Women Keep Silent (Please Don't Derail)

[homwardbound]

Of course he is talking about the physical woman. He proves this in the illustration he provides. "For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve."
2 Tim 2:14-15 - "And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint." These stress the physical woman who is capable of speaking, exorcising self-restraint and bearing children.

Well to look at what is said in Romans 7 is an allegory of being freed to love as God loves instead of being married to flesh we are to be married to God through Son
It is Paul using a physical analogy to bring home the Spiritual reality.
At least this is what I see as to teach me the fight of flesh and the Spirit of God and to make the choice to trust God as in being alive to God by the Spirit of God and dead to flesh, through the death, burial, resurrection and ascension of Christ unto the Heavens where Christ and Father have sent us the Holy Spirit to lead us if we decide to believe God in this and be free in God. led by God to love all as God has shown us, through Son who did nothing and or said nothing without Father's lead. It is the same Holy Ghost that is sent to us is it not?

 

[homwardbound]

1. For you naysayers that think I'm taking things out of context. This principle of the husband and the woman is illustrated here in Romans 7.
   
   In the first 3 verses of Romans 7, Paul is giving the earthly example of how a woman is bound to the law of her husband as long as her husband lives. If the husband dies, then the wife is free to marry another. All of this is an Old Testament shadow of the real thing to come in Christ.
   
   Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
   Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
   Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
   
   
   In verses 4 - 6, Paul is showing us the New Testament meaning of verses 1-3.
   
   
   Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
   Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
   Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
   
   We are dead to the law because our flesh has been crucified with Christ. Our soul, the woman, is free to marry another... Christ, our new husband. We are no longer bound to the law when we are in Christ.
2. Yes you are right in that part, but to say we are female all of us, is an extension to the fact that all Paul was showing us is the fight between the flesh and the Spirit of God. And Paul really brings this home in romans 8
   Romans 8:1

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 8:4 that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

Romans 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

Romans 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[KJV1611]

Hmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!! when from God's sight, viewpoint, advantage there is no:
Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

So how do we fit that into your discernment?

If we have put on Christ then our flesh has been crucified with Christ, it doesn't exist anymore. The flesh was replaced by Christ so there is no more Jew, Greek, male female. The soul however, does still exist. The soul is the woman.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

 

[homwardbound]

Well, this post sounds somewhat like the interpretations of Augustine and allegory that is totally made up in the interpreter's mind. You would have fit very well into the 3 and 4th centuries of the church. I wish I could remember some of the absurd allegories that existed in that era of the church, which no one has ever heard of again, simply because they were so untrue.

I think you are taking the metaphor of the church (plural) being the bride of Christ, and misapplying it. By saying that Paul was writing this as a metaphor simply does not hold up.

1 Corinthians should be led in light of all of the book of 1st Corinthians, and to a lesser extent, 2 Corinthians and of course the rest of Paul's writing.

Women keeping silent in church was an instruction to that church, in that time, and maybe to a specific woman.

"For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church." 1 Cor. 14:35

Notice it says "A" woman.

I am planning to do a whole post on this sometime in the near future. Get into the Greek a bit, and such.

But not a twisted allegory, I promise!

Was not the whole context of Paul's writing to the Corinthians to straighten out the Heresy that they received in the Spiritual warfare. of thinking since they were forgiven 100% by and from God through Christ as were told by and through Paul to them.
They were taking it for granted with the thought of hey I can do what I want now, what my flesh desires, I can eat up all the food, drink all the wine, have sex with whomever I choose and invite the Brothel from above us and have sex with them in our place of, and these women were the one's with shaven heads. And so disorder took place, I mean we are forgiven so why not
So now read the Corinthians letter from Chapter one, knowing why this was written and what Paul was trying to show them about being 100% forgiven, and to not take it for granted
And they saw this, and Paul heard that they see now, and had a Godly repentance over the worldly one they had. Told to us in 2 Cor. 7
You see if you are still carnal and are not ready to receive or have not received the meat of the word and are Babes, then you need the Law to bring you to the meat of the word.

 

[homwardbound]

Ok. I see. You were looking at verse 35. This is singular indefinite. I was looking in verse 34 which reads αἱ γυναῖκες - definite plural. "The women are to keep silent in the churches - This is locative of position which tells us where they are to keep silent.

What was and is the context of the entire letter written to the Corinth Place of gathering?
Why did Paul write this, see my other post to Angela, praying you see through and not that I know anything, God is the one that does all discernment in order to bring peace, joy and righteousness to us through Son the way, the truth and the new life in the Spirit of Christ, given to us at the resurrected Christ if we believe

 

[homwardbound]

This does not have anything to do with women being unruly or disruptive. This has to do with divinely established positions and roles within the Church.

So is your post seeing from a flesh level or the Spirit of God's sight through Christ

 

[KJV1611]

1. Yes you are right in that part, but to say we are female all of us, is an extension to the fact that all Paul was showing us is the fight between the flesh and the Spirit of God. And Paul really brings this home in romans 8
   

The flesh is the male... the husband.
The soul of everyone whether they are a guy or girl is a woman. Of course this is symbolic language an individual is not made up of male and female. The Lord uses these symbols to show us how Christ becomes our husband. The soul was married to the flesh. The flesh is destroyed by Christ, the soul then becomes free to marry Christ, which results in the birth of our spirit... Body (Christ), Soul (woman), Spirit (the twain, Christ and the woman shall become one - spiritual birth).

Psa_34:2 My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.

 

[homwardbound]

Indeed. It will always be an error to "structure" a concept of God into our space and time to accommodate the World's mind-set. Our arrogance blinds us to not comply with God's decisions.

The Holy Bible has given us reasonable instructions for us to obey. God is holy Sovereign over all the Earth; therefore, God deserves our obedience in all that we say, see, think, do. The Lord is good.

BTW, Welcome to CC, Buckets.

So Bottom line what is the way?
By flesh that will never please God or by The Spirit of God , the perfect law of liberty?
What was Paul referring to in each written letter? Was it the fight between flesh and the Spirit of God?

 

[homwardbound]

Times and places may change but, God does not.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
The inspired word of God is for all in all ages, we can't just toss Scripture out because times and customs have changed!

What from day one has never changed?
Is it not Mercy
Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance
Matthew 12:7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.


Is anything new under the Sun (SON)? Yes Father never changes, seek Father's Mercy and appreciate it when received and love as father does

 

[homwardbound]

Paul's letters were not only to the church of Corinth at that time, they were also to "all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord".

1Cor 1:1-2 Paul, called to be an apostle of JesusChrist through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If all Scripture is given by inspiration of God then Paul was just a messenger delivering a message to all that call upon the name of Jesus Christ. Wouldn't that include all believers in all places at all times?

Freind request accepted and may God bless your studies!

And is not the bottom line in all that is written this:
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 

[homwardbound]

If we have put on Christ then our flesh has been crucified with Christ, it doesn't exist anymore. The flesh was replaced by Christ so there is no more Jew, Greek, male female. The soul however, does still exist. The soul is the woman.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Romans 2:11 for there is no respect of persons with God.

Is Paul any better than you me or anyone? Is Peter? Is James? Is Christ himself?
Or are we made one with Christ by and through his death, Holy before God, whether female or male?
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

So is that truth what Christ did in Father's sight or not?
And how can you or anyone ever improve on Holy? Is there any better than Holy? Is Holy not made perfect as what God has required of us?
Can anyone in the flesh do what Christ has already done?

 

[homwardbound]

If we have put on Christ then our flesh has been crucified with Christ, it doesn't exist anymore. The flesh was replaced by Christ so there is no more Jew, Greek, male female. The soul however, does still exist. The soul is the woman.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

So is your flesh thus crucified? what and how are you alive right now?

 

[homwardbound]

The flesh is the male... the husband.
The soul of everyone whether they are a guy or girl is a woman. Of course this is symbolic language an individual is not made up of male and female. The Lord uses these symbols to show us how Christ becomes our husband. The soul was married to the flesh. The flesh is destroyed by Christ, the soul then becomes free to marry Christ, which results in the birth of our spirit... Body (Christ), Soul (woman), Spirit (the twain, Christ and the woman shall become one - spiritual birth).

Psa_34:2 My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.

Be it as you may, you have the free choice, I agree with you, but not to the point that we are all feminine.
Regardless it is what it is what Christ did for us all, whether male or feamale, Jew or Greek it matters not.
It is of the circumcision of the Heart not flesh as you are alluding to.
Which much exegesis can and gets extrapolated off of this.
Anyway you slice it, dice it and or cube it, you are sandwhiching a lie between at least two truths. At least from where I see this and am personally seeing this from my Father in Heaven through Son being told by the Holy Spirit of Father. The same Holy Spirit that led Christ to the cross for us all that believe to receive new life in Father in the Spirit of Father by the resurrected Christ to walk in the Spirit and not flesh
In Flesh there is Male and Female. In the Spirit of Father thanks to son there is no flesh, So therefore there is no male and female in the Spirit of God Christ's Father. for Christ came to earth as a life-giving Spirit, and this is done by the resurrected Christ fro us to us those that belief Father

 

[2Thewaters]

Jesus is God
You can pray to God
I promise.

 

[Crazylove]

I agree that we should let th Holy Spirit teach us, not man. I feel if we as Christian would hav took this 2 heart, division w/in ourselves would not exist. Division derails Christ, becuz it make Him look in decisive. If church were 2 unite Christ would b shown more w/in Christianity.
By th way, God would not reveal things to women or bless them if they were not 2 speak in church. Man mayb th head of woman, but remember Christ is th head of man. I think many think man is head of man in churches today.....

 

[4enlightment]

We have no issues with Thomas himself, just the 'lost' false gospel attributed to him (that was written well after Jesus time on earth).

Assigning a date to the Gospel of Thomas is very complex because it is difficult to know precisely to what a date is being assigned. Scholars have proposed a date as early as AD 40 or as late as AD 140, depending upon whether the Gospel of Thomas is identified with the original core of sayings, or with the author's published text, or with the Greek or Coptic texts, or with parallels in other literature
​Gospel of Thomas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[GreenNnice]

If we have put on Christ then our flesh has been crucified with Christ, it doesn't exist anymore. The flesh was replaced by Christ so there is no more Jew, Greek, male female. The soul however, does still exist. The soul is the woman.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

How is the soul of man qualities = a woman ?

How does this relate to your title, 'Women Keep Silent,' and, what kinds of things does a Christ follower and how do you relate this part of Galatians 2:20?

"For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. 20"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 21"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."


How does the grace of God apply to "Women Keep Silent" and aren't you saying in this thread that our husband is God and we are all the wives of Him, we are all to be quiet ? This relates how to 1 Tim. 2:11-12, since those verses speak of 'man' and 'woman' and not 'husband' and 'wife' like 1 Cor. 14:34-35 does ?

Does God give His grace to women who are now preaching in churches to male-femail congregations?
Would God's grace = God's call on that particular woman's life who is a pastor of that church?

Hopefully, this does not sound too off topic, I'm just trying to make sense of things as the Lord leads me to speak, brother

 

[KJV1611]

How is the soul of man qualities = a woman ?

How does this relate to your title, 'Women Keep Silent,' and, what kinds of things does a Christ follower and how do you relate this part of Galatians 2:20?

"For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. 20"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. 21"I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."


How does the grace of God apply to "Women Keep Silent" and aren't you saying in this thread that our husband is God and we are all the wives of Him, we are all to be quiet ? This relates how to 1 Tim. 2:11-12, since those verses speak of 'man' and 'woman' and not 'husband' and 'wife' like 1 Cor. 14:34-35 does ?

Does God give His grace to women who are now preaching in churches to male-femail congregations?
Would God's grace = God's call on that particular woman's life who is a pastor of that church?

Hopefully, this does not sound too off topic, I'm just trying to make sense of things as the Lord leads me to speak, brother

GreenNnice, this has nothing to do with women keeping silent... sorry for the confusion I should have made another thread instead of putting it in this one. I am going to start a new thread on the soul and the woman. Please join, I would like to explain how the soul = woman.

 

[p_rehbein]

................ any of it.............

 

[JesusLives]

Being teachable is not at issue, your unmarried status is. I will ask again for you to disclose your marriage status and if you are an elder of your church.

You cannot teach me anyway because I am not under your authority and neither are any of the women here on CC or your own church, you are unmarried and attempting to fill the role of a husband, by teaching married women on the chatboard.


If you are an elder and unmarried, disclose it and do the right thing and step down. You have zero authority over me, so spare me the your are unteachable speech...whats next from you? The dreaded internet chat room REBUKE!?!?

I don't think being married or not is the issue here. Paul was unmarried and he wrote the instruction to the church- just saying. I believe women can speak and teach. I felt lead by the spirit and my pastor gave his permission for me to preach a sermon in my church back in August this year (2013). My topic - Do You Understand Salvation? I believe I had God's blessing on the subject matter. I still stick by my original response in this post of Time and Place.