Attack of the Judaizers

[Elin]

Yes, NT grace establishes the law, because

no one can meet the requirements necessary to become righteous under the law (Ro 3:20),
and it curses all who don't (Dt 7:26, Gal 3:10),

so that by the Law all men are justly cursed to damnation.

There is only one righteousness that can meet the requirements of the law,

it is a righteousness from God apart from the Law (Ro 3:21); i.e., the righteousness of Jesus Christ
(Ro 5:19, 21),

a gift from God (Ro 3:21; 5:17), through faith (Ro 3:28), given to meet the requirements of the Law.

Since the requirements of the Law have now been fully met in us (not by us), (Ro 8:4)

we are no longer under/subject to the law (1Co 9:20; Gal 3:25, 4:21, 5:18; Ro 7:6)

but instead are under/subject to the grace of Christ (Ro 3:24, 4:16, 5:21, 6:14-15; Tit 2:11).

So the law is established by Christ's meeting its requirements for us,

so that now through faith we are righteous according to it.

And since our faith in Jesus Christ gives us righteousness (Ro 5:17, 3:21),

the law is no longer necessary for our righteousness and has, therefore, been set aside (Heb 7:18-19)

because it was weak and useless to make us righteous.

Grace has established the law by fulfilling it, making it unnecessary and, therefore, setting it aside
(Heb 7:18-19).

There is almost an entire bible teaching us about law, almost all of them saying it guides us to a wonderful life. Many verses are about the blessings from obedience. If you read this as cancelling out most of the bible, but as a teaching to ignore any law, then you have to redo the bible. It could be, don't you think, that instead the meaning of this verse should be examined closely.

And that is precisely what has been done, and precisely what close examination shows.

 

[RedTent]

It is God, not Paul, who in fulfilling his promise of Ps 110:4 to make Jesus a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek, .

Paul, Isaiah, Daniel all were reporting what God told them. They were messengers. Messengers have no power, God does. Why are you repeating this for us?

 

[danschance]

According to your made up/mis-intrepreted views, Paul and Yahshua were "judaizers."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law
Definition: usage, custom, law; in NT: of law in general, plur: of divine laws; of a force or influence impelling to action; of the Mosaic law; meton: of the books which contain the law, the Pentateuch, the Old Testament scriptures in general.

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your hneighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Yahchanan 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Yahchanan 8:31, "...If you continue in My doctrine, then you are truly My disciples."

Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"

Mattithyah 5:20-30, ""For I say to you: Unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will certainly not enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment; But I say to you: Whoever is angry with his brother will be in danger of the judgment! Again, anyone who says; Raca! insulting your brother, will be in danger of the Sanhedrin, but whoever says: Nabel! desiring them to fall away, will be in danger of the fire of Gehenna. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there you remember that your brother has something against you; Leave your gift there before the altar, and go first and be reconciled with your brother; then come and offer your gift. Settle a controversy with your accuser quickly, before he gets you into court; or your adversary may deliver you to the judge, the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be put into prison. Truly I say to you: You will never come out of there until you have paid the last penny. You have heard that it was said by the people of ancient times: You shall not commit adultery; But I say to you: Whoever looks on a woman with lust for her, has already committed ladultery with her in his heart. So if your right eye causes you to offend; sin, gouge it out and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna. Or if your right hand causes you to offend, cut it off and throw it from you! For it is better for you that one of your members perish, than for the whole body to be cast into Gehenna."

Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

I fear you shipwreck many and lead them into the mystery of iniquity, but ones heart chooses if they will forsake the Instructions of the Father.....

Nope, it is your own misunderstanding of scripture. All Christians are under the law of Christ, not the law of Moses. The three passages below very clearly state we are not under the Mosaic law.

For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. Rom 10:4

23But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor (law). Gal 3:23-25

by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, Eph. 2:15

These verses clearly state we are not under the OT laws but does that mean we are not under any law? NO! We are still under the law of Christ and Christ's commandments. The verses below are a summary of NT law of Christ.

Bear one another's burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ. Gal. 6:2

37And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38This is the great and first commandment. 39And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself Matt 22:37-39

The laws and commandments of Christ are valid and we are to obey them. This causes confusion for the Judaizers when they see law or commandment in the NT they assume it is referring to the Mosaic laws. Then they falsely conclude, "Yes, obey the sabbath. Yes, cut your foreskin. Yes, eat kosher foods, etc. Some how you must view scripture so it all harmonizes. Not just a few verses that harmonize with your world view.

 

[RedTent]

And that is precisely what has been done, and precisely what close examination shows.

Then you are insisting that much of the bible must be eliminated. The very thought is overwhelming. You would have the entire world redone, what a horror if you were right!

 

[Elin]

Nope, that is not the definition.

Here,

Judaizers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia is without authority.

In your case, by your handle/name I assume that you are a women. Paul states emphatically that you are not to instruct me.

If you want to talk about religion, you need to remain quite in church

I am not in church.

and not talk about religion until you get home, with your head covered or your hair shaved off and then you can ask your husband inside your house.

They speech doth betray thee, oh exalted one in the midst of rock. . .

Thou art a mocker and completely ignorant of the holy word of God.

 

[Dwark]

Wikipedia is without authority.


I am not in church.


They speech doth betray thee, oh exalted one in the midst of rock. . .

Thou art a mocker and completely ignorant of the holy word of God.

LOL. It would be helpful is you added some content to your, eh, rebuttal.

If you are going to say that you listen to the instruction of Paul because he speaks for God, you are not going to be able to address any male here on religious topics in a contrasting form. This is the bible forum and Paul says that women are not to instruct males. Do you cover your head in church and remain quiet until you get home as Paul instructs? You can answer the question to my instruction of the bible, but you cannot question it.

 

[Elin]

You are the ones who say Paul
wanted us to discredit what God said when he spoke against the law

It is God, not Paul, who in fulfilling his promise of Ps 110:4 to make Jesus a priest forever in the order of Melchizedek,

1) changed the priesthood from the order of Aaron to the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:11),

2) and in so doing changed the law which was based on the Aaronic priesthood for its administration (Heb 7:11-12),

3) setting it aside because, due to our unregenerate spirits, it was weak and useless to make us righteous (Heb 7:18-19),

4) and, thereby, making obsolete the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant which was based on the law (Heb 8:13),

5) replacing it with the New Covenant in the blood of Christ (Lk 22:20),

6) and replacing the Mosaic law with the law of Christ (1Co 9:20-21; Gal 6:2),
which is the law of love (Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6; Jas 2:8; Ro 13:8-9),

7) which law of love fulfills (accomplishes) the whole law (Ro 13:10).

Don't blame changing the law on Paul, it was God who did it to fulfill his promise of Ps 110:4.

Why are you repeating this for us?

Paul, Isaiah, Daniel all were reporting what God told them. They were messengers.
Messengers have no power, God does.

Relevance?

 

[Brother_Don]

some day we will all stand before God, i don't think God will be telling the people that kept His commandments the best they could will be told by God, you don't belong here, you wanted to be an obedient child, shame on you. Doesn't even seem logical, but we will see.

 

[Historicist]

Recently I have noticed a greater influence of modern day Judaizers here at CC. A Modern Judaizer is that believes another gospel. They believe and post another gospel of Christ plus a portion of mosaic law. Paul wrote the book of Galatians to counter Judaizers of his day.

Paul wrote:
The false gospel of the Judaizers never leads one to salvation. They teach a contradiction of grace plus law. The Galation Judaizers taught that one must follow Christ and be circumcised. Today the modern Judaizers teach "Christ plus sabbath observance" or "Christ plus Kosher foods", etc. What they do not realize is that any gospel message of Christ plus anything is a false Gospel. A little leaven leavens the whole dough.

This is why Paul wrote:
This false gospel severs a person from salvation. They are not fit for the kingdom and those who follow them are at risk of being cut off from Christ.

I never wish to get into a debate over denominational theology because some things do not cause a loss of salvation. On the other hand, I feel compelled to warn Judaizers in hopes they turn from the false gospel to the true gospel which saves.

danschance, you need to be reminded that Jesus and the New Testament writers did not eat swine's flesh and other unclean things. Neither did they reduce the Ten Commandments to nine by abrogating the Fourth. Only in recent generations have professing Christians had such disrespect for the Fourth Commandment. D.L. Moody and other evangelical greats respected the Fourth Commandment. Read his book D.L. Moody on the Ten Commandments, you will not find your anti-nomian attitude in it. It never ceases to amaze me how today's evangelicals claim they want to walk as Jesus walked but have so little respect for the Law of the Lord that which Jesus used for his moral compass. They like to quote Galations, as though this is addressing the moral law. It is not. "Law," in the context of Galations is describing the Old Covenant ceremonial law (circumcision, ect), not that which defines sin. Paul, in Galations, is not telling us that sin is no longer "the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). Your definition of grace implies of something other than unmerited forgiveness, that it includes some moral compass other than the Law of the Lord. Have you not considered as to why Psalm 119, the longest chapter (176 verses) in the Bible is about the Law of the Lord. Over and over, for 176 verses we are told to obey this law. Psalm 1 is on the same, and its teaching on this law is opposite the anti-nomianism of today's evangelicals. Righteousness, through out scripture is defined, in the context of this law. What do you think Jesus was warning about in Matthew 5:17:20? Is it not the anti-nomian mindset He prophesied of in chapter 7 (vv. 21-23)? How can you not know that "iniquity" (Strong's #458, anomia) means lawlessness? As Jesus said, "wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction" (Matt. 7:13). So, before you sit down to that next meal of swine's flesh stop and think, "what would Jesus do"?

 

[RedTent]

Nope, it is your own misunderstanding of scripture. All Christians are under the law of Christ, not the law of Moses. .

Christ stated that all the law of Moses must remain, and anyone who said different was not of the kingdom of God. . Do you not believe Christ, as well as not believing God?

 

[Elin]

Yes, NT grace establishes the law, because

no one can meet the requirements necessary to become righteous under the law (Ro 3:20),
and it curses all who don't (Dt 7:26, Gal 3:10),

so that by the Law all men are justly cursed to damnation.

There is only one righteousness that can meet the requirements of the law,

it is a righteousness from God apart from the Law (Ro 3:21); i.e., the righteousness of Jesus Christ
(Ro 5:19, 21),

a gift from God (Ro 3:21; 5:17), through faith (Ro 3:28), given to meet the requirements of the Law.

Since the requirements of the Law have now been fully met in us (not by us), (Ro 8:4)

we are no longer under/subject to the law (1Co 9:20; Gal 3:25, 4:21, 5:18; Ro 7:6)

but instead are under/subject to the grace of Christ (Ro 3:24, 4:16, 5:21, 6:14-15; Tit 2:11).

So the law is established by Christ's meeting its requirements for us,

so that now through faith we are righteous according to it.

And since our faith in Jesus Christ gives us righteousness (Ro 5:17, 3:21),

the law is no longer necessary for our righteousness and has, therefore, been set aside (Heb 7:18-19)

because it was weak and useless to make us righteous.

Grace has established the law by fulfilling it, making it unnecessary and, therefore, setting it aside
(Heb 7:18-19).

There is almost an entire bible teaching us about law, almost all of them saying it guides us to a wonderful life. Many verses are about the blessings from obedience. If you read this as cancelling out most of the bible, but as a teaching to ignore any law, then you have to redo the bible. It could be, don't you think, that instead
the meaning of this verse should be examined closely.

And that is precisely what has been done, and precisely what close examination shows.

Then you are insisting that much of the bible must be eliminated. The very thought is overwhelming. You would have the entire world redone, what a horror if you were right!

That didn't come from me.

 

[vic1980]

1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Psalms 18:20-21

20The LORD has rewarded me according to my righteousness; According to the cleanness of my hands He has recompensed me.

21For I have kept the ways of the LORD, And have not wickedly departed from my God.…


God bless

 

[vic1980]

I love the what God has given us as a reminder

Psalms 18:21-27


21 For I have kept the ways of the LORD, And have not wickedly departed from my God. 22For all His ordinances were before me, And I did not put away His statutes from me. 23I was also blameless with Him, And I kept myself from my iniquity.…

24Therefore the LORD has recompensed me according to my righteousness,
According to the cleanness of my hands in His eyes.
25With the kind You show Yourself kind;
With the blameless You show Yourself blameless;
26With the pure You show Yourself pure,
And with the crooked You show Yourself astute. 27For You save an afflicted people,
But haughty eyes You abase.

God bless

 

[Elin]

1 Corinthians 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law of God, but under the law of Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Did you forget this?

1 Corinthians 9:20 To those under the law, I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.

I love the NT gospel.

 

[vic1980]

Did you forget this?

1 Corinthians 9:20 To those under the law, I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.

I love the NT gospel.

Miss Elin i did not forget anything, Paul was speaking about the Law the pharasees push on the people, that was not by Faith, thats why they never arrive to meet Christ Jesus. King David understood perfectly hope you do aswell God Bless.

Romans 9:31-32

but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works.

I love the Gospel of Christ because everything is about Him.

 

[LT]

Miss Elin i did not forget anything, Paul was speaking about the Law the pharasees push on the people, that was not by Faith, thats why they never arrive to meet Christ Jesus. King David understood perfectly hope you do aswell God Bless.

Romans 9:31-32

but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works.

I love the Gospel of Christ because everything is about Him.

no, he was definitely speaking about the Law of Moses, which displays our imperfection to us, because it is perfect.
We are no longer bound by it, because we are already made perfect in the sight of God, by the shed blood of Christ. To continue serving the Law is to serve 2 masters.... be careful here, because this is not to go against the Law, but to seek the Law giver instead of the letter.

Don't hate the Law of the Lord, but do not enslave yourself to it either. Do as the Spirit guides you, which is to do good.

Remember that the Spirit of the Law is to seek good, not just abstain from bad. If you are only abstaining from bad, you are like the man who hid his talent in a hole... no productivity.

 

[Elin]

Miss Elin i did not forget anything, Paul was speaking about the Law the pharasees push on the people, that was not by Faith, thats why they never arrive at the Law to meet Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:31-32

but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works.

I love the Gospel of Christ because everything is about Him.

Paul was speaking of Israel and the Mosaic law, not about Pharisees.

In the Greek, Israel did not arrive at the "law of righteousness," (Ro 9:31); i.e., keeping the Mosaic law did not make Israel righteous.

It's about righteousness by law keeping, rather than faith, it's not about the Pharisees.

Paul said he was not under the Mosaic law.

 

[vic1980]

no, he was definitely speaking about the Law of Moses, which displays our imperfection to us, because it is perfect.
We are no longer bound by it, because we are already made perfect in the sight of God, by the shed blood of Christ. To continue serving the Law is to serve 2 masters.... be careful here, because this is not to go against the Law, but to seek the Law giver instead of the letter.

Don't hate the Law of the Lord, but do not enslave yourself to it either. Do as the Spirit guides you, which is to do good.

Remember that the Spirit of the Law is to seek good, not just abstain from bad. If you are only abstaining from bad, you are like the man who hid his talent in a hole... no productivity.

How did King David up hold God statutes , was it by FAITH in Him ?

Yes

God bless

 

[just-me]

Paul was speaking of Israel and the Mosaic law, not about Pharisees.

In the Greek, Israel did not arrive at the "law of righteousness," (Ro 9:31); i.e., keeping the Mosaic law did not make Israel righteous.

It's about righteousness by law keeping, rather than faith, it's not about the Pharisees.

Paul said he was not under the Mosaic law.

I speak to all, not just you Elin. and by the way, you are right when you say that the enmity was abolished between Jews and Gentiles, and I was right saying Jesus abolished the division between God and man cause by the sins of those who have now repented. Both are correct. Just sayin'

Is there a separation of the law and faith if a person is lead by the Spirit of understanding? Instead of showing differences, why not talk about similarities?

See thread [h=2]Is anyone else sick and tired of Competitive Christianity? Post #51[/h]
And again I say this to all on this thread, not just Elin.

 

[vic1980]

Paul was speaking of Israel and the Mosaic law, not about Pharisees.

In the Greek, Israel did not arrive at the "law of righteousness," (Ro 9:31); i.e., keeping the Mosaic law did not make Israel righteous.

It's about righteousness by law keeping, rather than faith, it's not about the Pharisees.

Paul said he was not under the Mosaic law.

Paul was under the law of God.