 23 posts - i got nuthin'
so maybe we can engage on what you've already posted.
you will follow up won't you?

k....thanks ever so much.

 

[OneJack]

Jesus Christ is physical image of the invisible God, yes? Through scripture, Jesus said that he has come from his father in Heaven.
"No one goes to the father except through me" <-- Stuff like this!
On a side note: Verses such as these prove the existence of the divine Trinity. God is made up of 3 parts.

I am referring to Isa. 9:6 and Matt. 1:21 and 23 where we can clearly see that Jesus, the Eternal Father, the Mighty God, Immanuel, etc. are names that God decreed to be called to the son/man brought forth by a virgin thus my question to you. Do you believe Jesus = the Mighty God = the Eternal Father = the Emmanuel = ...........................?

 

[danschance]

It was a rhetorical question. Is Jesus God, well, is He our Saviour? Plays Jeopardy music.

Pink, the above reply seems to be more of a conundrum than rhetoric. Pink, Please answer this simple question. Do you believe Jesus is God or not? It seems as if you are obfuscating by not ans
answering this question and by not answering it, it seems to imply you do not believe Jesus is God. I assume that is the reason why you are focusing in on Him being begotten. Yes Jesus was Begotten but he clearly existed long before that. In fact Jesus has no beginning.

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Hebrews 13:8

 

[Gjolll]

God is made up of 3 parts.

Too physical,too anthropomorphic, and in violation of Deut 6;4 "The LORD our God, the LORD is one"

 

[Praus]

The KJV is more accurate "the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ." It follows the Greek word order.

Your Greek translation skills are quite poor, the Granville Sharp Rule applies to Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1. It wasn't published until 1798 otherwise it's extremely likely that the KJV translators would have used it.

-> Granville Sharp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"When the copulative kai connects two nouns of the same case, if the article ho, or any of its cases, precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the latter always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle ..."

Begotten occured at Jesus' birth. That was when the Word became a Son.

Is that the definition of begotten?

There is no reference to "God the Son" in the entire bible.

Ok.

 

[LovePink]

Ok Zone, I don't see a problem with my approach. Your first response to me was is Jesus God- So, I responded is Jesus our Saviour. If you would have simply responded yes, I would have said yes He is God, because only God can save and God is One.

I am trying to go through all the lovely comments, haha. Teach, not my bag, but cool if someone is learning or even being edified. I am trying to converse & fellowship with Christians.

 

[zone]

Ok Zone, I don't see a problem with my approach. Your first response to me was is Jesus God- So, I responded is Jesus our Saviour. If you would have simply responded yes, I would have said yes He is God, because only God can save and God is One.

I am trying to go through all the lovely comments, haha. Teach, not my bag, but cool if someone is learning or even being edified. I am trying to converse & fellowship with Christians.

cool
i considered all your correspondence.
and have asked for some clarification so we might converse.
refer to your threads.
i have many questions also.
thanks

 

[TaylorTG]

@OneJack

I am referring to Isa. 9:6 and Matt. 1:21 and 23 where we can clearly see that Jesus, the Eternal Father, the Mighty God, Immanuel, etc. are names that God decreed to be called to the son/man brought forth by a virgin thus my question to you. Do you believe Jesus = the Mighty God = the Eternal Father = the Emmanuel = ..........?

One creature may have many titles, young panda.

Too physical,too anthropomorphic, and in violation of Deut 6;4 "The LORD our God, the LORD is one"

Hmm... (Looks up Deuteronomy 6:4)
Yes, there is only one God. I agree. This one God has three parts, correct? The holy spirit appeared to the apostles in tongues of fire, and Jesus occasionally gave credit to his father in Heaven.

I'm not saying that these three parts are different Gods. If you believe that is what I'm thinking, then we have a communication break-down.

 

[Praus]

To add to this: Since God created time, space, and physics, he would be outside of the influence of time, space, and physics. God doesn't have to follow his own rules.

Time--> Hence why God is eternal, since he is not affected by time, he will never age or decay.
space--> God is aware of everything that is going on everywhere.
God can't be directly proven through science, for God created the sciences; he is outside of science's influence.

Jesus is the physical image of the invisible God. This God has always existed, and therefore, Jesus himself has always existed.

Phil 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Correct?

That's very insightful! Yes, it's all created, time is a creation, space is a creation, energy (light) is a creation, matter is a creation.


For a quick word study, the Greek word is kosmos means the world but also the entire physical universe depending on context.

1 John 2:15 Love not the world (kosmos), neither the things [that are] in the world (kosmos). If any man love the world (kosmos), the love of the Father is not in him.

 

[LovePink]

Ever do a word study on glory, terms like Father of Glory, Lord of Glory, King of Glory, throne of His Glory.


They beheld His glory, the glory as the only begotten of the Father. This speaks of the resurrection. The Father raised the Son from the dead, begotten, not made, "First begotten of the dead"

 

[Gjolll]

Your Greek translation skills are quite poor, the Granville Sharp Rule applies to Titus 2:13 and 2 Peter 1:1. It wasn't published until 1798 otherwise it's extremely likely that the KJV translators would have used it.

-> Granville Sharp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"When the copulative kai connects two nouns of the same case, if the article ho, or any of its cases, precedes the first of the said nouns or participles, and is not repeated before the second noun or participle, the latter always relates to the same person that is expressed or described by the first noun or participle ..."

A rule that he invented himself just to be able to mis-translate the Greek to make Christ out to be God!

Of course, the manifestation of the risen Christ will involve a manifestation of "God" because of his divine status and because he is the image of God with the embodyment of God's power.

Yet it is trite knowledge that Paul only ever associates the word God with the Father.

Is that the definition of begotten?

Absolutely. The word "begotten" is always associated with "son" and "son" is associated with him who was sent Luk 20:13 so by definition, "begotten" infers the sending of the son, which infers the birth of Christ.

 

[zone]

A rule that he invented himself just to be able to mis-translate the Greek to make Christ out to be God!

Of course, the manifestation of the risen Christ will involve a manifestation of "God" because of his divine status and because he is the image of God with the embodyment of God's power.

*cough*....

 

[LovePink]

Anothing interesting thing about the word begotten, Paul says;

14*I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of* me

 

[Praus]

A rule that he invented himself just to be able to mis-translate the Greek to make Christ out to be God!

Of course, the manifestation of the risen Christ will involve a manifestation of "God" because of his divine status and because he is the image of God with the embodyment of God's power.

So how is "divine status" different than being God?

Every major Christian Bible translation today uses the Granville Sharp Rule, so I would assume it's pretty solid.

Yet it is trite knowledge that Paul only ever associates the word God with the Father.

I don't know why you think your going to get away with assertions like that.

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Absolutely. The word "begotten" is always associated with "son" and "son" is associated with him who was sent Luk 20:13 so by definition, "begotten" infers the sending of the son, which infers the birth of Christ.

Luke 20:13 says the son already existed, no further birth was needed

Luke 20:13 Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence [him] when they see him.

 

[danschance]

Anothing interesting thing about the word begotten, Paul says;

14*I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you. For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of* me

I find it interesting that one of your threads you claim Paul is not qualified to be an apostle and here you are quoting him.

 

[Gjolll]

So how is "divine status" different than being God?

Every major Christian Bible translation today uses the Granville Sharp Rule, so I would assume it's pretty solid.

Nearly all theologians and bible translators these days are heretics and represent heretical churches. I wouldn't trust any of them. Everyone knows that all translators translate to fit scripture with their own theology. Goes for all translators, even the KJV - to a point. See the use of "Messiah" in Daniel, where elsewhere the same word is translated as "anointed." See also its use of the word "church" for congregation.

I don't know why you think your going to get away with assertions like that.

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.




Luke 20:13 says the son already existed, no further birth was needed

Luke 20:13 Then said the lord of the vineyard, What shall I do? I will send my beloved son: it may be they will reverence [him] when they see him.

There are many people who just don't get it. They just can't accept the notion that "The Word was made flesh."

For them, the word simply took on an envelope of flesh, he never stopped being God, he never stopped having the mind of God, the soul of God, the power of God. This is paganism. God flitting between heaven and earth. No way. This is not what the bible says at all.

When John said "The word was God" he was referring to his status "in the beginning." Then the Word became flesh. Flesh is flesh.

If Jesus was God, why would he need the Holy Spirit? Makes no sense.