The Israel of God

SarahM777 · Dec 13, 2013

Jesus spoke of the Kingdom of Heaven multiple times. His language is KINGDOM language. They knew Jesus was SPEAKING of the kingdom it was one of the charges they made against Him with Pilate.

John 18

28 Then the Jewish leaders took Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness they did not enter the palace, because they wanted to be able to eat the Passover. 29 So Pilate came out to them and asked, “What charges are you bringing against this man?”
30 “If he were not a criminal,” they replied, “we would not have handed him over to you.”
31 Pilate said, “Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law.”
“But we have no right to execute anyone,” they objected. 32 This took place to fulfill what Jesus had said about the kind of death he was going to die.
33 Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”
34 “Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked, “or did others talk to you about me?”
35 “Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied. “Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”
36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders.But now my kingdom is from another place.”
37 “You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth.Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
38 “What is truth?” retorted Pilate. With this he went out again to the Jews gathered there and said, “I find no basis for a charge against him. 39 But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release ‘the king of the Jews’?”
40 They shouted back, “No, not him! Give us Barabbas!” Now Barabbas had taken part in an uprising.

19

19 Then Pilate took Jesus and had him flogged. 2 The soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head. They clothed him in a purple robe 3 and went up to him again and again, saying, “Hail, king of the Jews!” And they slapped him in the face.
4 Once more Pilate came out and said to the Jews gathered there, “Look, I am bringing him out to you to let you know that I find no basis for a charge against him.” 5 When Jesus came out wearing the crown of thorns and the purple robe, Pilate said to them, “Here is the man!”
6 As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, “Crucify! Crucify!”
But Pilate answered, “You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him.”
7 The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”
8 When Pilate heard this, he was even more afraid, 9 and he went back inside the palace. “Where do you come from?” he asked Jesus, but Jesus gave him no answer. 10 “Do you refuse to speak to me?” Pilate said. “Don’t you realize I have power either to free you or to crucify you?”
11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”
12 From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jewish leaders kept shouting, “If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar.”
13 When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge’s seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). 14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon.
“Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.
15 But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!”
“Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked.
“We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered.

SarahM777 · Dec 13, 2013

Luke 23

23 Then the whole assembly rose and led him off to Pilate. 2 And they began to accuse him, saying, “We have found this man subverting our nation. He opposes payment of taxes to Caesar and claims to be Messiah, a king.”

Mark 15

15 Very early in the morning, the chief priests, with the elders, the teachers of the law and the whole Sanhedrin, made their plans. So they bound Jesus, led him away and handed him over to Pilate.
2 “Are you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate.
“You have said so,” Jesus replied.
3 The chief priests accused him of many things. 4 So again Pilate asked him, “Aren’t you going to answer? See how many things they are accusing you of.”
5 But Jesus still made no reply, and Pilate was amazed.
6 Now it was the custom at the festival to release a prisoner whom the people requested. 7 A man called Barabbas was in prison with the insurrectionists who had committed murder in the uprising.8 The crowd came up and asked Pilate to do for them what he usually did.
9 “Do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate, 10 knowing it was out of self-interest that the chief priests had handed Jesus over to him. 11 But the chief priests stirred up the crowd to have Pilate release Barabbas instead.
12 “What shall I do, then, with the one you call the king of the Jews?” Pilate asked them.
13 “Crucify him!” they shouted.
14 “Why? What crime has he committed?” asked Pilate.
But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify him!”
15 Wanting to satisfy the crowd, Pilate released Barabbas to them. He had Jesus flogged, and handed him over to be crucified.

16 The soldiers led Jesus away into the palace (that is, the Praetorium) and called together the whole company of soldiers.17 They put a purple robe on him, then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on him. 18 And they began to call out to him, “Hail, king of the Jews!” 19 Again and again they struck him on the head with a staff and spit on him. Falling on their knees, they paid homage to him. 20 And when they had mocked him, they took off the purple robe and put his own clothes on him. Then they led him out to crucify him.

starfield · Dec 13, 2013

BradC said:

Your error is so profound you have no understanding of the gospel. So someone is going to rebuild David’s throne in Jerusalem in the future for Christ to sit upon? How ridiculous does that sound? I am not going to get deceived into dispensationalism again. I believe the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world is now reigning both as High Priest and King. You want to deny this? That's your loss.

BradC said:

Christ died, rose, and ascended into Heaven to sit on David's eternal throne. Peter preached this on the day of Pentecost. Read your bible!
Acts 2:29-36
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Psalms 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psalms 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

BradC said:

On the contrary...
Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Ephesians 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Revelation 1:5-6 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

But I guess you haven't been translated into Christ's kingdom nor are you reigning with Him since you deny this truth of God's word.

ChosenbyHim · Dec 13, 2013

zone said:

Zone, Daniel's 70th week is not something to joke about. Daniel's 70th week (time of Jacob's trouble) Will be one of the worst times on this Earth. The tribulation will be so great and severe in Daniel's 70th week that even the days will have to be shortened (Matt. 24:22) for the elect's sake, and so that some fresh can be saved.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 13, 2013

starfield said:

lol. A priest is different than a king

Saying he is not sitting on davids throne right now does not mean he is not preist. David was not a priest.

Are you going to deny what the OT says about the king?

Why is it you NEVER respond to the things I say, and just make these assumptions? If your going to debate with me on this subject. At least be humble enough to speak to my points.

Again, I ask you

When did he destroy the nations?
How is he ruling with a rod of Iron?
When did the nations start going to jerusalem to worship him year after year?

This is what the OT says about him. So if your going to tell me I am wrong. SHow me as I asked HOW HE IS DOING, OR WHEN HE DID THESE THINGS!

zone · Dec 14, 2013

peacefulbeliever said:

1)
a) the nation State in the Middle East has named itself Israel
b) Jacob was renamed Israel
c) the northern kingdom was named israel
d) the nation of hebrews was called israel
e) israel is used interchangeably and is synonymous with jews in the NT
f) Jesus Christ is called Israel
g) some israel of the flesh (apostates) were not counted as children of the promise
h) some israel of the flesh ("we believe that Jesus is the Christ") were counted as children of the promise
i) gentiles who believe(d) were grafted into the the One Fold, children of the promise

conclusion:

the Israel of God is Christ and all those who belong to Him.

2) "the children of Israel" refers

a) broadly to those brought up out of the land of egypt.
b) in the promise to abraham his descendents numbering as the stars of heaven and the sands of the sea refers first to the natural; then to the spiritual (those who would be the children of faith and heirs according to the promise, the promise being spoken to abraham and his SEED, meaning one person, who is Christ).

3)

Leviticus 16
And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.

Hebrews 9:11
But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.

Hebrews 10
9then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away the first in order to establish the second. 10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

4) should anyone be doing this today?

Leviticus 16
And this shall be an everlasting statute unto you, to make an atonement for the children of Israel for all their sins once a year. And he did as the LORD commanded Moses.

5) what is that? some meaningless term invented by people who have decided God has two people and two covenants and two plans.

there's nothing to replace.
the Israel of God were and are those who believed (including gentiles).

zone · Dec 14, 2013

ChosenbyHim said:

Zone, Daniel's 70th week is not something to joke about. Daniel's 70th week (time of Jacob's trouble) Will be one of the worst times on this Earth. The tribulation will be so great and severe in Daniel's 70th week that even the days will have to be shortened (Matt. 24:22) for the elect's sake, and so that some fresh can be saved.

zone · Dec 14, 2013

ChosenbyHim said:

you make a joke of it every time you TEACH it was not fulfilled by Christ.
and worse, when you attribute His work to the devil in that week.

BradC · Dec 14, 2013

Romans 11:1-15 I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” 4 But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”6 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace (this can be applied presently without a problem). 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect (who believed) obtained it, but the rest (of Israel)were hardened (hardened by who, does not God hardeneth whom he will Rom 9:18), 8 as it is written,

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.” (this speaks of those who were rejected and some have rejected the fact that God has done this to the rest of Israel)

9 And David says,
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them;
10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,
and bend their backs for ever.”

Gentiles Grafted In

11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! (Are we to assume that there might be a FULL inclusion? Shame on us for doing such a thing, for God would never extend that kind of mercy and goodness to such a rebellious lot seeing the condition they are in. We should count them for nothing then to see God deliver and reinstate these rebellious and rejected people through mercy when they see him and repent as the one whom they pierced.)

...15 For if Israel's rejection (those in unbelief and not the remnant) means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? (Are we to believe that God has a plan to accept the unbelieving Israel again after they were rejected? How heretical and presumptuous of us to believe such a merciful thing could come from God when these people have rejected Christ as Messiah all these years)

Hard to kick against these pricks, don't you think?

SarahM777 · Dec 14, 2013

BradC said:

You might want to continue that passage

Romans 11

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith.Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree,how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

It is CONDITIONAL on whether they remain in unbelief or not.

2Thewaters · Dec 14, 2013

Dispensationalism is like any other sensationalism

It is a coverup to try and explain why they dont follow the commandments
Since they are teaching all their church members to break the commandments
so since they are not interested at all in REEMBERING Gods Commandments like Jesus taught they have to come up with some theory why they dont have to do what Jesus told them to do.
so they can keep taking their money and tithes and yet they dont have to teach the truth
which would make more than 90 percent go to some other church of easy salvation

It is a coverup of their broad way to heaven which God says does not exist

and they want to keep teachig their members its ok to break the commandments and live selfishley.

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least ten commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach the ten commandments,
the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

So God says the dispensationalists are not great people,

zone · Dec 14, 2013

BradC said:

Romans 11:1-15 I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” 4 But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”6 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace (this can be applied presently without a problem). 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect (who believed) obtained it, but the rest (of Israel)were hardened (hardened by who, does not God hardeneth whom he will Rom 9:18), 8 as it is written,

“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.” (this speaks of those who were rejected and some have rejected the fact that God has done this to the rest of Israel)

9 And David says,
“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them;
10 let their eyes be darkened so that they cannot see,
and bend their backs for ever.”

Gentiles Grafted In

11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous. 12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean! (Are we to assume that there might be a FULL inclusion? Shame on us for doing such a thing, for God would never extend that kind of mercy and goodness to such a rebellious lot seeing the condition they are in. We should count them for nothing then to see God deliver and reinstate these rebellious and rejected people through mercy when they see him and repent as the one whom they pierced.)

...15 For if Israel's rejection (those in unbelief and not the remnant) means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? (Are we to believe that God has a plan to accept the unbelieving Israel again after they were rejected? How heretical and presumptuous of us to believe such a merciful thing could come from God when these people have rejected Christ as Messiah all these years)

Hard to kick against these pricks, don't you think?

.

yawn. another dispie rant.

Romans 11:11 Cross References
Rom 11:11 Cross References (13 Verses)

look that over - see if it helps.

BradC · Dec 14, 2013

SarahM777 said:

Their is no debate whatsoever that Jesus was born as king of the Jews and of Israel and to suggest otherwise is not wise. Jesus came unto his own and they did not receive him and rejected him. They did not want him to be the Christ nor to be their king and had him crucified. Jesus did not reign as king of the Jews nor of Israel and he had no throne but rather a cross, nor did he set up and restore the kingdom. The temple was destroyed and the Jews were dispersed without a kingdom. The church and body of Christ is what Christ built on earth by sending the Spirit to indwell believers that the gates of hell would not prevail against. There would be troubles, trials, persecutions and tribulations for the church but God would prevail and teach believers how to have dominion over the old sin nature and to endure with patience and longsuffering these other things. He would teach them how to receive grace and truth and to have peace and joy and walk in the light of his love. He would teach them how to be merciful and to forgive others and to be filled with the Spirit. These and much more were to be the principles of truth that would govern the lives of believers who would have no continuing city but would seek one to come.

The church was not designed nor given the authority to establish a kingdom on the earth that would have dominion over others or over nations. The church is given an abundance of grace multiplied to have fellowship, to overcome sin, to preach the gospel, to be servants and doormats and be considered the least. They are to take up a cross and decrease in the eyes of the world and lifted up the Son of man so that men could be drawn to the cross and receive a new life from above where Christ now sits. We as believers are strangers and sojourners just passing through in bodies of sin and death that is perishing. Read Acts 7 and tell me if you see a kingdom reigning or if you see grace reigning through the righteousness of the Spirit bringing conviction into the hearts of men that resulted in the persecution and death of a precious servant who being stoned fell sleep and was received into the presence of the Lord in heaven.

BradC · Dec 14, 2013

zone said:

It is very clear and evident what this is saying but some will not receive it or accept what has been written. That is pretty much how a spirit of stupor operates and is applied these days.

peacefulbeliever · Dec 14, 2013

zone said:

Since we are relating "Israel" scriptually; then we will stick to Israel being Jacob and his twelve sons - the twelve tribes - the "children of Israel".

I don't recall this - maybe you can refresh my memory.

IOW - the "children of Israel" would be in the line of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, etc. - those to whom God made the promise - Abraham and his seed

The promise was made to physical Abraham and his seed - fulfilled by one seed - Jesus Christ - the promise of Gen. 3:15. We see how God deals with Israel on a physical level and also a spiritual level.

IOW - You do not believe that everlasting means everlasting? A covenant is a solemn promise binding two parties in agreement. These cannot be refuted nor can they be "fulfilled in part" . . . . I hope when scripture says "whosoever believes in him shall have everlasting life" - that we really do have everlasting life.

God has permanently rejected Israel and embraced the Church as his chosen people?
The Church has assumed the destiny and the promises made to Israel (the twelve tribes)?

In regard to Israel as a whole and the Church - when it comes to the promises of God - I see them as being "both/and" rather than an "either/or".

zone · Dec 14, 2013

BradC said:

see, we can't have a real discussion, because of this bizarre dispensational nonsense is the stronghold in your mind.
you refuse to consider the remedy.
your fake love for israel is already revealed by your claim they were excluded from the promises; and that you plan to be in the air when they get slaughtered...and your support for war (to hurry up your rapture).

in any case, i doubt you looked at the resource.
Paul's simple explanation, some will be saved....see? easy.

notice the progression of thought:

Acts 28:24-28
And some were convinced by what he said, but others disbelieved. And disagreeing among themselves, they departed after Paul had made one statement: “The Holy Spirit was right in saying to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet: “‘Go to this people, and say, You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive. For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’ Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will listen.”

so your explanation that GOD DID THIS TO THEM HIMSELF TO "MAKE TIME" FOR THE GENTILES TO BE SAVED is unspeakable.

you keep using Paul. why don't you believe EVERYTHING he said?
because it doesn't fit with your Mystery Gentile Parenthesis Church Gap Age - from WHICH THEY WERE EXCLUDED.

“‘Go to this people, and say, You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive. For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’

"And some were convinced by what he said, but others disbelieved. And disagreeing among themselves, they departed after Paul had made one statement: “The Holy Spirit was right in saying to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet:"

"Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will listen.”"

Romans 10:19
But I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says, “I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation; with a foolish nation I will make you angry.”

Romans 11:1
I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.

Romans 11:11
So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.

Romans 11:14
in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.

Romans 11:31
so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy.

Acts 18:6
And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”

Acts 13:46-48
And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’” And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

do you believe EVERYTHING PAUL said?

Ezekiel 18:23
Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord God, and not rather that he should turn from his way and live?

Ezekiel 18:32
For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Lord God; so turn, and live.”

Ezekiel 33:11
Say to them, As I live, declares the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live; turn back, turn back from your evil ways, for why will you die, O house of Israel?

Rom 11:11 Cross References (13 Verses)

THE QUESTION AT THE TIME:
WE THOUGHT ALL THE JEWS WOULD BE SAVED?
WHAT'S HAPPENING?
WE FIGURE THAT THEY WERE CUT OFF SO THAT WE COULD BE GRAFTED IN (< this is YOUR thinking, Red)

NO, PAUL SAID, THEY WERE CUT OFF DUE TO UNBELIEF, AND YOU WERE WERE GRAFTED IN BECAUSE YOU BELIEVE.

IF THEY BELIEVE, THEY CAN BE GRAFTED BACK IN.

Romans 11
The Remnant of Israel
1I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham,a a member of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel? 3“Lord, they have killed your prophets, they have demolished your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life.” 4But what is God’s reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

but no, you have God BLINDING THEM ON PURPOSE (out of some NON-Mercy) FOR 2000 YEARS to make TIME to call the gentiles....for your Mystery Gentile Parenthesis Church Gap Age - from WHICH THEY WERE EXCLUDED.

SarahM777 · Dec 14, 2013

BradC said:

Jesus Kingdom is the kingdom of HEAVEN. Jesus told them plainly His kingdom is NOT of this earth. Hebrews tells us what the men and women of faith were looking for and it WAS NOT an earthly city.

Hebrews 11

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth. 14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one.Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

No matter how much anyone wants to slice it,dice it and put it through a blender an eternal promise of a TEMPORARY LAND is still temporary. But an eternal promise of an ETERNAL land is ETERNAL.

ChosenbyHim · Dec 14, 2013

zone said:

The rapture has not happened yet. But it will happen very soon. It is very close and imminent. Read and study your Bible.

The time of Jacob's trouble is to bring unbelieving Israel into correction. Read Jeremiah 30.

Also, every Christian has an appointment at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

BradC · Dec 14, 2013

zone said:

It stares you right in the face and you call it a 'dipsie' rant. This is what happens to those who have to allegorize the scriptures to take away from the truth to fit their own private interpretation, instead of taking what it says and comparing it spiritual with spiritual. You can make fun of it and mock it but you can't refute what it is saying. You can't take away or remove a single thing from the text to make the emphasis that you want to make for that would border on handling the word deceitfully or for your own purposes.

zone · Dec 14, 2013

peacefulbeliever said:

if you mean you want to reject that Paul said those who are in Christ are the Israel of God, and proceed to discuss the nation of ancient israel - being Jacob and his twelve sons - the twelve tribes - the "children of Israel", okay.

peacefulbeliever said:

Hosea 11:1
Out of Egypt I called my Son
1When Israel was a youth I loved him, And out of Egypt I called My son. 2The more they called them, The more they went from them; They kept sacrificing to the Baals And burning incense to idols.

Matthew 2:15
where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: "Out of Egypt I called my son."

but isn't that spiritualizing?

not only was Jesus the Second Adam, He was the Second Israel - the True Israel...standing in the stead for His people (who had failed and needed a Kinsman Redeemer)...but not all received Him...right?

i dunno....this is a difficult thing to work with.

peacefulbeliever said:

right.
but not all Israel are Israel:

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

what does paul mean?
spiritualizing?
why is HE making a distinction between Israel and Israel?

peacefulbeliever said:

i posted a passage that said everlasting.
it included sacrificing animals to make atonement every year.
even IF that were to be resumed in a future millennium (which is preposterous)...it wasn't EVERLASTING since it hasn't been happening for 2000 years.

peacefulbeliever said:

WHAT COVENANT peaceful?

which is the Real Promise God has always been upholding?

Genesis 3:15
15And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel."

Luke 24
On the Road to Emmaus
13That very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, about seven milesa from Jerusalem, 14and they were talking with each other about all these things that had happened. 15While they were talking and discussing together, Jesus himself drew near and went with them. 16But their eyes were kept from recognizing him. 17And he said to them, “What is this conversation that you are holding with each other as you walk?” And they stood still, looking sad. 18Then one of them, named Cleopas, answered him, “Are you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know the things that have happened there in these days?” 19And he said to them, “What things?” And they said to him, “Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, a man who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people, 20and how our chief priests and rulers delivered him up to be condemned to death, and crucified him. 21But we had hoped that he was the one to redeem Israel. Yes, and besides all this, it is now the third day since these things happened. 22Moreover, some women of our company amazed us. They were at the tomb early in the morning, 23and when they did not find his body, they came back saying that they had even seen a vision of angels, who said that he was alive. 24Some of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said, but him they did not see.” 25And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” 27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

Galatians 3
By Faith, or by Works of the Law?
1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected bya the flesh? 4Did you sufferb so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?

7Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justifyc the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” 9So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

The Righteous Shall Live by Faith
10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”d 12But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirite through faith.

The Law and the Promise
15To give a human example, brothers:f even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

19Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

21Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slaveg nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

peacefulbeliever said:

can you just please take a good long look at this dichotomy you believe?
just read that bit above and see how absurd it really is...i know you absorbed this from dispensationalism, peaceful, but you really really want to put it aside as soon as you can.

peacefulbeliever said:

NO.

God did NOT permanently reject Israel and devise a distinct entity called the Church to have INSTEAD as his "chosen people"
The Church IS the destiny and the promises made to Israel (the twelve tribes)....those who BELIEVE.

why is this hard?
how can ANYONE continue with this line of thought in good conscience?
really....do you honestly, in your heart not know that ISRAEL WHO BELIEVED BECAME THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST HIS BODY?

this system is just astounding to me. it's like a BRICK WALL.

peacefulbeliever said:

huh?
what do you mean "when it comes to the promises of God"?

both/and?

there's ONE PROMISE.
salvation and blessing in Jesus Christ and eternal life with God.

The Israel of God

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