Attack of the Judaizers

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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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And the verse continues with what a Sabbath rest is:

"for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his."
Yes and how did He do that?

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
Gen 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Amen there is a balance as you say. Sad that people slide to one extreme or the other.
This is it exactly, balance is of God. In Paul's time, the extreme was that Paul was supposed to spend his time teaching "how to" to the gentiles when God had told him to teach what was Christ. Paul had to write Galatians.

If Paul was here to teach us today in a world that says no "how to" is to be allowed, Paul's words would be as strong, but it would be about "just do it". Both would be truths from God.

We need balance.
 
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danschance

Guest
I have never in my lifetime met a Judaizer.
Well, I have met people who preach/teach a Judaizer message. The definition of a Judaizer is a one that believes "Faith in Christ plus observance to any portion of the Mosaic law".

Is that ever right. These name callers seem to not have the capability to understand spiritual concepts. This proves a carnal mind, and that mind set demands a blind eye.
Paul used the term "Judaize" it is "ioudaizein" in greek and is number 2450e in Strong's and is used in the verse below.
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before themall, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? Gal 2:14
So if you want to cast aspersions and cause dissension by labeling the use of the Judaizer as name calling, then that is your choice. It is a term Paul used and is a Christian topic. It is a descriptive label that Paul used. Paul summed it up best in the verse above "why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?".
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Well, I have met people who preach/teach a Judaizer message. The definition of a Judaizer is a one that believes "Faith in Christ plus observance to any portion of the Mosaic law".


Paul used the term "Judaize" it is "ioudaizein" in greek and is number 2450e in Strong's and is used in the verse below.

So if you want to cast aspersions and cause dissension by labeling the use of the Judaizer as name calling, then that is your choice. It is a term Paul used and is a Christian topic. It is a descriptive label that Paul used. Paul summed it up best in the verse above "why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?".
Shaul (Paul) was speaking againt talmudic customs/laws/traditions. If you think he was telling "gentiles" not to do whay Yahweh commanded you are gravely mistaken. You see gentiles WERE ALWAYS ALLOWED AND FOLLOWED YAH THE SAME WAY AS A HEBREW:

Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."

Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

The talmud created the dividing wall of "racisim" Yahweh nor His Law never taught this:

Leviticus 19:34, "The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh."

Yet the Talmud WAS DEEPLY RACIST"

Talmud - Mas. Baba Metzia 114b
For it has been taught: R. Simeon b. Yohai said: The graves of Gentiles do not defile, forit is written, And ye my flock, the flock of my pastures, are men;5 only ye are designated ‘men’

A "Judaizer" is one who promotes Judaism. Judaism IS NOT BASED ON SCRIPTURE AS IT MAIN BOOK, IT IS BASED ON THE TALMUD WHICH COMPLETELY CONTRADICTS SCRIPTURE, this is what Yahshua ripped the Pharisees for over and over.

Here is a sample comparing Scripture with the Pharisees/Rabbis twisted version:

The "rabbis" interpret Scripture by something called Midrashic interpretation, which ignores language and ignores context. They say Scripture is a divne code and only the rabbis have the knowledge to decipher that divine code. Here is an ACTUAL example of Midrashic interpretation used by the rabbis:

Deuteronomy 30:11-13, "For this Law which I command you this day is not hidden from you, nor is it beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask; Who will ascend up into heaven for us, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it? Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask; Who will cross the sea, and bring it to us, so that we may hear it and then do it?"

After Midrashic interpretation is applied, they come out with : "‘It is not in heaven.’4 What did he mean by this? — Said R. Jeremiah: That the Torah had already been given at Mount Sinai; we pay no attention to a Heavenly Voice" (Talmud, Baba Metzia 59b)
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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There are gems of truth within these verse to those who will accept the word of the Father.

Romans 9:6-8, "However, it is not as though Yahweh's plan had failed. For it is not everyone who is a descendant of Israyl who belongs to Israyl. Nor, just because they are his descendants, are they all Abraham's children; but: In Isaac will your seed be called. That is, it is not those who are the children of the flesh who are Yahweh's children; but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's seed."

Psalm 105:6-9, "O seed of Abraham His servant, You children of Yaaqob, His chosen ones! He is Yahweh our Father! His judgments are in all the earth. He has remembered His covenant forever, the Law He commanded for a thousand generations; Which He made; ratified, established, with Abraham, and vowed by His oath to Isaac. He confirmed it; let it stand, to Yaaqob for a Law, and to Israyl for an everlasting covenant."

Galations 3:28,29, "Is there not the Yahdai as well as the Greek; Gentile? Is there not the slave as well as the freeman? Is there not the male and the female? For all of you must be in unity in Yahshua Messiah. And if you are in Messiah, then you are a seed of Abraham, heirs according to the promise."

Psalam 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."
 
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=danschance;1355988]Well, I have met people who preach/teach a Judaizer message. The definition of a Judaizer is a one that believes "Faith in Christ plus observance to any portion of the Mosaic law".
According to the definition you are giving, then you are a Judaizer, for you have a mezuzah.
 
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danschance

Guest
Are you speaking regarding salvation only, or always?
Those who teach gentiles to act like Jews is what a Judaizer is. Most Judaizers won't claim it is a salvation issue. They claim it is an obedience to the commands of God. Unfortunately it can cause one to loose their salvation.

Like Uzzah when he stopped the ark from falling, and was struck dead because he as not authorized by God to touch it.
Yes, in that they think they are doing the correct thing. They think they are pleasing God, but they are losing their salvation.
 

Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
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Those who teach gentiles to act like Jews is what a Judaizer is. Most Judaizers won't claim it is a salvation issue. They claim it is an obedience to the commands of God. Unfortunately it can cause one to loose their salvation.


Yes, in that they think they are doing the correct thing. They think they are pleasing God, but they are losing their salvation.
Isayah 8:20, "To the Law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Mattithyah 15:7-9, "Hypocrites! Well did Isayah prophesy of you, saying: These people draw near to Me with their mouth and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me. But in vain they do worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
 
Oct 31, 2011
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Those who teach gentiles to act like Jews is what a Judaizer is. Most Judaizers won't claim it is a salvation issue. They claim it is an obedience to the commands of God. Unfortunately it can cause one to loose their salvation.
Now you are getting into what is a Jew? Is it only a physical race, like Chinese? Why did God give the OT, and we call it scripture, is it only for a certain race? God says we are all the same, there is no Jew and gentile, slave and free, etc.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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The 2 go hand in hand.
If you mean they are equivalent, that is not so.

Per Mt 22:40, Torah keeping is in the hand of Mt 22:37-39,
but Mt 22:37-39 is not in the hand of Torah keeping.

Therefore, they do not go hand in hand.
True, but there is a benefit physically as well.
Hebrews is not about physical benefit, just as it is not about good health.
 
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danschance

Guest
According to the definition you are giving, then you are a Judaizer, for you have a mezuzah.
I said earlier that if we elect by choice and free will to engage in jewish activities that is OK. However, if we feel compelled to engage in Mosaic law, sabbath, Jewish festivals, etc. because it is law or a command we must keep, then that is wrong. Paul clearly stated in Gal 2:14 "how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?". Here Paul is clearly stating that compelling gentiles to live like Jews is wrong.

Maybe I should remove my mezuza from my door so as not to cause anyone to stumble into thinking it is OK to put new wine into an old wine skin.
 

Elin

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Jan 19, 2013
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Are you saying that we must not develop our understanding by going to the root of where it came from?
I am saying what I said; i.e.,

I don't need the OT to get full understanding of Ro 12-15, or 95% of 1Co & 2Co, or Gal 5-6, or Eph 4-6, or. . .
 
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danschance

Guest
Now you are getting into what is a Jew? Is it only a physical race, like Chinese? Why did God give the OT, and we call it scripture, is it only for a certain race? God says we are all the same, there is no Jew and gentile, slave and free, etc.
That is Paul's definition in Gal 2:14.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Dwark said:
Whoa, that's a whole lot of pot calling the kettle black around here.

Judiazers? Is that another name for heretic, or is more of a subset of heresy?

The OP goes right to Paul as the standard "Christianity". Paul is not God. If following Christ makes you a Christian then what does following Paul make you?

Jesus' gospel, the first that he preached and continued was "Repent, for the kingdom has drawn near." Paul's was not.

Jesus said
"Go, and sin no more." Martin Luther, the father of Protestant said "Go and sin boldly" and you are his children.

Jesus said that not one jot or iota will be gotten rid of gotten rid of, you say Paul said the law is no more. And yet Paul makes all kinds of rules that you do not follow, so what do you call a person who follows Paul's words instead of Christ's words, but only the ones they want to? I don't know.

Paul says you are assured salvation and you will not be judged by works.

Jesus says you will find out your salvation or damnation on judgment day and that you will be judged by all of what you say and do.

So pot, stop ripping on kettle and fix yourself.
Hmm so what you are saying we should ignore a significant part of the New Testament because in your eyes Paul was a heretic. Hmmmmm... Think I will stay with the Bible!
He is saying he does not believe all of the NT, and that is not Christianity.
 
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I am saying what I said; i.e.,

I don't need the OT to get full understanding of Ro 12-15, or 95% of 1Co & 2Co, or Gal 5-6, or Eph 4-6, or. . .
Then you are determining not to mature as a follower of Christ. Christ didn't deny anything His Father told Him, as you are.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
And the verse continues with what a Sabbath rest is:

"for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his."


The believer ceases his efforts to gain salvation by his own works and rests in the finished work of Christ on the cross.

"Let us therefore make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience."

Let us enter salvation-rest by faith, and not follow Israel's example in the desert of disobedience in unbelief (3:7-12, 4:2-3, 10:19-22, 11:1), which exhortation to faith is the whole purpose of Hebrews.
Yes and how did He do that?

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
Gen 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Exo 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Relevance to passage, Heb 4:1-11?
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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Now you are getting into what is a Jew? Is it only a physical race, like Chinese? Why did God give the OT, and we call it scripture, is it only for a certain race? God says we are all the same, there is no Jew and gentile, slave and free, etc.
God says no such thing.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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I don't need the OT to get full understanding of Ro 12-15, or 95% of 1Co & 2Co,
or Gal 5-6, or Eph 4-6, or. . .
Then you are determining not to mature as a follower of Christ.
Christ didn't deny anything His Father told Him, as you are.
You are confusing your opinion with God's, because apostolic NT teaching is not being taken account
by you.
 
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