So Then What?

[MissCris]

There's been a handful of threads on different kinds of abuse or manipulation within relationships. And I think that's a very good thing...there are plenty of people who need to recognize what's going on in their current relationship, or know what to avoid in a future one, or even just find answers for what the heck happened in a past relationship.

But if person is currently married, and they've realized that these things are happening within their marriage...
Then what? Are they just stuck, because God hates divorce? Can they leave? Can it be fixed?

 

[LightningClap0002]

There is an honest answer to this; the answer I truly believe, but which some people may call too cliche. God can make anything work. If you entered the marriage because you were led their by God, then I completely believe that you should remain unless God makes it physically impossible.

That said, my opinion on manipulation is that it happens. Manipulation is unavoidable. Every person you interact with will impact you, and their actions will manipulate your actions. Spending time around people makes it unavoidable. Spending a lot of time around someone makes the impact even greater. In the end, I truly believe that the best we have any control over is choosing who to allow to have what degree of impact on us. In the end, it's incredibly difficult, if not impossible to judge someone's intent. Personally, I would rather remain eternally as open as I can. To those that I strongly feel God has brought into my life especially.

I would not divorce someone over manipulative or emotionally abusive behavior unless God physically separated us.

 

[1still_waters]

Well most of these threads are in the Singles forum, so when folks suggest changing/leaving/etc. it's said within that context.

Emotional manipulation doesn't appear to be a valid reason for divorce.

 

[Shouryu]

Maybe pose your query to the Family Forum, Cristen?

 

[MissCris]

Well most of these threads are in the Singles forum, so when folks suggest changing/leaving/etc. it's said within that context.

Emotional manipulation doesn't appear to be a valid reason for divorce.

No, I wouldn't think that would be valid. Crappy, but not a reason to divorce.

 

[iTOREtheSKY]

Interesting question.

I think that if you are married to someone who claims to be a believer that acts & treats their spouse in a manner of any type of abuse,be it physical or mental or a combination of the two,and said abuser refuses to change or seek Godly counsel then all bets are off.

IMO,the spouse who is doing the abusing and is unrepentant or unwilling to change has basically broken their vow to God & to their spouse.

I don't see how God would want someone to remain in that situation.

I do think it can be fixed,God can do anything...but not if people are unwilling to let him.

"God hates divorce" is an easy thing to throw in someone's face to sound super spiritual and is a quick answer that doesn't really solve the issue.

I just in good conscience could never tell someone that they had to stay with an abusive partner because God said "divorce is a sin"...

There's much to consider & I don't see any easy answers. There never is. That's life I suppose.

I know,not much help. I do think we need to support people in these situations though & not judge or manipulate or guilt them into making choices. Pray,listening,and love is all anyone can offer that is helpful to those involved.

Again...my opinion.

 

[MissCris]

Maybe pose your query to the Family Forum, Cristen?

I have now
But I wanted to post it in here originally because this is where my friends be at. And the Family Forum is a very depressing place.

 

[CatHerder]

There's been a handful of threads on different kinds of abuse or manipulation within relationships. And I think that's a very good thing...there are plenty of people who need to recognize what's going on in their current relationship, or know what to avoid in a future one, or even just find answers for what the heck happened in a past relationship.

But if person is currently married, and they've realized that these things are happening within their marriage...
Then what? Are they just stuck, because God hates divorce? Can they leave? Can it be fixed?

I would urge you, or anyone else in this situation to undergo marital counseling with a Christian counselor, who would not encourage divorce. If the other party refuses to go, then go by yourself. You could still gain insight - but don't sugarcoat your own behaviors. You need to be brutally honest about your own behaviors, not just your spouse's so that a professional third party who is not emotionally vested in your relationship can gain insight to what is going on and offer sound advice. I know that money's tight - - many will work on a sliding scale.

If he refuses to go with you, then go anyway. He may see a change in you and decide to attend once you do. Either way, you will be a healthier you.

I sincerely hope and will be praying that this will save your marriage. For me, my ex saw that I was becoming an emotionally healthier, stronger person. She saw this as a threat to her sense of control...I wish I could give you guarantees.

ummm.....(((((huggs))))) and stuff.

 

[GreenNnice]

God wants the two to work things out, because He gave the relationship the grace to become a union of 'one flesh' in the first place, especially with kids, that even more so shows God's increasing of one's faith for continuing in the marriage and deepening the relationship, unless 'the kids' were made because the fun of the marriage needed some new pzazz keep stoking the fires of it. Still, the fact that the kids no longer add the pzazz to the relationship is by no means grounds for divorce.

Matthew 19:6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore ... ... So that they are no more two, but one flesh. What therefore
God has joined together, don't let man tear apart.

=========================---------------========================
Catmanningmusicanfatherherder said things best, seek counseling, and, yes, Christian counseling is best, someone who believes in biblical principles of marriage. Go to counseling for yourself if your spouse won't go, as, God will do a work in you and, prayerfully (you be praying, a lot ) , God will do things to change things of you that your spouse can see can be of them, too. Just comes down to faith in God to change things, His Spirit, which is in YOUR heart, working, at work, greatly, to make mercies new, which come every morning, 'new,' the bible tells us.

 

[GreenNnice]

There is an honest answer to this; the answer I truly believe, but which some people may call too cliche. God can make anything work. If you entered the marriage because you were led their by God, then I completely believe that you should remain unless God makes it physically impossible.

That said, my opinion on manipulation is that it happens. Manipulation is unavoidable. Every person you interact with will impact you, and their actions will manipulate your actions. Spending time around people makes it unavoidable. Spending a lot of time around someone makes the impact even greater. In the end, I truly believe that the best we have any control over is choosing who to allow to have what degree of impact on us. In the end, it's incredibly difficult, if not impossible to judge someone's intent. Personally, I would rather remain eternally as open as I can. To those that I strongly feel God has brought into my life especially.

I would not divorce someone over manipulative or emotionally abusive behavior unless God physically separated us.

Well most of these threads are in the Singles forum, so when folks suggest changing/leaving/etc. it's said within that context.

Emotional manipulation doesn't appear to be a valid reason for divorce.

lightnin' said things well,too, although I'd say this--and like stilledwater said of 'emotional manipulation' not a reason either--, there is nothing that God will physically tear apart, the twos' chosen (selfish) actions will do that work, which Satan works in doing. This is not saying that God does not work out for good all things, but, yes, I want to walk softly here, be led by Him, sometimes things (like divorce) happen, even to Christians, even as much as non-Cs according to stats. But, yeah, no, abuse is wrong ,and if spouse is doing things of that evil nature then SEEK God for His answers. He will never lead you wrong, in fact, what you think can't be done CAN be undone, in a good way, for all things are (physically and otherwise) possible with God.

 

[BananaPie]

Then what? Then we always have Jesus to run to!

Are they just stuck, because God hates divorce? No, they are not stuck because God is always the best solution. A holy marriage is not about "me;" it's all about God in which the spouses exercise the Gospel within their home.

Can they leave? Yes, of course. The US Family Court has allocation for a "Legal Separation," which accommodates spouses to legally live apart from each other, yet both are NOT legally available to remarry.

A "Legal Divorce" is for the spouse who seeks protection from a biblically abrasive, heinous spouse.

Can it be fixed? Yes, of course. The Holy Spirit of God always fixes everything! The real question is, "Are both spouses willing to have God fix each of them from the inside?"

God has called us to peace and to forgiveness, but never to anger.

The repented sinner is to live in great expectation that his/her sins have been forgiven, and is now counted among the redeemed from God's perspective. We saints are to consistently be salt & light & sheep among vinegar and darkness and wolves!

If a spouse falls from grace, or goes astray, it's the duty of the other spouse to forgive the grievance by restoring the life of the Gospel back into the marriage. The Lord Jesus left the 99 sheep with the goal of bringing the 1 sheep that was lost back into the fold.

In a holy marriage the spouses are to continually practice the Gospel with each other; that is, both spouses are to be Good News to each other.

If one spouse no longer wants to love the other spouse, then bring that spouse to the elders of your church to sort things out. If the spouse continues in rebellion against God and against the other spouse, then let that spouse be anathema, while the other godly spouse is free to seek a legal separation to live in peace somewhere else.

May this hymn written by Fanny Cosby in 1889 be a blessing to the reader.

O, the children of the Lord have the right to shout and sing
For the Way is growing bright and our souls are on the wing
We are going by and by to the palace of the King!
Glory to God, Hallelujah!

 

[Fenner]

There's been a handful of threads on different kinds of abuse or manipulation within relationships. And I think that's a very good thing...there are plenty of people who need to recognize what's going on in their current relationship, or know what to avoid in a future one, or even just find answers for what the heck happened in a past relationship.

But if person is currently married, and they've realized that these things are happening within their marriage...
Then what? Are they just stuck, because God hates divorce? Can they leave? Can it be fixed?

My friend who is newly separated told me about physical abuse that she was going through. Wasn't everyday, not every month, but more than once and even after counseling it didn't stop. I didn't know he was doing this to her. I was mortified when I heard. I felt so bad I didn't know, but she said she hid it from everyone.


I am glad they are separated. She told me that she was no angel. I don't care, you don't hit people and he would do this when he was drunk. He has a drinking problem but is in denial. I pray he get's the help he needs.

Anyhow if there is abuse and you've tried your best, get out. I don't have perfect words of advice. I wish I did. I know it's not always easy to just get out.

I'll say it this way, I wouldn't blame you if you did and God will forgive you. I am sure God doesn't like abuse either.

 

[zaoman32]

I have now
But I wanted to post it in here originally because this is where my friends be at. And the Family Forum is a very depressing place.

Indeed! Though I did answer your question there...

I also really liked iTORE's response. It's easy to think of verbal abuse and manipulation as being no big deal, the whole "sticks and stones..." It's a lie. Verbal abuse and manipulation mutilate a persons spirit. I know, I've been there.

 

[maxwel]

The bible says that if you are married to an unbeliever, and they "depart", that you should let them depart.
Only God knows a person's heart, but from man's point of view, we cannot tell the different between an "unbeliever" and some who is just "acting like an unbeliever". As Christians, we have to treat both of these the same.

1Corintians7:15
But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Below is the definitive passage that talks about marriage and adultery, showing that divorce is permissible in the case of adultery.

Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Mat 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mat 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

 

[maxwel]

In cases of various other kinds of sin, it is probably biblical to have a separation, instead of a divorce.

The bible is CONSTANTLY telling us, both in Old Testament and New Testament, to SEPARATE OURSELVES FROM SIN.

In fact, that's even what the word "sanctification" means ... it means to be "set apart" or "separated".

 

[maxwel]

Of course if it is possible to get marriage counseling, if both parties are willing, then biblical marriage counseling is the correct thing to do.

 

[wisebeardman]

Of course if it is possible to get marriage counseling, if both parties are willing, then biblical marriage counseling is the correct thing to do.

from what I have seen in life, it does little good in most cases. Abusers abuse and always will abuse. sure its not 100% but pretty close.

Child molesters usually always re-offend.
Mental Abusers usually always mentally abuse again
Physical Abusers usually always physically abuse someone again.

 

[ServantStrike]

I would urge you, or anyone else in this situation to undergo marital counseling with a Christian counselor, who would not encourage divorce. If the other party refuses to go, then go by yourself. You could still gain insight - but don't sugarcoat your own behaviors. You need to be brutally honest about your own behaviors, not just your spouse's so that a professional third party who is not emotionally vested in your relationship can gain insight to what is going on and offer sound advice. I know that money's tight - - many will work on a sliding scale.

If he refuses to go with you, then go anyway. He may see a change in you and decide to attend once you do. Either way, you will be a healthier you.

I sincerely hope and will be praying that this will save your marriage. For me, my ex saw that I was becoming an emotionally healthier, stronger person. She saw this as a threat to her sense of control...I wish I could give you guarantees.

ummm.....(((((huggs))))) and stuff.

I have now
But I wanted to post it in here originally because this is where my friends be at. And the Family Forum is a very depressing place.

from what I have seen in life, it does little good in most cases. Abusers abuse and always will abuse. sure its not 100% but pretty close.

Child molesters usually always re-offend.
Mental Abusers usually always mentally abuse again
Physical Abusers usually always physically abuse someone again.

I think it depends on whether or not they really want to change. The child molester is wired wrong, the other two may be wired wrong or may act that way because it's how they have learned to cope with life. Those people may be able to learn more productive ways to deal with their problems - if they want to learn.


And MissCris, I'm really out of my element on this one. I've never been in a relationship that was worth salvaging. I would try counseling as others have suggested.

 

[wisebeardman]

I think it depends on whether or not they really want to change. The child molester is wired wrong, the other two may be wired wrong or may act that way because it's how they have learned to cope with life. Those people may be able to learn more productive ways to deal with their problems - if they want to learn.


And MissCris, I'm really out of my element on this one. I've never been in a relationship that was worth salvaging. I would try counseling as others have suggested.

I have never been in a relationship, but I have seen others peoples relationships. and notice patterns. Every abuser I have seen never changes. they abuse and continue to abuse. if the abuse target leaves, they will find a new target to abuse.

every person I have seen that has cheated. has continued to be a cheater.
every person i have seen that has been mentally abusive, has continued to be so.
and so on and so on.

id say less then 5% will actually make a change.

 

[ServantStrike]

I have never been in a relationship, but I have seen others peoples relationships. and notice patterns. Every abuser I have seen never changes. they abuse and continue to abuse. if the abuse target leaves, they will find a new target to abuse.

every person I have seen that has cheated. has continued to be a cheater.
every person i have seen that has been mentally abusive, has continued to be so.
and so on and so on.

id say less then 5% will actually make a change.

I would agree with you were Christ not involved.

I think a redeeming relationship with Christ is the catalyst that offers success. Although if someone is not willing to actually follow Him, you're pretty much stuck...