Abuse and the Chruch

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Misty77 said:
How exactly would I premeditate my exhusband's breaking into my own house? =P
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This doesn't help my argument, but it came to mind with discussion. =)
[video=youtube;yHGPmbu3QNk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHGPmbu3QNk[/video]
 
tripsin said:
Yes, it does. "Kill" is a mistranslation of the Hebrew.
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The definition of the word in hebrew according to my concordance is "to dash into peices" "to kill" "to murder"

Either way you are using the nation's definition of murder not God's.
 
Misty77 said:
Read the Old Testament. God actually commanded the genocide of several nations. Also, Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: 2 a time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
3 a time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
6 a time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
7 a time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
8 a time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.


Not quite as Kumbaya as you thought, huh?
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Theres a difference God said for it to happen therefore it is righteous for God commanded it.

Did God command you to kill your ex? (in the example)
 
tucksma said:
The definition of the word in hebrew according to my concordance is "to dash into peices" "to kill" "to murder"

Either way you are using the nation's definition of murder not God's.
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In that same book, God commands many people to die and sets death as punishment for many crimes. You are looking at this verse with a microscope without seeing how it fits in with the rest of scripture
 
2Thewaters said:
Mat 5:32
But
I (Jesus christ God almighty)
say unto you,
That whosoever shall
DIVORCE
his wife,
saving for the cause of fornication,
causeth her to commit adultery:

and whosoever shall marry her

that is divorced

committeth adultery.

I tell you the devil is so sneaky, coming up with these tear jerker reasons to sin against God.

thou shalt not divorce unless the spouse commits adultery and even then
thou shalt never INITIATE THE DIVORCE FOR ANY REASON!
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The issue of divorce is no different than any other law, rule or regulation you can find in scripture. We should make decisions according to the life within not laws. What do I mean by 'the life within?' Each of us has a different degree of spiritual growth in life. What one person can 'follow' another cannot. How each is dealt with is the Lord's business not ours.

Of course the Lord would RATHER there be no divorce. But as someone already said, there are certain circumstances where there is no alternative.

"But did He not make them one, having a remnant of the Spirit? And why one? He seeks godly offspring. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously with the wife of his youth." Excerpt from Malachi 2:13-16.
 
tucksma said:
Theres a difference God said for it to happen therefore it is righteous for God commanded it.

Did God command you to kill your ex? (in the example)
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My mind goes in rabbit trails, so it is hard for me to stay on topic. I did not say that I would kill him, that I will kill him, or that God commanded me to kill him. I was speaking in hyperbole to make a point that a divorce grants me certain freedoms regarding my interaction with my abusive exhusband than when I was married to him.

The point of this thread is how the church has mishandled abuse, so I would thank you to stay on topic now.
 
Misty77 said:
In that same book, God commands many people to die and sets death as punishment for many crimes. You are looking at this verse with a microscope without seeing how it fits in with the rest of scripture
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Key word "God commands"

God doesn't command you to murder the robber in your house.
 
Misty77 said:
My mind goes in rabbit trails, so it is hard for me to stay on topic. I did not say that I would kill him, that I will kill him, or that God commanded me to kill him. I was speaking in hyperbole to make a point that a divorce grants me certain freedoms regarding my interaction with my abusive exhusband than when I was married to him.

The point of this thread is how the church has mishandled abuse, so I would thank you to stay on topic now.
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Yeah it is off topic sorry I just wanted to clear it up! Maybe make a new topic? Or PM? I'm fine with either if you like.
 
tucksma said:
Key word "God commands"

God doesn't command you to murder the robber in your house.
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The topic is the church's mishandling of abuse. We are done discussing an example that clearly flew over your head
 
tucksma said:
Divorce is never a "okay" but it is sometimes necessary because of the hardness of our hearts. When you break a marriage you are breaking an oath to God, and should ALWAYS try to work it out. Sometimes though, in few and rare cases, it is needed because of our sinful nature! It is never "okay" but is needed in a few relatively rare cases.
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It disagree that abuse is a rare thing. Misty is telling you of abuse she experienced. In my family we have a very abusive husband who is also ritualistically Christian and quite wealthy. He never strikes, but enjoys causing pain. A favorite is making a promise that excites everyone and cancelling at the last minute. A typical act was the blistering hot day he took everyone by taxi to an wonderful very expensive concert. Then made them walk home in inappropriate shoes, and wouldn't allow stops for water saying it would be expensive. The wife graduated from college with highest honors, but is kept submissive with scripture.
 
RedTent said:
It disagree that abuse is a rare thing. Misty is telling you of abuse she experienced. In my family we have a very abusive husband who is also ritualistically Christian and quite wealthy. He never strikes, but enjoys causing pain. A favorite is making a promise that excites everyone and cancelling at the last minute. A typical act was the blistering hot day he took everyone by taxi to an wonderful very expensive concert. Then made them walk home in inappropriate shoes, and wouldn't allow stops for water saying it would be expensive. The wife graduated from college with highest honors, but is kept submissive with scripture.
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Or another way of putting it: "but is kept submissive with laws."
 
RedTent said:
It disagree that abuse is a rare thing. Misty is telling you of abuse she experienced. In my family we have a very abusive husband who is also ritualistically Christian and quite wealthy. He never strikes, but enjoys causing pain. A favorite is making a promise that excites everyone and cancelling at the last minute. A typical act was the blistering hot day he took everyone by taxi to an wonderful very expensive concert. Then made them walk home in inappropriate shoes, and wouldn't allow stops for water saying it would be expensive. The wife graduated from college with highest honors, but is kept submissive with scripture.
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Well some abuses I wouldn't say are then needed for divorce, it is very situation though so I can't say what I think is or isn't grant for divorce. Also it'd be my opinion on that one, the point I made holds true in that it is never "ok" to get a divorce but needed from time to time due to the hardness of our hearts. Also I meant relatively rare my bad. Is it rare like finding a diamond laying on the ground? No. But relatively rare I'd think so. Granted I do not know 100% on that one that is my opinion. The points about the topic hold true though
 
RedTent said:
It disagree that abuse is a rare thing. Misty is telling you of abuse she experienced. In my family we have a very abusive husband who is also ritualistically Christian and quite wealthy. He never strikes, but enjoys causing pain. A favorite is making a promise that excites everyone and cancelling at the last minute. A typical act was the blistering hot day he took everyone by taxi to an wonderful very expensive concert. Then made them walk home in inappropriate shoes, and wouldn't allow stops for water saying it would be expensive. The wife graduated from college with highest honors, but is kept submissive with scripture.
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I would like, but it's so sad. Thank you for telling us. We seem to think abuse is rare because no one ever talks about it.
 
Misty77 said:
The topic is the church's mishandling of abuse. We are done discussing an example that clearly flew over your head
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Sounds to me like your church is being enlightened as to how damaging the 'law' can be. Hopefully the Lord's 'flow' will catch on throughout the world; that we have all been taught too much 'sin' and 'law' and not enough of liberty in Christ Jesus.
 
tucksma said:
Actually most of these submissive "laws" are in the NT which isn't about "laws" rather how we should live.
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Child, I admire your boldness and eagerness in following Christ. But learn to be respectful on matters about which you don't know. Marriage, womanhood, and abuse are some of those ideas. You have no frame of reference for them, just a jumble of slogans without context.
 
tucksma said:
Actually most of these submissive "laws" are in the NT which isn't about "laws" rather how we should live.
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But if we make laws out of how we should live, then that is what we have done, made more laws.

Get it?:)
 
Misty77 said:
Child, I admire your boldness and eagerness in following Christ. But learn to be respectful on matters about which you don't know. Marriage, womanhood, and abuse are some of those ideas. You have no frame of reference for them, just a jumble of slogans without context.
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Crazy thing is he wasn't wrong in the quoted comment unless is some underlying assumption is that comment....*shrugs*
 
The op's definition of "abuse" is so far ranging and all encompassing, that every couple I know should get divorced. The Bible is very clear as to when divorce is permissible. Please don't add or subtract from God's word.
 
Before I say anything, I was wondering if this thread was a purely subjective (from a woman's point of view) posting, where we should only see abuse happening from the eyes of a woman, or is this a post to truly reach the heart of the matter of abuse? Also, what is considered abuse? Because in this day and age, we have buzzwords like "bullying" and "hazing" that is most of the time anything but....
 
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