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K
god has power to create the good and badness, everything is created by him. god called to war in the "AT" he has never called to war in the new testament. we are commanded to give our lifes if it´s needed. we have to love our enemies.. If we kill people, we are not fulfiling the word of god, god is not sinner. but he created all. good and bad.. devil was created by him
B
matthew 7:7-8
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
[SUP]12[/SUP]Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
luke 6:27-40
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
are we not to live by god's rules alone.
or are we to add to it to justify a means in our everyday lives.
isn't god alone able to protect you. isn't it also god's desire to do so.
when did our lord jesus christ ever do the things being discussed here.
he never did and he turned the other cheek.
did not god himself protect his son when evil or harm was always coming at him.
if we are to be that very same image of our lord jesus christ then how is that fulfilled if we do that which god has commanded us not to do.
ephesians 5:6-7
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
[SUP]7[/SUP]Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
plain and simple... direct from god himself.
god bless
[SUP]11 [/SUP]If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
[SUP]12[/SUP]Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
luke 6:27-40
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
are we not to live by god's rules alone.
or are we to add to it to justify a means in our everyday lives.
isn't god alone able to protect you. isn't it also god's desire to do so.
when did our lord jesus christ ever do the things being discussed here.
he never did and he turned the other cheek.
did not god himself protect his son when evil or harm was always coming at him.
if we are to be that very same image of our lord jesus christ then how is that fulfilled if we do that which god has commanded us not to do.
ephesians 5:6-7
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
[SUP]7[/SUP]Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
plain and simple... direct from god himself.
god bless
T
[TABLE="class: maintext"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top"]Hebrew
[/TD]
[TD="class: top"]English
[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%"]Morph
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3808 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]lō
[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]לֹ֥֖א
[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not
[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]7523 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]trə-ṣāḥ.
[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]תִּֿרְצָֽ֖ח׃
[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]do murder
[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Verb
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]s
[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]ס
[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-
[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Hebrew Texts
[TR]
[TD="class: top"]Hebrew
[/TD]
[TD="class: top"]English
[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%"]Morph
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3808 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]lō
[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]לֹ֥֖א
[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]not
[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Adv
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]7523 [e]
[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]trə-ṣāḥ.
[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]תִּֿרְצָֽ֖ח׃
[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]do murder
[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"]Verb
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: strongsnt"][/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]s
[/TD]
[TD="class: hebrew2"]ס
[/TD]
[TD="class: eng"]-
[/TD]
[TD="class: pos"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Hebrew Texts
שמות 20:13 Hebrew OT: Westminster Leningrad Codex
לֹ֥֖א תִּֿרְצָֽ֖ח׃ ס שמות 20:13 Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants Only)
לא תרצח׃ ס
לֹ֥֖א תִּֿרְצָֽ֖ח׃ ס שמות 20:13 Hebrew OT: WLC (Consonants Only)
לא תרצח׃ ס
L
This is a hard topic that requires more than verses out of context. It requires study. Charles Spurgeon summed his view up this way: " I always rejoice to find a soldier a Christian, but I always mourn to find a Christian a soldier,... The followers of Christ in these days seem to me to have forgotten a great part of Christianity." http://spurgeonwarquotes.wordpress.com/And
Read Ro. 13 in context
Romans “13″ In Context
Read Ro. 13 in context
Romans “13″ In Context
Last edited by a moderator:
E
I realize that there is the argument that I have heard from a lot of folks- How can a country of mostly Christians be self-sustaining if Christians do not go to war/join the military?
However, I want you to take the time to actually examine that argument. It doesn't seem biblical. Perhaps in an Old Testament sense but not in the New. The New Testament concept of faith is not very well self-sustaining. It mostly amounts to relying on God. Christianity should have (by no worldly means) been perpetuated considering the many martyrdoms, imprisonments, and such.
Even take into consideration evangelism. A lot of folks want to take things into their own hands in order to increase the numbers of converts...but we can't...that's God's job. Our only job is to preach the word, plant the seed, and water. It is God who gives the increase.
If we start relying on ourselves so much we are only a step away from saying: "Martyrdom is for cowards." two steps away from saying: "We need to defend the Christian faith with the sword. Heretics will not be permitted to live". And three steps from saying: "God who? Oh you mean me?"
However, I want you to take the time to actually examine that argument. It doesn't seem biblical. Perhaps in an Old Testament sense but not in the New. The New Testament concept of faith is not very well self-sustaining. It mostly amounts to relying on God. Christianity should have (by no worldly means) been perpetuated considering the many martyrdoms, imprisonments, and such.
Even take into consideration evangelism. A lot of folks want to take things into their own hands in order to increase the numbers of converts...but we can't...that's God's job. Our only job is to preach the word, plant the seed, and water. It is God who gives the increase.
If we start relying on ourselves so much we are only a step away from saying: "Martyrdom is for cowards." two steps away from saying: "We need to defend the Christian faith with the sword. Heretics will not be permitted to live". And three steps from saying: "God who? Oh you mean me?"
L
I botched up the link to the article on Romans 13, which is built on Jesus' teaching of non-retaliation.
Romans 13 in Context
Romans 13 in Context
L
A classic resource free online The Early Christian Attitude to War by C. John Cadoux
B
dear brother ecclesiastik.
matthew 26:51-52
[SUP]51 [/SUP]And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
[SUP]52 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
mark 14:47
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
luke 22:49-51
[SUP]49 [/SUP]When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
[SUP]51 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
john 18:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink
it?
if war and killing is from god then our lord jesus christ is defying his father in stating those who pick up the sword shall die by it.
not only that we see in luke 22:49 up above we see that they even asked shall we attack them with our swords.
yet our lord jesus christ stated no by addressing it with a statement of holy truth by saying that those who fight and hurt and kill shall in return die in vain as well.
our lord jesus christ went further by showing this by healing the man whose ear was cut off.
why... because our lord jesus christ didn't approve of the actions of strife and it goes against god.
quote all the old testament that you want for it will never add up to god's true plan.
ask yourself this... in god's holy perfect kingdom... shall there be war?
did god ever plan war in creation? and did the animals themselves war against each other?
no... never... this is god's perfect holy divine plan.
but thanks to the fall we now war and do that which god never planned.
yet didn't our lord jesus christ death return us back to the beginnings?
us being dead to the world and ourselves? and dead to all that is here for this isn't our home.
i don't have anything against the soldiers and i pray dearly for each and everyone... and safe returns... but this is war and not all shall return.
how is this god's plan for us to kill and war?
god bless
matthew 26:51-52
[SUP]51 [/SUP]And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
[SUP]52 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
mark 14:47
[SUP]47 [/SUP]And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.
luke 22:49-51
[SUP]49 [/SUP]When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
[SUP]50 [/SUP]And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
[SUP]51 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
john 18:10-11
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink
it?
if war and killing is from god then our lord jesus christ is defying his father in stating those who pick up the sword shall die by it.
not only that we see in luke 22:49 up above we see that they even asked shall we attack them with our swords.
yet our lord jesus christ stated no by addressing it with a statement of holy truth by saying that those who fight and hurt and kill shall in return die in vain as well.
our lord jesus christ went further by showing this by healing the man whose ear was cut off.
why... because our lord jesus christ didn't approve of the actions of strife and it goes against god.
quote all the old testament that you want for it will never add up to god's true plan.
ask yourself this... in god's holy perfect kingdom... shall there be war?
did god ever plan war in creation? and did the animals themselves war against each other?
no... never... this is god's perfect holy divine plan.
but thanks to the fall we now war and do that which god never planned.
yet didn't our lord jesus christ death return us back to the beginnings?
us being dead to the world and ourselves? and dead to all that is here for this isn't our home.
i don't have anything against the soldiers and i pray dearly for each and everyone... and safe returns... but this is war and not all shall return.
how is this god's plan for us to kill and war?
god bless
T
I disagree with the military because of the fact that they kill.
I understand that they are fighting for us but the bible doesn't have an exception clause to thou shall no kill.
God uses armies yes, but there is a difference between america doing in and Israel doing it (that is old Israel). They were the kingdom of God, and God cannot sin because whatever God does is righteous. If God then kills someone, or tells an army to, it is not sin. Our armies don't go to God to learn who to kill they just go.
I understand that they are fighting for us but the bible doesn't have an exception clause to thou shall no kill.
God uses armies yes, but there is a difference between america doing in and Israel doing it (that is old Israel). They were the kingdom of God, and God cannot sin because whatever God does is righteous. If God then kills someone, or tells an army to, it is not sin. Our armies don't go to God to learn who to kill they just go.