We know about throwing out law, does the law have anything good about it??

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Paul himself was a law-abiding citizen, but it was the law cultists who falsely accused him of breaking the law. He responded by saying that he wasn't a law breaker because he believed everything written in the law and prophets, that both spoke of the coming Christ and his new way of faith that would supersede the old way of following letters of law.
When you call the Pharisees law cultists, you are not reporting correctly what scripture says Christ objected to in them. Christ did not object to their wanting to keep the law, Christ objected to them NOT keeping the law. They said they kept the Sabbath, yet said using that day dedicated to letting God lead not their work led them to not giving needed love to someone hurt, they said they fasted, and used this not as a fast but for their reputation.
 
I plowed through at least 8 books of history of that time, being very careful to research the authors to find out where their learning came from, while I compared it to scripture carefully. I found that the people of that time never even considered that anything in the Old Testament wasn't of God, they would have thought we were sort of kooks saying it was all changed.

the OT not of God.
who says that Redtent.
who.
 
Time and again I'm accused of breaking the law thru Moses by those who said the law thru Moses is no more. I don't get it.

Well I’m not one of them. The Law given through Moses still exist and you are breaking it. And the Law given through Christ also exist and you are breaking that too.

True followers of Christ that keep select tenets of the old national covenant will do exactly the same as those who preceded them and obey the decree that came out of Jerusalem that was confirmed by the Holy Spirit. Acts 15: 22-29. Those who disobey that decree and use portions of the old national contract to terrorize those who are seeking to follow the Law of Christ are spiritual terrorists.
 
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I read slow and type slow. I haven't gotten to all posts as yet. It's like I'm a guest in a big party. I can't possibly please everyone in my limited time at cyberspace.
If only time allows but please do not accuse.
You know what? I'm just as confused as "Bucket" if not more.
Time and again I'm accused of breaking the law thru Moses by those who said the law thru Moses is no more. I don't get it.

I do not accuse you of that... I acusse no one of anything

Christ said to love!

By still not answering her question as to which laws you are saying to follow you acuse yourself

You men of law are evil and have ran children from this site
i pray Christ forgives you and 2TheWaters.

You are confused as to why people acuse you!
she asks which laws you say to keep

If to you that's the same okay I am sorry
may God bless you and farewell,
lexi
 
I am not sure what the arguement is about here. I don't have a lot of time for the 'net either.

Circumcision that was physical for the hebrew children is the sign of believing God's Covenant. It has to do with what is "reproduced" from the action. Here it is the physical act of "cutting off flesh".

Spiritually it is the same but the flesh is our human nature with it's frailites, both physical and moral, and it's passions. Is cut off from our "being" by the Lord in the new birth or being born from above.

What occurs then is the renewed mind. We don't know what this is all about when first born again, for we are as infants. It it in putting on the mind of Christ, studying the armor as Paul describes, and truth of His Word changes our lifestyle.

Is why we need much patience with new borns. Diaper changes, and feedings round the clock sometimes.

Religion however, has little patience and condemns.
 
I also believe that the scripture about axe being laid to the tree has to do with salvation. What tree? The tree of knowledge of good and evil, that we might eat of the tree of life. Yeshua.
 
I do not accuse you of that... I acusse no one of anything
Well may be I'm just sensitive so please tell me what you meant by saying this:
You like the other law followers, sit back and accuse those who answer a child who only asks simple questions. While you refuse to answer her. I see this as not leading her to Christ.
By still not answering her question as to which laws you are saying to follow you acuse yourself
I was trying to locate Bucket's posts in a sea of posts and time and again I got distracted. Didn't you answer Bucket well enough? Am I responsible to answer all posts not direct at me? You are probably expecting too much from a human being.
You men of law are evil and have ran children from this site
And what is this?
i pray Christ forgives you and 2TheWaters.
For something I didn't do?
You are confused as to why people acuse you!
she asks which laws you say to keep

If to you that's the same okay I am sorry
I simply don't understanding what you are saying here. Bucket knows what to believe. To my understanding, it's just what law the two sides are arguing about that he/she's confused. To my understanding the two sides have not figured out and thus the zillion posts about the law.
It's unfair to demand an answer at this point.
Emotion won't get you far.
 
After seeing where my last was caught up in sin and what happen to me when i accepted Christ truthfully and faithfully, how dare can you or anyone else tell me to just leave christ and follow a law? after CHRIST gave me LOVE that AUTOMACTICALLY made me follow the commandments no matter what i did, accepting God gives us spiritual love that makes us walk in love, why on earth would you think the bible said that Love fulfills the law? here i am with my fellow brothers and sisters trying so hard to make you understand what the grace of God does but you constantly choose non stop to be spiritually blind and ignoring it's frustrating really... it's like look at a person walking into a pit and telling them a pit is there but they just choose to continously ignore you but still stepping closer to the pit, what your doing now is a form of Godliness.. some of you clearly don't have christ ( sorry for being straight forward ) because honestly if you knew christ you would know the power he brings with salvation to transform anyone's life, honestly all me or anyone can do is continue to share you the truth that we experienced in hopes that one day you would let down that solid barricade wall you have up and actually let someone in and have a decent evenly conversation about this. [h=3]2 Timothy 3:5[/h]King James Version (KJV)

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


please... stop letting this have a name over you, and listen for once of what we are actually trying to say, i've never seen any of you ask us any questions like " why is God the end of the law of righteousness to those that believe" your not even interesting in learning where we stand on or why we stand on this point


i use an example of myself continuously to you all so you can atleast maybe understand a little more what God grace does... maybe i need to share it again, i stop going to church for years never read the bible gave up on life basically was going to do some stupid decisions didn't had a clue or understand nothing from the bible i just use to read it when i was small for reading it sake and my parents, after looking at the person i was back then and as you all can see me now? WHAT DO YOU THINK CHANGED ME? was it because i learned about the 10 commandments? what makes me LOVE God and you all so much that i would spend hours a day on this website to talk to you about God, so please for once stop being full of pride and just... let go of your own understand.. for once the human understandings gets us no where



[h=3]Proverbs 3:5[/h]King James Version (KJV)

5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

alot of people need to do this.. if you don't you will never get pass this point, i hope you do please... for your sake and i promise you God will reveal the truth to you, gonna get ready for church, God bless
 
I do not accuse you of that... I acusse no one of anything

Christ said to love!

By still not answering her question as to which laws you are saying to follow you acuse yourself

You men of law are evil and have ran children from this site
i pray Christ forgives you and 2TheWaters.

You are confused as to why people acuse you!
she asks which laws you say to keep

If to you that's the same okay I am sorry
may God bless you and farewell,
lexi

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your hneighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

Leviticus 19:17, "You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother (or your sister) frankly, so you will not share in his (or her) guilt."
 
IF that means dont keep the Feasts/Sabbath Shaul must have been bipolar because he also wrote this:

1Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore, purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new batch, since you are unleavened. For truly Yahshua our Passover was sacrificed for us. Therefore, let us keep the Feast, not with bold leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

Also, people read this passage through their modern eyes not understanding anything about Shauls time and culture, this guarantees a misunderstanding. Please consider this:

Colossians 2:16-23, "16Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, 17which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ; 18let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, 19and not holding the head, from which all the body — through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together — may increase with the increase of God.20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances? 21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle — 22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, 23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh."

I think we have v16 down, I want to focus on 20-23, as to see context. Shaul (Paul) in nearly all his thoughts talks about a topic and then goes on to explain, he uses an advanced style of writing as his (worldly) education was beyond that of the other NT writers.

20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances?

So he is saying if your dead to the world why would you subject yourself to its (the worlds) ordinances. To think he is saying if your dead to the world then why would you subject yourself to Yahweh"s/Yahshua's Commandments would make no sense, but he explains it further.

21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle

the pharisees had a law in which you could not eat meat and cheese togather, or even within 4 houhs of eachother. Now this is not in Yahweh's Law even, Yahweh's Law says dont boil a child in its mothers milk (3 times) (the local pagans had this as a religious practice Yahweh did not want His people to partake in these evil pagan practices) the pharisees using something called "midrashic interpretation" the pharisees looked at it and said well since it says this three times it must meant three different things. SO THEY MADE UP THEIR OWN LAW, that was completely disconnected from Scripture and enforced it as from Yahweh.

22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men,

So here very clearly he states "the commandments of men", now if you read from 16-20 you see he stays on topic, and 20 says basically if your dead to the world why do what the world tells you, so we can see he is still on this topic from v16. In this verse 22, he says "which are all for destruction", how does Sabbath lead to destruction and it would also have to be a "commandment of men" if there is ant commandment that is the farthest thing possible from being a "commandment of men" it is the Sabbath, it was from creation and it shows the AUTHORITY of the Creator, the mark of the Creator. Also tying a "commandment of men" to destruction Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to the commandments of men, you will die; but if, through the Spirit, you put to death; put an end to, the evildoing of mankind, you will live."

23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh.

Pleasing of the pharisees by following the talmud. v22 for context = "after the commands and teachings of men"

you see the pharisees would have a problem if you did things according to Yahweh's instruction and not their ORAL LAW, this is shown in MATT 15, 23, mark 7:7-9, etc

If you kept the Sabbath NOT according to the Talmud but according to the Scriptures the Pharisees would have a problem.

Matt 12:10 & 12, "And, behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. Then they asked
Him, saying; Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath Days?--so that they might accuse Him."
"And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

The "Rabbis" also made their own holidays, Haunnaka and Rosh hashanna and more. when they left babylon they even changed the names of the moons (months), and rosh hashanna even changes the time of the new year, commandment and ordinances of men. the calendar Yahweh instuted is Yahweh's calendar, the one who created it created the heavens and the earth. Our current calendar is the gregorian calendar, which goes back to the bablonian calendar. Yahweh said the days end and begin at sunset, not the "Rabbis."

% made up "feast days" the Pharisees may had, brought you to trial, beat, imprisoned, or even killed you for not honoring. The Talmud tells a story of another "Rabbi" disagreeing and wanting to follow the Scriptures, and the head Pharisees makes then man, on threat of death appear in public on a Scriptual Feast Day in a way that the man cant honor Yahweh, thus commanding him to disobey Yahweh.

Rosh Hashanah (New Year)
Rosh Hashanah occurs on the first and second days of Tishri (the 7th moon or month, Yahweh's year starts in the 1st month). In Hebrew, Rosh Hashanah means, literally, "head of the year" or "first of the year." Rosh Hashanah is commonly known as the Jewish New Year.

How does the year start in the 7th month? According to the Scriptures and Yahweh;s calendar the year starts in the 1st month, Abib.

Chanukkah
On the 25th of Kislev are the days of Chanukkah, which are eight... these were appointed a Festival with Hallel [prayers of praise] and thanksgiving. -Shabbat 21b, Babylonian Talmud

Tu B'Shevat
There are four new years... the first of Shevat is the new year for trees according to the ruling of Beit Shammai; Beit Hillel, however, places it on the fifteenth of that month. -Mishnah Rosh Hashanah 1:1

Purim
Is one of the most joyous and fun holidays on the Jewish calendar. It commemorates a time when the Jewish people living in Persia were saved from extermination.

Tisha B'Av
Five misfortunes befell our fathers ... on the ninth of Av. ...On the ninth of Av it was decreed that our fathers should not enter the [Promised] Land, the Temple was destroyed the first and second time, Bethar was captured and the city [Jerusalem] was ploughed up. -Mishnah Ta'anit 4:6

All Sarah did was mention a scripture and you turned that into a diatribe of how Paul must of been bipolar. Some among us are not ready for the meat of the word.
 
Perhaps Paul was trying to tell us something here.

Colossians 2

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world,why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules:21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

Amen.......
 
All Sarah did was mention a scripture and you turned that into a diatribe of how Paul must of been bipolar. Some among us are not ready for the meat of the word.

You lie on my words, I said "IF that means dont keep the Feasts/Sabbath Shaul must have been bipolar because he also wrote this:"

meaning if the false intrepratiation is correct he was bipolar, thank Yahweh the misrepresentation is not correct and Shaul is clearly not bipolar, many people simply put Shaul in the box their preacher has devised for him...
 
You lie on my words, I said "IF that means dont keep the Feasts/Sabbath Shaul must have been bipolar because he also wrote this:"

meaning if the false intrepratiation is correct he was bipolar, thank Yahweh the misrepresentation is not correct and Shaul is clearly not bipolar, many people simply put Shaul in the box their preacher has devised for him...

So you claim we must keep the Jewish feasts?
 
So you claim we must keep the Jewish feasts?

first off, they are called the Feasts of Yahweh in all books of Scripture except 1.

second, Shaul who you seem to take instruction from over Yahshua says to keep Passover.

third, would you rather celebrate christmas which is directly from bablonian demon worship than celebrate Yahshua the way Yahweh says to, and says to celebrate them forever for all generations?

I myself do honor Yahweh's Featst in the Holy temple He has provided, it is a great joy, an amazing focus on Yahweh and Yahshua, a spiritual and physical training tool, you see each Feast has a lesson to learn and all have been or will be fulfilled by the works of Messiah.

I will gladly celebrate them, while the rest of the world celebrate babylon and says about Yahweh;s Instruction "do we have to?"

ones heart shows through, I enjoy celebrating Yahweh and Yahshua.
 
first off, they are called the Feasts of Yahweh in all books of Scripture except 1.

second, Shaul who you seem to take instruction from over Yahshua says to keep Passover.

third, would you rather celebrate christmas which is directly from bablonian demon worship than celebrate Yahshua the way Yahweh says to, and says to celebrate them forever for all generations?

I myself do honor Yahweh's Featst in the Holy temple He has provided, it is a great joy, an amazing focus on Yahweh and Yahshua, a spiritual and physical training tool, you see each Feast has a lesson to learn and all have been or will be fulfilled by the works of Messiah.

I will gladly celebrate them, while the rest of the world celebrate babylon and says about Yahweh;s Instruction "do we have to?"

ones heart shows through, I enjoy celebrating Yahweh and Yahshua.

OK, I assume you are saying we Christian gentiles must keep the Jewish feasts.

You also claim Paul is teaching things contrary to God, is that right?
 
OK, I assume you are saying we Christian gentiles must keep the Jewish feasts.

You also claim Paul is teaching things contrary to God, is that right?

you wont accept what I say, I didnt say believe, I said accept, you ignore and continue to misrepresent me.. you are a deciever.

Quote ONE single time I said Shaul's teaching is contrary, your understanding might be contrary, but his words are not.

first, if one is of the Messiah THEY ARE NOT A GENTILE THEY ARE AN ISRAYLITE.

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

are you a christian gentile or an Israylite?

Also Yahweh;s Laws were never just for a certian race of just blood Israylites or blood Hebrews.

Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Shau's words are very clear, and they support Yahweh's. If you look into the greek it is even more clear that he is saying to keep Yahweh's Feasts, Shaul himself also did in the book of Acts. Eph 2 is about not keep man ordained feasts like those of the pharisees, if you read my post you would see that, or at least see I believed that. (its clear actually, "the elements of the world, ordinances of the world") Things from yahweh are not "of the world"

1Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore, purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new batch, since you are unleavened. For truly Yahshua our Passover was sacrificed for us. Therefore, let us keep the Feast, not with bold leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

please if we are going to continue this lets dwell on understanding Scripture not just saying dishonest misrepresentations.
 
tsk. the sabbath was the Old Covenant sign (not seal, as the SDA say).

the Lord's Supper is the New.

i know whom i have believed.