Catholics are not idolators or pagans- if they are so then so also was Moses!

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are already saved. They already chose God in their earthly life, and so are already destined to enter the Kingdom of God.

Purgatory is a place of purification, not forgiveness. Keep in mind that none can enter Heaven if their souls are stained with even a tiny bit of sin. :o If Purgatory didn't exist, than so many poor souls will be dammed for their small sins.

Purgatory is a perfect example of God's infinite mercy; saying that it is a demonic doctrine is unreasonable.

There is nothing in the bible that endorses a doctrine of purgatory. It is a man made doctrine, like most of the catholic church. You believe in oral tradition, when God said His word is unchanging. We are supposed to believe spoken words, repeated thru centuries, are more accurate than written word that has been painstakingly copied and translated. That is foolishness.

I have a catholic bible, along with a catholic endorsed book of doctrine. If I thought you would listen I would go down the long list of false teachings the catholic religion endorses.
Revelation 22:18,19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: [SUP] [/SUP]And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Proverbs 30:6
[SUP] [/SUP]Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Deuteronomy 12:32
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
 
Notuptome,

Yes Catholics 'pray' to Mary and the saints. But any knowledgable Catholic will tell you worship is only due to God. I find your judging of both Jews and Catholics not in line with the Spirit of God- but that's my opinion. His Opinion is the one that matters!
That prayer to Mary or any saint would be a form of communication to the dead which is forbidden and condemned by God and it is written no one can come to the father except through me Jesus even says further ,I Am the truth the way and the light no one can come to the Father except through me , this was said by Jesus and if you read your bible further you will see the truth , and see the catholic religion for what it is . I am an apostolic christian and read the bible in truth receiving the truth is important
 
If any religion should bring people or attempt to bring people to God where is the problem? If they are sending people to some other so-called god then have a problem, the problem is not the Catholics. We should'nt make judgement on things we don't understand. Understand what they do first before questioning their righteousness if you feel you need to question at all.
Catholics teaches that all religions lead to Christ whether you are buddah or Muslim you will be saved I heard this for my own ears even by billy Graham this is a work of the Antichrist the devils son
 
Just recently thebpope declared that Adam and eve were never real in public! A man that is suppose to lead a church don't believe in God's word , this is sick or funny you vote
 
Good morning everyone! :o
There is no purgatory in the bible. It is appointed once unto man to die then the judgment. There is no second chance. Purgatory is hell and there is no hope for those who are therein.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
I'm not seeing the word "purgatory" or even the concept in my Bible. And yes, I have a copy of a Catholic Bible and I didn't see it there, either.

Sorry if that sounds anti-Catholic, just pointing out a few flaws with Catholic doctrine. Feel free to argue back using Scriptures, please!
Hello! First, we must understand what Purgatory is.

All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire.


The exact word 'Purgatory', just like the word 'Trinity' is not mentioned in the bible, but its existence is implied.
Purgatory is a term for 'place of cleansing fire', and the term 'cleansing fire' is mentioned in several bible verses.

Peter 1:7 But this is so that your faith. which is more precious than the passing splendor of fire-tried gold, may by its genuineness lead to praise, glory, and honor when Jesus Christ appears.

Peter 3:19-20 It was in the spirit also that he went to preach to the spirits in prison. They had disobeyed as long ago as Noah's day, while God patiently waited until the ark was built. At that time, a few persons, eight in all, escaped in the ark through the water.

According to Peter 3:19-2, Christ went to preach to the souls in prison. This 'prison' can't be Heaven nor Hell. Heaven is certainly not a prison, while preaching to the dammed would be fruitless. This hints of a third place in the afterlife which Christ went to, a place where the souls there are capable of receiving salvation.
:cool:

sources:
Arguments Against Purgatory Considered by Kevin Tierney
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Articles/the_bible_teaches_purgatory.pdf


Mary is just a human. How could she hear those millions of rosaries, and even know what the people wanted. Unless you deify Mary, she is unable to do the job you Catholics give her to do - to hear and answer prayer by "persuading" her Son to do it. Why not just pray to Jesus, who is the intercessor?
The reason that Mary is such an issue is because to pray to her is putting her on God's level. That is an idol, and God HATES worship to idols, even if that idol followed him.
We don't worship the virgin Mary, we're honoring her status as the mother of God. You typed in your post with the assumption that the virgin Mary is still a human being, when in fact she is in the second and final stage of her existence. She is now the queen of Heaven and Earth.

We don't pray to the virgin Mary, we ask her to pray for us. Lets examine the 'Hail Mary' prayer.
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen.


Keep in mind that the above prayer is sent down from Heaven by the Lord himself. The angel Gabriel revealed the first part of this prayer while Elizabeth's contribution to the 2nd part of this prayer was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:28 Upon arriving, the angel said to her: "Hail, full of grace, The Lord is with you!"

Luke 1:41-42
When Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the child in her womb leaped, and filled with the Holy Spirit, Elizabeth exclaimed "Blessed are you among woman, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!"
​

This prayer is merely a way to honor the blessed mother. Saying that we worship the virgin Mary via this prayer is absurd, as that would mean God himself worshiped the virgin Mary! :rolleyes:

​

Genesis 3:15
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.

This bible passage refers to 2 things:​

  • Jesus defeating Satan
  • Mary becoming Satan's enemy.
God himself made the virgin Mary one of Satan's worse enemies, as shown by the bible verse quoted above. I don't think a lady tainted with sin would be able to remain as one of Satan's mortal adversaries.​

Sources:
Why Catholics Believe in the Immaculate Conception



Check out these links. These are facebook pages which directly attack the mother of God.
https://www.facebook.com/VirginMaryShouldveAborted
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Virgin-Mary-STILL-Shouldve-Aborted/201911006639181

There are only two sides for us to join. We are either for God or against God; which side are these fb pages on? Think about it, Satan himself knows how powerful the virgin Mary is. Why else would he viciously attack her?



That prayer to Mary or any saint would be a form of communication to the dead which is forbidden and condemned by God.
Understand that communicating with our family in Heaven is not the same as summoning the dead or practicing sorcery! Advising people against contacting our own brothers and sisters in Heaven is just as absurd as saying that the Rosary is paganism!

@Angela and Pennd
:confused: Well, I'm sorry you both had that kind of experience with the Catholic church. I am surprised as I have yet to experience something like that.

Just recently the pope declared that Adam and eve were never real in public!
Evidence.

May the grace of Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all!
 
Yeremyah:7:18, "How the children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, while the women knead dough to make cakes for the Queen of Heaven, and how they pour out drink offerings to the hinder gods so they may provoke Me to anger?"

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I've just joined this site and have seen posts that reflect division and hatred as well as judging of Catholics. We are human and sinners just like everybody. We've made our mistakes, paid for them, still are paying and still may have to. Can any other church or denomination say they are perfect? Doesn't every church have it's own internal rules and regulations that may have not originated perfectly from the Bible but was done in faith? Just as the Church seemingly transgressed during the Reformation (over indulgences) and is impure in God's eyes therefor, aren't all other churches similarly impure in His Holy Eyes?

It upsets me every time I encounter the old argument about statues in Churches and the Second Commandment. I know to the depths of my soul that I worship God Himself and only use the images or statues as aids for my prayer and meditation. So I have a question- if I am a pagan because of the existence of such statues, by the same token I believe that Moses and the Israelites who were the first to receive the Ten Commandments were pagans too- they were worshipping the two kneeling angels atop the Ark of the Covenant! Prove to me that they weren't doing so! They knelt many times before it and venerated the Ark itself-so they must have!

Non Catholics that hound their Catholic CHRISTIAN (Yes we are Christian- read up on the 'Apostle's Creed'- that is what we believe and recite every Sunday in Mass) are sometimes no different to us that legalistic Muslims who say we are pagan (yet bow towards a black cube idol in Mecca which they worship).

Very upset and hurt about such divisions among believers of the King of Kings.

A sinner like all but a believer too!

Xtian7
It doesn't matter if you are Catholic, protestant of worship the flying spaghetti monseter. There is always someone saying something negative about another's doctine. Catholicism isn't the one always on the chopping block. Usually denominations take turns being chastised. Tomorrow you may wake up and log on and see that there are threads saying Baptists are of the devil.
 
...........All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

One scripture, and only one, eliminates a doctrine of purgatory.
Ecclesiastes 11:3; ...........................if the tree fall toward the south, or toward the north, in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be.

We don't worship the virgin Mary, we're honoring her status as the mother of God. ...........She is now the queen of Heaven and Earth.
Firstly, she is not "the mother of God", and nowhere do you find biblical support for calling her " the queen of Heaven and Earth" without distorting scripture.
Secondly, denying you worship her doesn't change the fact that, by definition, you worship her.
/ˈwɜr
thinsp.png
ʃɪpworship noun 1. reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred.

We don't pray to the virgin Mary, we ask her to pray for us.
Did you really say that? You are lying to yourself if you believe that.

Understand that communicating with our family in Heaven is not the same as summoning the dead or practicing sorcery! Advising people against contacting our own brothers and sisters in Heaven is just as absurd as saying that the Rosary is paganism!
When people die they don't go to heaven or hell. That will come after judgement day. If you went directly to your reward/punishment, that would pretty much eliminate any need for a judgement day, wouldn't it?

If you call a pig a duck, that doesn't make it a duck. You can call catholic doctrine anything you want, but that doesn't change reality.
 
Good morning everyone! :o


Hello! First, we must understand what Purgatory is.

All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven.

The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned. The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire.


The exact word 'Purgatory', just like the word 'Trinity' is not mentioned in the bible, but its existence is implied.
Purgatory is a term for 'place of cleansing fire', and the term 'cleansing fire' is mentioned in several bible verses.

Peter 1:7 But this is so that your faith. which is more precious than the passing splendor of fire-tried gold, may by its genuineness lead to praise, glory, and honor when Jesus Christ appears.

Peter 3:19-20 It was in the spirit also that he went to preach to the spirits in prison. They had disobeyed as long ago as Noah's day, while God patiently waited until the ark was built. At that time, a few persons, eight in all, escaped in the ark through the water.

According to Peter 3:19-2, Christ went to preach to the souls in prison. This 'prison' can't be Heaven nor Hell. Heaven is certainly not a prison, while preaching to the dammed would be fruitless. This hints of a third place in the afterlife which Christ went to, a place where the souls there are capable of receiving salvation.
:cool:

sources:
Arguments Against Purgatory Considered by Kevin Tierney
http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/Articles/the_bible_teaches_purgatory.pdf




We don't worship the virgin Mary, we're honoring her status as the mother of God. You typed in your post with the assumption that the virgin Mary is still a human being, when in fact she is in the second and final stage of her existence. She is now the queen of Heaven and Earth.

We don't pray to the virgin Mary, we ask her to pray for us. Lets examine the 'Hail Mary' prayer.
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen.


Keep in mind that the above prayer is sent down from Heaven by the Lord himself. The angel Gabriel revealed the first part of this prayer while Elizabeth's contribution to the 2nd part of this prayer was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Luke 1:28 Upon arriving, the angel said to her: "Hail, full of grace, The Lord is with you!"

Luke 1:41-42
When Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the child in her womb leaped, and filled with the Holy Spirit, Elizabeth exclaimed "Blessed are you among woman, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!"
​

This prayer is merely a way to honor the blessed mother. Saying that we worship the virgin Mary via this prayer is absurd, as that would mean God himself worshiped the virgin Mary! :rolleyes:

​

Genesis 3:15
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel.

This bible passage refers to 2 things:​

  • Jesus defeating Satan
  • Mary becoming Satan's enemy.
God himself made the virgin Mary one of Satan's worse enemies, as shown by the bible verse quoted above. I don't think a lady tainted with sin would be able to remain as one of Satan's mortal adversaries.​

Sources:
Why Catholics Believe in the Immaculate Conception



Check out these links. These are facebook pages which directly attack the mother of God.
https://www.facebook.com/VirginMaryShouldveAborted
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Virgin-Mary-STILL-Shouldve-Aborted/201911006639181

There are only two sides for us to join. We are either for God or against God; which side are these fb pages on? Think about it, Satan himself knows how powerful the virgin Mary is. Why else would he viciously attack her?




Understand that communicating with our family in Heaven is not the same as summoning the dead or practicing sorcery! Advising people against contacting our own brothers and sisters in Heaven is just as absurd as saying that the Rosary is paganism!

@Angela and Pennd
:confused: Well, I'm sorry you both had that kind of experience with the Catholic church. I am surprised as I have yet to experience something like that.


Evidence.

May the grace of Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all!


I can remember a time when I would have tenaciously defended catholicism like you. Please understand that much of catholic doctrine DIRECTLY contradicts the Bible. Although terribly young you seem fairly well-versed in the doctrines. I take it you are familiar with the historical, satanic, practice of indulgences? Can you not see how evil it is to tell people that if they give MONEY to the catholic church that this will lessen their loved ones time in purgatory? You can't understand how utterly offensive this is to God who bought you with the blood of Christ? Are you aware that indulgences are practiced TODAY under the guise of mass cards? Please don't have a knee-jerk defense, but rather consider if what I'm saying has validity.

Read this to get a better understanding for what happens after death:

Rich man and Lazarus in Hades: Luke 16:19-31: Neo-Sadduceeian Knockout Punch!
 
Don't forget the practice of marriage annulment. That's a pretty diabolical one.
 
I will say I pray only to God he is a jealous God him I fear only and defend his Glory and whatsoever he commands I do no matterthe cost . for life is eternal in cChrist but we must not be blind to truth .
 
This is the official catholic view of Mary. CAUTION, to those of us who have faith in Jesus ALONE this is quite disturbing, but I hope it ends debate about how twisted and satanic this cult really is: THEY REALLY BELIEVE MARY IS A CO-REDEEMER FOR US!!

Mary as co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix, Advocatrix
 
moses and israelties worshipped god near the ark of covenant they did not worshipped ark of covenant or angels on it
 
you are free to worship god at any place
even before the idol also you can worship god, but you should not worship idol as god
 
All the thing that were in the tabernacle, consisted of things to redeem man; and so the things were representing the Redeemer.

re·deem (r
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)
tr.v. re·deemed, re·deem·ing, re·deems1. To recover ownership of by paying a specified sum.
2. To pay off (a promissory note, for example).
3. To turn in (coupons, for example) and receive something in exchange.
4. To fulfill (a pledge, for example).
5. To convert into cash: redeem stocks.
6. To set free; rescue or ransom.
7. To save from a state of sinfulness and its consequences. See Synonyms at save[SUP]1[/SUP].
8. To make up for: The low price of the clothes dryer redeems its lack of special features.
9. To restore the honor, worth, or reputation of: You botched the last job but can redeem yourself on this one.



 
A understand you are upset and disappointed!

Just imagine jesus saying: "I'm a Jew, not the way you are, not the way you could be, because I came from God's..."

Your concern, as any human being, is being accountable BEFORE GOD.

That rejection (hidden or not) makes you to be the one you are (same way I am who I am).

Acceptance starts within you (I was once nominatelly Catholic) A thing I regret!

I know and believe there are Catholic people ABOVE the average standards. I know and believe they are working much more than we "the perfect" Christians, but there are many things in Catholism we took time to see (although ALL are sinners) The goal could be far from those who are worst sinners (because I was worst then today).

Those divitions are necesary, to prove and show who WE are.

Additionally, the original "church" was Jewish, not the gentile fashion we modeled our beliefs.
 
I've just joined this site and have seen posts that reflect division and hatred as well as judging of Catholics. We are human and sinners just like everybody. We've made our mistakes, paid for them, still are paying and still may have to. Can any other church or denomination say they are perfect? Doesn't every church have it's own internal rules and regulations that may have not originated perfectly from the Bible but was done in faith? Just as the Church seemingly transgressed during the Reformation (over indulgences) and is impure in God's eyes therefor, aren't all other churches similarly impure in His Holy Eyes?

It upsets me every time I encounter the old argument about statues in Churches and the Second Commandment. I know to the depths of my soul that I worship God Himself and only use the images or statues as aids for my prayer and meditation. So I have a question- if I am a pagan because of the existence of such statues, by the same token I believe that Moses and the Israelites who were the first to receive the Ten Commandments were pagans too- they were worshipping the two kneeling angels atop the Ark of the Covenant! Prove to me that they weren't doing so! They knelt many times before it and venerated the Ark itself-so they must have!

Non Catholics that hound their Catholic CHRISTIAN (Yes we are Christian- read up on the 'Apostle's Creed'- that is what we believe and recite every Sunday in Mass) are sometimes no different to us that legalistic Muslims who say we are pagan (yet bow towards a black cube idol in Mecca which they worship).

Very upset and hurt about such divisions among believers of the King of Kings.

A sinner like all but a believer too!

Xtian7

Just seek

[h=3]Matthew 6[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

6 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: [SUP]4 [/SUP]that thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.