There Are Many Scriptures That Disprove The Trinity
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A
Re: Study up...
No problem
Again, thanks for answering my questions. Okay, so if it is Yahweh who is speaking in Isaiah 45:23, which I agree with you on, then how do you explain this:
Keeping Isaiah 45:23 in mind:
Isaiah 45:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]“I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
Philippians 2:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, [SUP]10 [/SUP]so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,[SUP]11 [/SUP]and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
No problem
Again, thanks for answering my questions. Okay, so if it is Yahweh who is speaking in Isaiah 45:23, which I agree with you on, then how do you explain this:
Keeping Isaiah 45:23 in mind:
Isaiah 45:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]“I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
Philippians 2:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, [SUP]10 [/SUP]so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,[SUP]11 [/SUP]and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
K
When I look up that word it can mean many different things.
'elohiym - Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon - King James Version
You are dead set against the trinity aren't you...
'elohiym - Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon - King James Version
You are dead set against the trinity aren't you...
K
Believers are judged differently than the unsaved. You knew that right? The wicked to a continuation of seperation from God (hell) and the believers heaven. But believers are judged on what they did for God after salvation. But not judged in the same way as believers. There are actually different judgments.
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A
I am glad that you are taking the time to find out what it is that we actually believe
You wrote:
"The trinity is basically the idea that God is not just Yahweh, but all three."
Incorrect. Let me rephrase the sentence you wrote so that it is right:
"The trinity is basically the idea that Yahweh is not just the Father, but is all three."
Fundamental to the trinity is the belief that Yahweh is the one and only God. Otherwise, you won't be able to understand what we're saying.
Now, after fixing that first sentence, let's look at the rest of your statement:
The trinity is basically the idea that Yahweh is not just the Father, but is all three. God cannot be God without all three. All three are Separate to some extent, but combine not literally but i guess by title, to form what we call God. Yes? God the father is not God, God the spirit is Not God, and Jesus is not God, but all three together as one in title is God. Yes?
My response:
Not exactly correct yet. The unity isn't by title only; rather it is by being and essence. That's why it is so important to understand that we believe in one God, Yahweh. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not separate entities, somehow outside of Yahweh.
God the Father is Yahweh.
God the Son (Jesus) is Yahweh.
God the Holy Spirit is Yahweh.
The three-in-one is Yahweh.
Yet, at the same time, the Father is not Jesus. The Father is not the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is not the Father. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is not the Father. The Holy Spirit is not Jesus.
The Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are not gods, and they are not Gods. We use the word "Persons," but by the term "person," we do not mean humans or human-like.
The Athanasian Creed explains it better than I can (I'm going to break it up into small paragraphs. Hopefully it will be easier to read that way):
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence.
For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite.
So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords.
The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Essence of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Essence of his Mother, born in the world.
Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood by God. One altogether; not by confusion of Essence; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.
You wrote:
"The trinity is basically the idea that God is not just Yahweh, but all three."
Incorrect. Let me rephrase the sentence you wrote so that it is right:
"The trinity is basically the idea that Yahweh is not just the Father, but is all three."
Fundamental to the trinity is the belief that Yahweh is the one and only God. Otherwise, you won't be able to understand what we're saying.
Now, after fixing that first sentence, let's look at the rest of your statement:
The trinity is basically the idea that Yahweh is not just the Father, but is all three. God cannot be God without all three. All three are Separate to some extent, but combine not literally but i guess by title, to form what we call God. Yes? God the father is not God, God the spirit is Not God, and Jesus is not God, but all three together as one in title is God. Yes?
My response:
Not exactly correct yet. The unity isn't by title only; rather it is by being and essence. That's why it is so important to understand that we believe in one God, Yahweh. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not separate entities, somehow outside of Yahweh.
God the Father is Yahweh.
God the Son (Jesus) is Yahweh.
God the Holy Spirit is Yahweh.
The three-in-one is Yahweh.
Yet, at the same time, the Father is not Jesus. The Father is not the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is not the Father. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is not the Father. The Holy Spirit is not Jesus.
The Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are not gods, and they are not Gods. We use the word "Persons," but by the term "person," we do not mean humans or human-like.
The Athanasian Creed explains it better than I can (I'm going to break it up into small paragraphs. Hopefully it will be easier to read that way):
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons; nor dividing the Essence.
For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost.
The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite.
So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords.
The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Essence of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Essence of his Mother, born in the world.
Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood by God. One altogether; not by confusion of Essence; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of the God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.