There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity

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TaylorTG

Guest
yeah, yeah..yeah.....I forgive you.
I need to compliment you, that you did not learn the bias attitude that was so much of a problem when I was growing up. And I am so glad you never heard of Jack Chick, because for decades his false teachings of hatred for Catholics caused a lot of problems. It gives me a LOT of hope for your generation. Keep up the good work of Love for the Brethren.
Thanks!
[HR][/HR]Many thanks for sharing your story!
I have some daydreaming troubles during mass and even when I'm praying the rosary. I notice that these daydreams always occur when I'm in worship. I also daydream while not in worship as well, but the particular daydreams I think of when in church are...different. I suspect Satan's influence. It becomes hard to repel him without divine intervention.

My own mother shares similar prejudices toward...umm...er..I won't mention the group.
Thanks for warning me about Jack CHick beforehand. When he says that we have to add to grace, does he mean that we have to do good works?
So, you don't believe that the catholic church is associated with the anti-Christ?
My church choir sometimes sang 'They will know we are Christians by our love'. I like that song as well! :)
The bible is a fantastic, but not the only way for us to get in touch with the divine.
Thanks for informing me about: Revelation 3:14-22 (NIV)
We can never get enough of God,
for his power, help, love, understanding, justice, etc.. are unlimited.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,984
4,604
113
yeah, yeah..yeah.....I forgive you.

Thanks!
[HR][/HR]Many thanks for sharing your story!
I have some daydreaming troubles during mass and even when I'm praying the rosary. I notice that these daydreams always occur when I'm in worship. I also daydream while not in worship as well, but the particular daydreams I think of when in church are...different. I suspect Satan's influence. It becomes hard to repel him without divine intervention.

My own mother shares similar prejudices toward...umm...er..I won't mention the group.
Thanks for warning me about Jack CHick beforehand. When he says that we have to add to grace, does he mean that we have to do good works?
So, you don't believe that the catholic church is associated with the anti-Christ?
My church choir sometimes sang 'They will know we are Christians by our love'. I like that song as well! :)
The bible is a fantastic, but not the only way for us to get in touch with the divine.
Thanks for informing me about: Revelation 3:14-22 (NIV)
We can never get enough of God,
for his power, help, love, understanding, justice, etc.. are unlimited.
I am so glad God has granted you the gift of Faith, and a hunger for understanding His Word. I know exactly what you meant about the Devil tempting us Daydream during Worship, especially the memorized part. To be honest with you, when I very young, I knew exactly how many ceiling tiles there were in the Church, because I counted them several times during sermons. And I had the Order of Service so memorized, I could daydream about any and NOT miss a response in Order of Service. Then the unexpected HAPPENED, they changed to a new Order of Service. I was furious, and complained that it just didn't sound right. You see the Order of Service in a Lutheran Service is printed in the front of the Hymnal, and we got brand new Hymnals with a totally different Order of Service. After complaining for a long time, I finally figured out that the real reason I was mad, was NOW I had to actually read the Order of Service each time in order to not miss a response.

That is why I am now not overly fond of an Order of Service that can become that memorized. However, I have a couple of suggestions that should help. Start thinking about how and why the words were written the way they were in the first place, and especially how they can apply to your life personally. As for the sermons, thinking about how they apply to your life, definitely helps defeat the efforts of the Devil when he tries to get us to daydream. I want to share with you a simple but important ministry that the Lord gave me after I gave HIM complete control of my life. Pray for your Priest and Congregation before and throughout the sermon. Pray quietly to yourself something like this, (the words do not have to be exact):

"Dear heavenly Father, please prepare all of our hearts here today to hear your Word being taught. And fill my Priest with your Holy Spirit as he teaches your WORD, so that your Word may be proclaimed pure and true just as YOU gave it through the minds of the Apostles and the Prophets of the Old Testament. Give him the guidance of the Holy Spirit, so that He may explain what your Word means and how it applies to our lives, without his humanness getting in the way. This I ask in the name of Jesus, AMEN." As you continue to listen, when you hear something that makes your heart say Amen; you will know that is the Holy Spirit is answering your prayer, and repeat again, "Father fill him with your Spirit." And thank GOD for His Word after the sermon.

Then one day soon, you will realize, "HEY, I am not daydreaming anymore!"

You probably know this, but just as a reminder, yes there is formal prayer that is pre-written that we recite. But there is also very intimate personal prayer time with Jesus Christ, as if He was your closest friend, which He actually is. That personal intimate prayer time with Jesus can come anytime in any place. I just converse with Jesus in normal sentences, sharing my deepest thoughts and concerns intimately with Him. My best time for that kind of prayer with HIM is first thing in the morning as soon as I wake up while my head is still laying on my pillow. It really works for me, because it is like my spiritual mind is wide awake, while my carnal mind is still too tired to interfere. :)

Yes most of those Chick tracts peddled a false doctrine that "we have to earn part of Salvation", which contradicts what GOD said. Which states that our Salvation came by HIS Grace via His Holy SPIRIT giving us the Gift of GOD, our saving faith; and NONE if it is because of our good works. It is solely because of HIS GRACE and the price JESUS CHRIST paid on the Cross. Ref. Eph. 2:8-10 Granted that Gift of GOD, our saving faith will produce good works if it is REAL; BUT we do not get to pat ourselves on the back and say I earned part of my salvation.

Galatians 2:16 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

Here is a musical Blessing that I think you will thoroughly enjoy. It is a song written by a Jewish Christian song writer and it is called "Yeshua Hamashiach", which means "Jesus the Anointed Messiah":

Yeshua Hamashiach - YouTube
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,984
4,604
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[HR][/HR]Many thanks for sharing your story!
. . .
So, you don't believe that the catholic church is associated with the anti-Christ?
. . .
Thanks for informing me about: Revelation 3:14-22 (NIV)
We can never get enough of God,
for his power, help, love, understanding, justice, etc.. are unlimited.
. . .

NO, I believe the Catholic Church is certainly among the 7 golden lampstands (types of Churches) that Christ HIMSELF recognizes.

That false teaching of claiming the Catholic Church was associated with the False Religion of the Antichrist, was promoted by those Chick tracts, and some of the "hyper-pentecostals" for lack of a better expression. I know what portion of Scripture they misinterpreted, and their misunderstanding was due to lack of understanding of Biblical Symbolism used in Revelation, Daniel, and other books of the Bible. Kingdoms in various books of the Bible have been symbolized in the Bible by the terms, "crowns", "heads", "horns", and "mountains"; and the book of Revelation has a lot of that type of symbolism. This following verse is the one they TOTALLY misinterpret and end up FALSELY accusing the Catholic Church of being the False Religion started by the Anti-Christ.

Revelation 17:9 (ASV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Here is the mind that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth:

If you read the entire context you discover that, YES it is talking about the False Religion that is started and controlled by the Antichrist. Not knowing and understanding Biblical Symbolism, they the read that verse and say "AH HAH! It is talking about the Catholic Church, because ROME is the City on Seven Hills." WRONG! It says seven MOUNTAINS, not seven Hills. Mountains are biblical symbolism for KINGDOMS, and Rome is NOT the governing center of Seven Kingdoms or Countries. Stay with mine line of thought, and I will try not to lose you.

Horns are also Biblical Symbolism for KINGDOMS. Here are some verses about the Antichrist and the KINGDOMS he rules over. By the way, I believe the Antichrist will be Dictator possessed by Satan himself, and he will come VERY CLOSE to ruling the ENTIRE world. His Kingdom will be the final World Empire just prior to Christ's Return as KING of Kings. This Antichrist (Dictator) will rule over a 10 Nation Confederacy, but three of those Nations will be torn up by their roots.

Daniel 7:7-8 (NASB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] "After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.

What exactly does it mean for a Country or Kingdom to be TORN UP BY IT'S ROOTS? I have seen it happen my lifetime to one Country. East Germany was torn up by it's roots and it is as if it NEVER EXISTED. They merged with West Germany becoming just Germany again. So it seems VERY logical that three Countries will merge with others to have more Political Votes. So 10 Horns minus 3 Horns leaves us with 7 Kingdoms or Nations, JUST LIKE THE 7 MOUNTAINS of Rev. 17:9. SO BOTH in Daniel and in Revelation, we are talking about Dictator who is ruling over 7 Kingdoms or Countries in it's final form,
NOT ABOUT THE SEVEN HILLS OF ROME.

Now let's look as some other verses in Daniel and see if we can get an idea where those Seven Nations might be. The Bible only mentions in prophetic symbolism, FOUR MAJOR WORLD EMPIRES

You have the EMPIRE known for their GOLD SMITHS,

Followed by the EMPIRE known for their SILVER SMITHS,

Followed by the EMPIRE whose expert metal Smiths worked with BRASS,

Followed by the EMPIRE whose expert metal workers, became famous for their work with IRON.


King Nebuchadnezzar had a dream that terrified him and NONE of his wisemen could tell the King what he dreamed and what it meant. BUT DANIEL, by the power of GOD did exactly that. The Story is in Daniel Chapter 2. In that story we find out that the King dreamed about a huge statue, where the Head was made of GOLD, the Breast and Shoulders were made of SILVER, the Waist was made of BRASS, and the Legs were made of IRON while the Feet and Toes were made of IRON mixed with CLAY. And the King saw a stone cut without human hands come down out heaven smashing the toes and the ENTIRE statue came crashing down.

The Babylonian Empire was know for their expert work with GOLD.
The Medo-Persian Empire was famous for their work with SILVDER.
The Greek Empire under Alexander the Great made their shields and swords out of BRASS.
And the ROMAN EMPIRE ushered in the IRON AGE.

But what is the Iron Mixed with Clay.

Daniel 2:40-44 (ASV)
[SUP]40 [/SUP] And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron, forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things; and as iron that crusheth all these, shall it break in pieces and crush.
[SUP]41 [/SUP] And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, it shall be a divided kingdom; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
[SUP]42 [/SUP] And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
[SUP]43 [/SUP] And whereas thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men; but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron doth not mingle with clay.

[SUP]44 [/SUP] And in the days of those kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed, nor shall the sovereignty thereof be left to another people; but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

NOTICE it does not call the feet and toes made of iron and clay a Fifth Kingdom. It then is a revival of the Fourth Kingdom, but this time it is 10 nation confederacy that will have 3 of the smaller nations eventually merge with other nations, leaving the 7 NATIONS that will eventually be under the Control of a Dictator that we call the Antichrist.

The European Union fits the description of the Revival of the The ROMAN EMPIRE. They have not yet picked a single Ruler to Rule over them yet; but I believe they most certainly will do exactly that some day, perhaps soon. I know they have 28 current members, but when it comes right down to erasing their borders, giving up their sovereignty, and bowing to a Dictator, many will pull out of the European Union fast. Leaving only the 10, of which 3 merge with others. Do I know that for sure? NO, but at this point in time, that seems like the most likely scenario. And where does the European Union meet? NOT IN ROME, they are currently meeting in Brussels, Belgium.

What then is the stone not cut with human hands, coming out of heaven?

Ephesians 2:19-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] So then you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with the saints, and members of God’s household,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus Himself as the cornerstone.

1 Corinthians 10:4 (NKJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.


Revelation 19:11-21 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter." He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great."
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse
, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

The sharp sword coming out of HIS mouth, I am sure is symbolism for HIS WORD. THUS by the power of HIS WORD, HE destroys the empires and kingdoms of the World, and then proceeds to set up HIS KINGDOM here on Earth ruling from the Throne of David in Jerusalem.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have a little add-on info for you. What was Daniel's reward for telling King Nebuchadnezzar's dream and explaining it?

The King rewarded Daniel by putting him is charge of all the wisemen. My guess is Daniel NEVER taught them Astrology, instead Daniel taught the the Prophecies about the Messiah to come, and the wisemen remembered them and passed them on to their descendants, while Israel forgot them. THUS the wisemen came from the East, came to see the newborn King, and brought the traditional homage gifts for a new King: gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
 
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2Thewaters

Guest
Since you asked:
The three nations or crowns torn up by the roots were the heruli the vandals and the ostragoths
Read any real unchanged history Book

they wre the three european nations that did not vot to have constantine be "god" over them, they were christian Bible keeping nations and the Roman religious empire killed every man woman and child in theose three nations and gave the crowns or regions to Rome/

thus fulfilling prophecy
 
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VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,984
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Since you asked:
The three nations or crowns torn up by the roots were the heruli the vandals and the ostragoths
Read any real unchanged history Book

they wre the three european nations that did not vot to have constantine be "god" over them, they were christian Bible keeping nations and the Roman religious empire killed every man woman and child in theose three nations and gave the crowns or regions to Rome/

thus fulfilling prophecy

Sorry but they are on the head of the beast that symbolizes the Antichrist of the end times.

7:7, 8 The fourth beast, powerful and destructive, was different from the others but had some of their bestial characteristics. It is described as dreadful and terrible, exceedingly strong, with huge iron teeth. It speaks of the Roman Empire, which would follow the Grecian Empire, would cease, and then, after a considerable space of time, would be revived. It is in this revived form that it would have ten horns, that is, ten kings, and a little... horn, i.e., the future head of the Revived Roman Empire—the Antichrist.

Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.
 

Apostol2013

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Jan 27, 2013
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Well the order of the three is evident the Father above all the Son the very direct representation of the Father the Son is the Father and The Father is the Son the Same God one but different in distinction but the same in every way the Holy spirit that proceed s fr ROM the Father and is the Same in diety but the three agree and they are one
 
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TaylorTG

Guest
@VCO
You sound similar to a bible scholar!
[HR][/HR]Special thanks to all who contribute to this thread, particularly you, VCO.
 
D

danschance

Guest
Wow....people are still posting to this blasphemous post. I wonder why?
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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0
. . .

NO, I believe the Catholic Church is certainly among the 7 golden lampstands (types of Churches) that Christ HIMSELF recognizes.

That false teaching of claiming the Catholic Church was associated with the False Religion of the Antichrist, was promoted by those Chick tracts, and some of the "hyper-pentecostals" for lack of a better expression. I know what portion of Scripture they misinterpreted, and their misunderstanding was due to lack of understanding of Biblical Symbolism used in Revelation, Daniel, and other books of the Bible. Kingdoms in various books of the Bible have been symbolized in the Bible by the terms, "crowns", "heads", "horns", and "mountains"; and the book of Revelation has a lot of that type of symbolism. This following verse is the one they TOTALLY misinterpret and end up FALSELY accusing the Catholic Church of being the False Religion started by the Anti-Christ.

Revelation 17:9 (ASV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Here is the mind that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth:

If you read the entire context you discover that, YES it is talking about the False Religion that is started and controlled by the Antichrist. Not knowing and understanding Biblical Symbolism, they the read that verse and say "AH HAH! It is talking about the Catholic Church, because ROME is the City on Seven Hills." WRONG! It says seven MOUNTAINS, not seven Hills. Mountains are biblical symbolism for KINGDOMS, and Rome is NOT the governing center of Seven Kingdoms or Countries. Stay with mine line of thought, and I will try not to lose you.

Horns are also Biblical Symbolism for KINGDOMS. Here are some verses about the Antichrist and the KINGDOMS he rules over. By the way, I believe the Antichrist will be Dictator possessed by Satan himself, and he will come VERY CLOSE to ruling the ENTIRE world. His Kingdom will be the final World Empire just prior to Christ's Return as KING of Kings. This Antichrist (Dictator) will rule over a 10 Nation Confederacy, but three of those Nations will be torn up by their roots.
1 Yahchanan (John) 2:18, "Little children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Anti- Messiah will come, even now there are many Anti-Messiahs; by this we know that this is the last hour."

Revelation 13:18, "Here is wisdom: Let him who has understanding count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man. And his number is 666."

Daniyl 8:11-13, "Yes, he magnified himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. And a host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and succeeded. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said to the one that spoke: How long will be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the setting up of The Abomination of Desolation (Lord of Heaven), and the surrender of the sanctuary, and the host to be trampled underfoot?

as high as the Prince of the host that means as high as Yahshua this man calles himself. = Vicarius Filii Del





See the cheribims? he thinks he sitting on the mecry seat, that is the Most High's seat
2 Thessalonians 2:4, "Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called gods or that is worshiped; so that he, as the Almighty, sits in the temple of Yahweh, showing himself that he is the Mighty One"
Revelation 17:4-5, "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication. And upon her head was a name written: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF THE HARLOTS hAND OF THE iABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH."



Revelation 17:9, "And here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits."


Revelation 13:6, "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Yahweh, to blaspheme His Name, and His House, and those who dwell in heaven."

"No 'Yahweh' in songs, prayers at Catholic Masses, Vatican rules"
catholicnews.com

Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; mentally attack to cause to fall away,
the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws"

"The Pope is of great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws... The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth." -Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Ribliotheca, "Papa," art. 2, translated.

“Sunday is our mark or authority...the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.” Catholic Record of London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.
And mountian/hill is word # 3735 = oros

Original Word: ὄρος, ους, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: oros
Phonetic Spelling: (or'-os)
Short Definition: a mountain
Definition: a mountain, hill.
 
T

TaylorTG

Guest
Wow....people are still posting to this blasphemous post. I wonder why?
You believe in the divine Trinity, right? :)<--Since you said this post is blasphemous.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,984
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@VCO
You sound similar to a bible scholar!
[HR][/HR]Special thanks to all who contribute to this thread, particularly you, VCO.
I used to have over 500 cassette tapes by Dr. John MacAurthur, the President of the Master's College and Seminary. I was working the night shift in the Post Office shorting mail at that time. So instead of listening to tunes on my Walkman tape player, I listened to Bible Teaching Sermons by Dr. John MacArthur and a few others. I ended up listening to every tape I owned 4 times before moving to California, where I worked as a City Letter Carrier until I retired after 38 years of service. I think a little of MacAurthur's teaching style rubbed off on me. He has archived all of his Sermons online in the MP3 format so that people can listen to them free online. Grace to You
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,984
4,604
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And mountian/hill is word # 3735 = oros

Original Word: ὄρος, ους, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: oros
Phonetic Spelling: (or'-os)
Short Definition: a mountain
Definition: a mountain, hill.

1 John 2:9 (ASV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] He that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother, is in the darkness even until now.


Quote from the:
Catechism of the Catholic Church

. . .
To believe in God alone

150
- Faith is first of all a personal adherence of man to God. At the same time, and inseparably, it is a free assent to the whole truth that God has revealed. As personal adherence to God and assent to his truth, Christian faith differs from our faith in any human person. It is right and just to entrust oneself wholly to God and to believe absolutely what he says. It would be futile and false to place such faith in a creature.17 (222)

To believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God

151 - For a Christian, believing in God cannot be separated from believing in the One he sent, his “beloved Son,” in whom the Father is “well pleased”; God tells us to listen to him.18 The Lord himself said to his disciples: “Believe in God, believe also in me.”19 We can believe in Jesus Christ because he is himself God, the Word made flesh: “No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.”20 Because he “has seen the Father,” Jesus Christ is the only one who knows him and can reveal him.21 (424)

To believe in the Holy Spirit

152
- One cannot believe in Jesus Christ without sharing in his Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who reveals to men who Jesus is. For “no one can say ‘Jesus is Lord,’ except by the Holy Spirit,”22 who “searches everything, even the depths of God.... No one comprehends the thoughts of God, except the Spirit of God.”23 Only God knows God completely: we believe in the Holy Spirit because he is God. (243, 683, 232)

The Church never ceases to proclaim her faith in one only God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
.

III. The Characteristics of Faith

Faith is a grace

153
- When St. Peter confessed that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, Jesus declared to him that this revelation did not come “from flesh and blood,” but from “my Father who is in heaven.”24 Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him. “Before this faith can be exercised, man must have the grace of God to move and assist him; he must have the interior helps of the Holy Spirit, who moves the heart and converts it to God, who opens the eyes of the mind and ‘makes it easy for all to accept and believe the truth.’”25 (552, 1814, 1996, 2606)
. . .
 
Nov 18, 2013
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When the angel of God spoke to Moses from the burning bush, he did not say "I am a person."

When Jesus said "Before Abraham was born, I am" he did not say "I am a person."

When will Trinitarians realize that it is the ascription of "personhood" to God that is objectionable?

God is not make in our image. Man is made in God's image. Adam was one person, not three.

Consider this. 1 man + 1 woman = 1 family man.

1 man + 1 man = 2 men.

Biblical: 1 God + the Word of God + Holy Spirit = 1 God (or godhead). where God > Christ > Holy Spirit

Strong Trinitarian: 1 God + 1 God + 1 God = 1 super God (with three hypostases). where God = Christ = Holy Spirit.

Pagan: God A + God B = 2 Gods, where God A = God B.

The trinitarian formulation appears much closer to paganism than to the bible.
 
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Tintin

Guest
The Trinity is biblical. Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. And why bother discussing it? You're not going to be willing to believe it anyway.
 
Nov 18, 2013
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The Trinity is biblical. Once again, you don't know what you're talking about. And why bother discussing it? You're not going to be willing to believe it anyway.
There was once a book on philosophy written called "The vanity of dogmatizing,"

However we know the Strong Trinity is not biblical because of the fruits of their proponents. Deism, atheism and persecution.

You need to check out some church history. The first utterly persecuting "Christian code" designed to put Christians to death for what they believed in was formed by Trinitarians (Code of Justinian).
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,984
4,604
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There was once a book on philosophy written called "The vanity of dogmatizing,"

However we know the Strong Trinity is not biblical because of the fruits of their proponents. Deism, atheism and persecution.

You need to check out some church history. The first utterly persecuting "Christian code" designed to put Christians to death for what they believed in was formed by Trinitarians (Code of Justinian).
AND you may want to check out this book "Fox's Book of Martyrs": Fox's Book of Martyrs

And we know the Holy Trinity is TRUTH, because the mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit is in us teaching us that Truth. But you would not understand that because you HAVE to have the Holy Spirit in you causing your human spirit to come to eternal life (born again) to even begin to understand it. Prior to that, you will only think it is all foolishness:

1 Corinthians 2:12-16 (NIV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
 
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sweetchristiangirl

Guest
The Trinity means three yet one. It is very difficult to explain it. No one has ever really been able to explain it properly
 
Nov 18, 2013
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The Trinity means three yet one. It is very difficult to explain it. No one has ever really been able to explain it properly
A major flaw in trinitarian theory is that all three members of the trinity are equal. Everything in the bible demonstrates that they are not equal in any aspect, except in so far as, vis-a-vis mankind, they are deity.

1 Cor 11: "God is the head of Christ."

Trinitarians simply cannot work it out, because it conflicts with their notion of equality.

Then again, who is the Spirit of God sent by?

How is the Spirit equal to Christ equal to the Father? Therein lies to real heresy - not in conceiving the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit as distinct, but in trying to "equalize" them as if they were equivalent to human people or pagan gods. They are spirit, not "persons."
 
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TaylorTG

Guest
@Gjoll
:rolleyes: You are spirituality drunk, sir. ^_^
A major flaw in trinitarian theory is that all three members of the trinity are equal. Everything in the bible demonstrates that they are not equal in any aspect, except in so far as, vis-a-vis mankind, they are deity.
1 Cor 11: "God is the head of Christ."
Trinitarians simply cannot work it out, because it conflicts with their notion of equality.
Then again, who is the Spirit of God sent by?
How is the Spirit equal to Christ equal to the Father? Therein lies to real heresy - not in conceiving the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit as distinct, but in trying to "equalize" them as if they were equivalent to human people or pagan gods. They are spirit, not "persons."
The three persons of the Trinity are equal because they are all made up of the same body, they are all the same God.
Don't take the word 'persons' literally. Of course God is not merely a 'person'; <--that is another term for 'part'. God is made up of three parts.

Why would God be made up of three parts? Hell if I know. I'm not God, I'm not the virgin Mary, I'm certainly not as intelligent as even the lowliest angel, (none of the angels are lowly, in fact. ^_^) but whatever the true implications behind the Trinity is, we do know for a fact that it is real and mentioned in the bible.
[HR][/HR]Enjoy these bible verses, Mr. Comet, son of the false prophet 'Mr. Meteor'.:rolleyes:
Matthew 3:17 A voice from from Heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 28:19 Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy spirit.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.

Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work where unto I have called them.

(2) Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.

Peace be with you.
 
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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Since you asked:
The three nations or crowns torn up by the roots were the heruli the vandals and the ostragoths
Read any real unchanged history Book

they wre the three european nations that did not vot to have constantine be "god" over them, they were christian Bible keeping nations and the Roman religious empire killed every man woman and child in theose three nations and gave the crowns or regions to Rome/

thus fulfilling prophecy
You are absolutely correct here. After these three came the six resurrections of the Holy Roman Empire with the seventh and last rising before our eyes in Europe today.