Women Keep Silent (Please Don't Derail)
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Peace be with you, women please understand that you are equally accepted in the Kingdom of GOD, the Church with man, called as sons and daughters, who also cry out by the Help of the HOLY SPIRIT, 'ABBA', 'FATHER'.
The Holy Scriptures talks about two characteristic women, even men alike, where one is in ignorance to the Living Testament but holding the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT in serving but then again in their daily lives they continue to practice lawlessness, which is disobeying the Words of the Living Testament, not realizing and understanding the consequences..
There are then the other who equally hold the gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT in serving but also then again in their daily lives they practice abiding obedience to the Words of the Living Testament, realizing in humble and humility and women in possessing a gentle and quiet spirit like their mother Sarah, diligently seeking them and hope in the crown of glory to come. also including men alike in their Living instructions.
GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST in HIS Words of the Living Testament, through HIS SON and through the HOLY SPIRIT, the ONE who inspired the Holy Bible, seek these of HIS sons and daughters and not man.
Be encouraged and not be discouraged, for the ONE who corrects and loves us, speak to us, as a reminder and a stir up of our memories and then again not man.
HE reminds us this, written in the Holy Scripture that;
"Come into the Light (the New Living Testament) while the Light is still with you, so that when gross darkness takes over, you will not stumble."
For those who want to continue in ignorance of their weakness and fail to come boldly to the throne of Grace, seek HIS Help, in HIS mercy, as our sympathizing GREAT HIGH PRIEST in Heaven, who is beside the FATHER, pleading and praying for us day and night, for HE still loves all of them and laments about them like this, who is still the same yesterday, today and forever, Amen;
"I was like a mother hen, who try to gather (through My written Living Words) her chicks but you would not let me."
"My Words have not found room in your hearts."
May the GOOD GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, forgive all of us and help us in all our weaknesses, upon our acknowledging confessions day and night and help us to grow in excellence, in order to worship HIM in spirit and truth.
The Holy Scriptures talks about two characteristic women, even men alike, where one is in ignorance to the Living Testament but holding the gift of the HOLY SPIRIT in serving but then again in their daily lives they continue to practice lawlessness, which is disobeying the Words of the Living Testament, not realizing and understanding the consequences..
There are then the other who equally hold the gifts of the HOLY SPIRIT in serving but also then again in their daily lives they practice abiding obedience to the Words of the Living Testament, realizing in humble and humility and women in possessing a gentle and quiet spirit like their mother Sarah, diligently seeking them and hope in the crown of glory to come. also including men alike in their Living instructions.
GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST in HIS Words of the Living Testament, through HIS SON and through the HOLY SPIRIT, the ONE who inspired the Holy Bible, seek these of HIS sons and daughters and not man.
Be encouraged and not be discouraged, for the ONE who corrects and loves us, speak to us, as a reminder and a stir up of our memories and then again not man.
HE reminds us this, written in the Holy Scripture that;
"Come into the Light (the New Living Testament) while the Light is still with you, so that when gross darkness takes over, you will not stumble."
For those who want to continue in ignorance of their weakness and fail to come boldly to the throne of Grace, seek HIS Help, in HIS mercy, as our sympathizing GREAT HIGH PRIEST in Heaven, who is beside the FATHER, pleading and praying for us day and night, for HE still loves all of them and laments about them like this, who is still the same yesterday, today and forever, Amen;
"I was like a mother hen, who try to gather (through My written Living Words) her chicks but you would not let me."
"My Words have not found room in your hearts."
May the GOOD GOD the FATHER of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, forgive all of us and help us in all our weaknesses, upon our acknowledging confessions day and night and help us to grow in excellence, in order to worship HIM in spirit and truth.
G
Man is first in the order is what 1 Tim. 2:13-14 teaches. But, then, who IS 2nd in the order? Woman.
It's not that she's excluded completely, hence, there is no 'prohibition' as one person on here enjoys using that word to cut off women from ever preaching or teaching to a man in a church.
But, it's order.
And, it's the same order that Christ explains in a marriage.....
Christ is the head of man and man is the head of woman.
Simple. Hopefully, that unconfuses things for you all
"A woman[SUP]a[/SUP] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[SUP]b[/SUP] she must be quiet. 13For Adam was formed first (Adam is A MAN ) , then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[SUP]c[/SUP] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety." 1 Tim. 2:11-15
A man is first in the order of ONLY between a man and a woman for speaking and teaching in the church. Why? Adam was not the one deceived, it was the woman, who was deceived and became a sinner.
This speaks of order, and, of course, we can assume that if man is in front of the woman in terms of order, based on this verse formed by God through Holy Spirit-breathed out words of Paul from paypyrus to bible, then, Christ is the head, is the husband of a man
It's not that she's excluded completely, hence, there is no 'prohibition' as one person on here enjoys using that word to cut off women from ever preaching or teaching to a man in a church.
But, it's order.
And, it's the same order that Christ explains in a marriage.....
Christ is the head of man and man is the head of woman.
Simple. Hopefully, that unconfuses things for you all
"A woman[SUP]a[/SUP] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[SUP]b[/SUP] she must be quiet. 13For Adam was formed first (Adam is A MAN
) , then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[SUP]c[/SUP] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety." 1 Tim. 2:11-15A man is first in the order of ONLY between a man and a woman for speaking and teaching in the church. Why? Adam was not the one deceived, it was the woman, who was deceived and became a sinner.
This speaks of order, and, of course, we can assume that if man is in front of the woman in terms of order, based on this verse formed by God through Holy Spirit-breathed out words of Paul from paypyrus to bible, then, Christ is the head, is the husband of a man
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He does not say they are not to speak out of order. He says they are not to speak. Let's look at the context of chapter 14 beginning with verse 23. Paul is discussing prophesying and speaking in tongues in the assembly.
23Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? 24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you. 26What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; 28but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. 29Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. 30But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. 31For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; 32and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; 33for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 34The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. 36Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only? 37If anyone thinksheis a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. 40But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.
Notice - the occasion is if the whole church assembles together. The anyone of verse 27 is qualified by the he of verse 28. This instruction is given to all the churches of the saints. In the context of the prophesying and tongues, The women are to keep silent and are not permitted to speak. Their subjection is to be self imposed - subject themselves. Clarification for whatever questions they may have is to be addressed at home. Why? Because it is improper for a woman to speak in church.
23Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad? 24But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all; 25the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you. 26What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; 28but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. 29Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. 30But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. 31For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; 32and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; 33for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 34The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says. 35If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church. 36Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only? 37If anyone thinksheis a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord’s commandment. 38But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. 39Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. 40But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.
Notice - the occasion is if the whole church assembles together. The anyone of verse 27 is qualified by the he of verse 28. This instruction is given to all the churches of the saints. In the context of the prophesying and tongues, The women are to keep silent and are not permitted to speak. Their subjection is to be self imposed - subject themselves. Clarification for whatever questions they may have is to be addressed at home. Why? Because it is improper for a woman to speak in church.
G
Exactly, it's not up to us to decide what God does, or, what his order is. It is what it is, but it is His and we better best OBEY His order, not to mention, we bettter best obey His orders
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And, so when I bring up 1 Timothy 2: 11-15 explaining order is what women are to do in terms of preaching and teaching to a man, we then get to hear someone give a long bold-face-black explanation of why there is order from totally different verses than were applied to the discussion, or, argument, as long as that's said in love, as twowaters said aptly should be done, or, else your interpreting the verses out of Love.
We ALL should want to love as God Loves us. It's work , but with work (liike through ALL our lives) we will ALL get there
The Lord leads. "...you follow Me." John 21:22 Wow, talk about order !!! YOU follow Me.
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1 Cor. 14:34-35 speaks to a husband to a wife, we all can see the EARTHLY meaning, but, if one wants to think in spiritual terms then it is just as KJVer1611 says:
husband=Christ
wife=His sheep (that's us, you dumb fluffs, we who believe in His grace, through faith in Him ) .
=============================
And, so when I bring up 1 Timothy 2: 11-15 explaining order is what women are to do in terms of preaching and teaching to a man, we then get to hear someone give a long bold-face-black explanation of why there is order from totally different verses than were applied to the discussion, or, argument, as long as that's said in love, as twowaters said aptly should be done, or, else your interpreting the verses out of Love.
We ALL should want to love as God Loves us. It's work , but with work (liike through ALL our lives) we will ALL get there
The Lord leads. "...you follow Me." John 21:22 Wow, talk about order !!! YOU follow Me.
------------
1 Cor. 14:34-35 speaks to a husband to a wife, we all can see the EARTHLY meaning, but, if one wants to think in spiritual terms then it is just as KJVer1611 says:
husband=Christ
wife=His sheep (that's us, you dumb fluffs, we who believe in His grace, through faith in Him
) .
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I think a lot could be answered with two words - Time and Place = Back in that Time women were very subservient and their place in the church was probably separate from the men. So if they had questions they were instructed to ask their husbands when they got home rather than to disrupt the service. Why are we making this so hard? I don't think it has anything to do with whether women should speak and teach in church at all.. just my 2 cents worth...
D
Do you “call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord”? If so then wouldn’t the instructions given in 1Cor also apply to us today?
1Cor 1:1-2 Paul, called to be an apostle of JesusChrist through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
We either believe and accept what these verses tell us ormfind excuses like this was for another time or place to justify our unbelief.
Accept the Scriptures to your benefit or reject them to your detriment.
As you are led friend, as you are led!
1Cor 1:1-2 Paul, called to be an apostle of JesusChrist through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
We either believe and accept what these verses tell us ormfind excuses like this was for another time or place to justify our unbelief.
Accept the Scriptures to your benefit or reject them to your detriment.
As you are led friend, as you are led!
Officially derailed lol.
It's funny, people are arguing over something that is so cut and dry in the bible that is silly to even debate it. Why don't you just do like Abraham did... believe God. Abraham didn't argue about God asking him to offer up Isaac, he just did it... faithfully. The only reason God asked Abraham to offer up Isaac was to foreshadow the offering up of Christ.
The only reason God does not permit women to speak in church is to foreshadow how a believer should learn about Lord. So why don't you just be obedient like Abraham.
It's funny, people are arguing over something that is so cut and dry in the bible that is silly to even debate it. Why don't you just do like Abraham did... believe God. Abraham didn't argue about God asking him to offer up Isaac, he just did it... faithfully. The only reason God asked Abraham to offer up Isaac was to foreshadow the offering up of Christ.
The only reason God does not permit women to speak in church is to foreshadow how a believer should learn about Lord. So why don't you just be obedient like Abraham.
B
Correct. We women are authorized by God to sing hymns and spiritual songs as well as granted participation in prayer within the congregation.
As far as God is concerned, godly women should be adorned "with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." ...just saying.
As far as God is concerned, godly women should be adorned "with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." ...just saying.
Oldhermit do you think the bible is a rule book and a guide book to help us to grow up to be a good obedient Christian?
I hope not because the bible is about Jesus... it's not a rule book. The bible is how we come to know Jesus personally. Every page is about him, not us. He is the word of God... he is the bible.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
I hope not because the bible is about Jesus... it's not a rule book. The bible is how we come to know Jesus personally. Every page is about him, not us. He is the word of God... he is the bible.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Yes I believe in Jesus and Yes if I lived back in that Time I would follow the instructions that Paul wrote to the church in Corinth. Times have changed and I live in 2013 and women preach and teach now in church. Paul also wrote that he would change his methods of reaching people so that all would come to the knowledge of Christ. I stand by my Time and Place response. Times change and I am of the same mind as Paul to do what ever it takes to spread the gospel so if that means I speak I will. God bless you and thanks for your comment.
Correct. We women are authorized by God to sing hymns and spiritual songs as well as granted participation in prayer within the congregation.
As far as God is concerned, godly women should be adorned "with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." ...just saying.
As far as God is concerned, godly women should be adorned "with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." ...just saying.
You are correct. The Bible is not just a collection of soteriology, eschatology, theology, and epistemology. It is not just a set of narratives and history. The Bible is a representational document that represents the mind of God. In 1Cor 14, God has revealed his mind to us concerning the roles of men and women in the assembly. He has established rules and restrictions in the Church for both men and women. 1Cor 14 just happens to deal with prohibitions he has place upon women in the assembly.
This is clearly not true. It was done to test Abraham's faith. You are missing a critical understanding of scripture - much of it has two significations, a current signification, and a future prophecy. You are demeaning the current signification here. Take Christ's prophecy of the destruction of the temple. That also had a second prophetic meaning as foretelling the second coming. Much of the OT covenant was prophetic, but had an immediate signification of justification by law.
The congregation was a formal assembly of the church. Man is the head of woman. It was and is therefore appropriate for women to keep their place, just as it is appropriate for man to keep his place vis-a-vis order in the congregation.
The congregation in those days was very unlike our present assemblies, that are largely derived from the Catholic model, and make a distinction between the laity and the ministers or pastors. This is not a biblical model.
Brethren churches are probably most like the early church assemblies (structurally) where every brother has the right to get up and speak.
The congregation was a formal assembly of the church. Man is the head of woman. It was and is therefore appropriate for women to keep their place, just as it is appropriate for man to keep his place vis-a-vis order in the congregation.
The congregation in those days was very unlike our present assemblies, that are largely derived from the Catholic model, and make a distinction between the laity and the ministers or pastors. This is not a biblical model.
Brethren churches are probably most like the early church assemblies (structurally) where every brother has the right to get up and speak.