Woman should not teach or assume authority over men (applies to secular????)

Calmador · Dec 28, 2013

[h=3]1 Timothy 2:11-15[/h][SUP]11 [/SUP]A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For Adam was formed first, then Eve. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Hey, so while this applies to the Church... could it also apply in a secular settings, like work or college? I think we can... Consider our more fundamental beliefs, like not lying or stealing. Do we apply those beliefs, in a general way, in a secular setting? We do.

Also, I think the secular have some awareness...
[h=3]Romans 2:14-15[/h]
[SUP]14 [/SUP](Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. [SUP]15 [/SUP]They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Anyways, any supporting or opposing scripture would be great.

jimmydiggs · Dec 28, 2013

I'm not sure, but I think it generally is.

SpiritofFire · Dec 28, 2013

Woman is a symbol of wisdom. The woman or whore in Revelation is the one whom the kings of the earth has fornicated with. This again represents wisdom that is from below and not above. In other words she doesn't remain silent and rule over mankind and every evil work is produced of this union.

God also states that He has no respect of persons. Believing that God would then have respect of persons in not allowing a female to teach simply because she was born a female is making God to hypocrite. Again "Adam" was all of mankind to God.

Calmador · Dec 28, 2013

What about a mother? Weren't there mothers who had authority over men in the Bible. The first example that comes to mind is Jacob. Didn't Jacob's mother tell him to leave the tribe so his brother wouldn't be able to murder him?

Also, Genesis, "man shall rule over woman"...?

Calmador · Dec 28, 2013

SpiritofFire said:

Its clearly stated in the scripture that a woman should not teach. I wouldn't think God is a respecter of people because of it. I can see the wisdom in it.

Granted, Adam WAS all mankind. Then he became two. Man and woman are now mankind. And, I think its clear that God has given men authority in the family tree... "husband is the head of wife." So, there is a line to take note of.

Gjolll · Dec 28, 2013

SpiritofFire said:

"No respecter of persons" means God does not prefer men over women when it comes to judgement, but that is a rather different matter to teaching the truth in a public setting (not private), where women have no license from God. The reason for it is because they are too easily deceived and seduced by erroneous doctrine, but also because in the divine order, man is the head of woman, and it brings the Church into disrepute where this occurs.

It's interesting to note that the great apostasy that has occurred in the last 50 years in mainstream churches has been entirely commensurate with women getting teaching and edler roles within the churches. In the UK, nearly all mainstream denominations are in complete disrepute after succumbing to women ministers, and people are now talking about the demise of Christianity into a very small sect in the future, like in Syria.

As to secular work, one doesn't often get the option of who one's manager is, but my own personal experience with women, working in a male dominated profession, is not good.

secularhermit · Dec 28, 2013

Calmador said:

1 Timothy 2:11-15

[SUP]11 [/SUP]A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For Adam was formed first, then Eve. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

Hey, so while this applies to the Church... could it also apply in a secular settings, like work or college? I think we can... Consider our more fundamental beliefs, like not lying or stealing. Do we apply those beliefs, in a general way, in a secular setting? We do.

Also, I think the secular have some awareness...
Romans 2:14-15

[SUP]14 [/SUP](Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. [SUP]15 [/SUP]They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)

Anyways, any supporting or opposing scripture would be great.

Is it only Paul´s?

Scripture HAS to be widely supportted by the O.T. (Just to convince them)

okeyxyz · Dec 28, 2013

Calmador said:

Women not having authority over men is purely a spiritual matter and must have no place in secular settings. A wise man knows to separate the two scenarios.

okeyxyz · Dec 28, 2013

Gjolll said:

"No respecter of persons" means God does not prefer men over women when it comes to judgement, but that is a rather different matter to teaching the truth in a public setting (not private) In church, where women have no license from God. The reason for it is because they are too easily deceived and seduced by erroneous doctrine, but also because in the divine order, man is the head of woman, and it brings the Church into disrepute where this occurs.

Very True to the highlighted. Women are not programmed to make doctrine.

p_rehbein · Dec 28, 2013

.....................Jesus wept............ me too..................

starfield · Dec 28, 2013

Calmador said:

I think the above verse only applies to the church - i.e. no women preachers. Women should be allowed to hold any position in the labour market otherwise that is occupational discrimination. However, if a married woman decides to work outside the home she should ensure that it does not conflict with home-keeping; for instance if the work is so demanding that she has little time for her family and maternal duties, then it's time to call it quits or find a better one.

cookie39 · Dec 28, 2013

first of all when you read the Word of God you must read it as it is written.... using every word and punctuation. if you do not know how to use these you must learn... for many people only read what they heard and not what the bible actually say. and also all bible translations do not say the same thing one word can be changed and it will change the whole meaning of what God has said...... now that being said, lets look at what the bible really say.

1 Tim 2.....KJV..... 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. [ THIS IS IN CHURCH:NOT THE HOME] use the period... it ends this thought and it is also a repeat of
1 Cor 14...34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. <<<< please read what they were doing when the """"spoke""" in church<<<< this why he said they are to ""LEARN"" in silence. they were asking questions and talking to others.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. {TIS IS IN THE HOME}}} it is speaking of one man and that is HER HUSBAND.... the authority of the man that is in the home is higher than that of the woman. and she is not to asurp her authority over his, neither try to teach over what he has taught his children or those in the household. God has commanded the woman to never submit to any other man than her OWN HUSBAND. I have seen in other version they have changed the word "the man" to "A man" meaning all men... but it depends on what version you use, because kjv makes it one man as God has said the woman should submit to: her own husband.

So the bible never said that a woman should not teach a man.... but not over the man, her husband... and even when they fell in the Garden, God said to the woman that her HUSBAND will have the rule over her... not rule her but higher than her's.

if you take the time and read the bible you will see that God has put many women in a place of authority and had to rule over men.... and teach men even Timothy was taught by his mother and grandmother. all the prophetess in the bible had to teach what God had them to speak, Deborah and Abrham's wife, Jacobs mother who taught him how to get his father's blessing.. I could go on and on... but it will be better if you took the time and read it all for your self.... not read a sermon, but the Word of God.

Calmador · Dec 28, 2013

cookie39 said:

first of all when you read the Word of God you must read it as it is written.... using every word and punctuation. if you do not know how to use these you must learn... for many people only read what they heard and not what the bible actually say. and also all bible translations do not say the same thing one word can be changed and it will change the whole meaning of what God has said...... now that being said, lets look at what the bible really say.

1 Tim 2.....KJV..... 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. [ THIS IS IN CHURCH:NOT THE HOME] use the period... it ends this thought and it is also a repeat of
1 Cor 14...34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. <<<< please read what they were doing when the """"spoke""" in church<<<< this why he said they are to ""LEARN"" in silence. they were asking questions and talking to others.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. {TIS IS IN THE HOME}}} it is speaking of one man and that is HER HUSBAND.... the authority of the man that is in the home is higher than that of the woman. and she is not to asurp her authority over his, neither try to teach over what he has taught his children or those in the household. God has commanded the woman to never submit to any other man than her OWN HUSBAND. I have seen in other version they have changed the word "the man" to "A man" meaning all men... but it depends on what version you use, because kjv makes it one man as God has said the woman should submit to: her own husband.

So the bible never said that a woman should not teach a man.... but not over the man, her husband... and even when they fell in the Garden, God said to the woman that her HUSBAND will have the rule over her... not rule her but higher than her's.

if you take the time and read the bible you will see that God has put many women in a place of authority and had to rule over men.... and teach men even Timothy was taught by his mother and grandmother. all the prophetess in the bible had to teach what God had them to speak, Deborah and Abrham's wife, Jacobs mother who taught him how to get his father's blessing.. I could go on and on... but it will be better if you took the time and read it all for your self.... not read a sermon, but the Word of God.

I'll consider what you've said. I've heard of the prophetesses. I've also heard of theories for them that would make them irrelevant. So, I'd have to weigh in other things aswell.

SpiritofFire · Dec 28, 2013

Calmador said:

And yet for most here their moms were their first teacher.

Try telling that to single mothers and again the husband is the body, the wife is wisdom.

Apostol2013 · Dec 29, 2013

What about Galatians 3:28 ? Lets see

mystdancer50 · Dec 29, 2013

Deborah was a judge over Israel, a prophetess for God, and led the Israelite army to victory in war.

Apostol2013 · Dec 29, 2013

mystdancer50 said:

True and deborah was also married

Dan58 · Dec 29, 2013

Prophets in the old testament were not limited to men, there were a few women that were prophetesses, like Aaron's sister Miriam (Exodus 15:20) and Deborah was a judge and a prophetess (Judges 4:4). God said that "your sons and your daughters shall prophesy" (Joel 2:28). In the new testament, Philip had 4 daughters that were prophetesses (Acts 21:9). Paul referred to women laborers in Christ; "Help those women which laboured with me in the gospel" (Philippians 4:3). Paul mentioned several female church leaders who likely functioned as pastors; Priscilla, Phoebe, Chloe, Lydia, Mary, Junia, Nympha, Euodia, Syntyche, Persis, Julia, Lois, Eunice, Tryphena and Tryphosa. Its also clear that several of these women held church services in their homes. So I don't think God discriminates; "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28). Paul said; "For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted" (1 Corinthians 14:31).

mystdancer50 · Dec 29, 2013

Apostol2013 said:

So, it's okay for a woman to lead if she's married, then? Isn't it wonderful how Christians today are so intent to limit God and tell Him who He can and can't use?

Calmador · Dec 29, 2013

SpiritofFire said:

[SUP]12 [/SUP]I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

Over a man... not children.

Also, sure single moms would automatically be head of the household....

Woman should not teach or assume authority over men (applies to secular????)

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