Attack of the Judaizers

[jag1977]

Words don't enter me I enter words.

 

[JesusLives]

Please forgive me for what appears to be an obvious question but my Bible knowledge and understanding is basic though I am trying to improve my life since finding God.

So my question is this......I have not eaten meat for 25 years due to the way the food industry operated, from a health point of view and the mis-treatment of animals, this is way before I turned to God. Now that I know the truth I should start eating meat again to please God?
First time I have read this and I was shocked I must confess.

I only got my first Bible in November 2013 which is KJV...I am guessing a KJV is a KJV and there are no more accurate Bibles in English?
Also I have read Websters Bible is an accurate modern English translation, or am I being mis-lead?
I know to some they may seem like stupid questions but I like would a genuine answer to these.
Sorry for being so dumb!

I suppose they term me as a Judaizer because I observe Sabbath and respect and love the 10 Commandments because God wrote them with His own finger. But from the not eating meat aspect - You won't be lost just because you don't eat meat and you don't have to start eating it. You are probably healthier than most of the rest of us meat eaters. The way the animals are treated and the drugs they give them you are much better off. Some people have food allergies so carry on being a vegetarian and loving the Lord.

 

[jag1977]

All food is fit for me when it's from God

 

[JesusLives]

These verses mention law and I did answer you about these verses in my previous post.

The Judaizer see's the word law and assumes that to mean the Mosaic law. However, a detailed look into what the NT calls law is not the same as the law of Moses at all. All the ritual requirements of the Mosaic law have been fulfilled by Christ and have no hold on Christians. Judaizers are the ones who seek "Christ plus Mosaic law(s)". While NT law and commandments have been given to us by Christ.

Christ affirmed 9 out of the 10 commandments and he never affirmed observance of sabbath, dietary restrictions, animal sacrifice or ritual washing. We are still under obligation to love God and our neighbor. We as Christians are told to obey the Moral laws Christ gave us. We as Christians are not under the ritual laws of the Mosaic laws. If think otherwise, then you maybe a Judaizer or plain confused. The Judaizer's gospel is "Christ plus one or more aspects of the ritual laws of Moses". Jesus clearly taught the old covenant and the new covenant are not compatible.

If Jesus didn't affirm the Sabbath as you say then why did He go into the temple on the Sabbath day? It is recorded that He read scripture of Isaiah in the temple....and told the people that the scripture was fulfilled admitting to them that He was the Messiah.

 

[jag1977]

He was with God on his sabbath which is for times

 

[JaumeJ]

Jesus fulfilled what Moses and the prophets wrote about Him, as for fulfilling Scripture, no. There is yet much to be fulfilled to be finished. He did however fulfill the law and the prophets (about Himself). It is important for clarity of spiritual purpose to understand this, otherwise passing it on is not good.

If Jesus didn't affirm the Sabbath as you say then why did He go into the temple on the Sabbath day? It is recorded that He read scripture of Isaiah in the temple....and told the people that the scripture was fulfilled admitting to them that He was the Messiah.

 

[Rockbysea]

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

What Timothy had was old dead rags. It will be interesting to see where you and Timothy stack up in the resurrection.

So all those who do not observe the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] day Sabbath and what other observances of the old contract you determine to be prerequisites to salvation will be stoned (perish) at the resurrection:

Pure arrogance.

 

[JaumeJ]

Thanks all for understanding what I intended saying. Drop the word disobey..........Yahweh bless your tender hearts.

So you are saying to disobey the Father's command to keep the S

eventh Day separate from workdays is not a moral law? It is immoral according to this thinking to obey Him and spend one day with Him in rest. Is this correct?

 

[Rockbysea]

Romans 2:12, "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."

True… and you will be judged by the law as it is expressed through the old contract. Those belonging to Christ will fulfill the law as it is expressed through the new contract.

 

[jag1977]

For as God rest in the 7th so do I in my search/works for him. All that comes from me is through him at his time. I am always whole and perfect in creation with God. I rest in labor for God for we are one...even though I walk.

 

[JesusLives]

Nope. Jesus never taught the NT believer to obey the sabbath, not even once as a hint. Jesus was a Jew and attend sabbath but never once are the NT believers ever told to obey the sabbath.

Mark 6:5 And He said to them The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.

 

[JesusLives]

that is the sad truth.

It seems the trolls have found me, and are currently attacking me on several threads, so I will be off.
thanks for the good thoughts KJV1611, and the very appropriate Scriptures you posted.

You may call me a Judaizer and a troll but I will call you brother.

 

[JesusLives]

Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

Old English metan "to find, find out; fall in with, encounter; obtain,"

What works allow us to obtain repentance?

Thou shalt not kill... nope that wont help me find repentance.
Thou shalt not commit adultery... nope that wont help me find repentance.
Thou shalt not steal... nope that wont help me find repentance.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour... nope that wont help me find repentance.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's... nope that wont help me find repentance.
Thou shalt keep the Sabaath... nope that wont help me find repentance.

What works allow us to obtain repentance?

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

You are right the law won't save me but the law tells me what sin is and because I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior and because I am directed to Love the Lord with all my heart, mind, strength I want to obey His 10 Commandments. Am I capable of doing that no BUT JESUS DID IT FOR ME. He said IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS. Not as a legalistic tactic but a because I love God gesture. P.S. I don't care if you are circumcised or not. - Maybe your heart but no other body part.

 

[Rockbysea]

Nope. Jesus never taught the NT believer to obey the sabbath, not even once as a hint. Jesus was a Jew and attend sabbath but never once are the NT believers ever told to obey the sabbath.

Mark 6:5 And He said to them The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.

Wrong scriptural reference: If you err on scripture reference with no attempt at correction how can you be reliable to teach from the scriptures?

 

[RedTent]

Matt, it is forever, but not the same forever. Let me explain this to you with circumcision and then apply it to sabbath.
1) Circumcision is called an everlasting covenant
Gen 17:13 ...both he who is born in your house and he who is bought with your money, shall surely be circumcised. So shall my covenant be in your flesh an everlasting covenant.

2) Paul claims circumcision of the flesh is of no profit.
Gal 5:2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
1Cor 7:19For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision..
1Cor 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything..

So in section 1 we have the declaration that Circumcision is forever but in section 2 we see in the NT it as being of no effect at all.
Q: What changed?
A: Christ fulfilled the law of circumcision. Circumcision is still forever in that it is now about our hearts instead of some useless skin.
It is the same for sabbath.
1) Again we see in the OT that same sort of language for sabbath.
Ex. 31:13 "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations,
(Keep in mind sabbath was only observed by Jews and never Gentiles)

2) As it was with Circumcision in the NT, so it is with sabbath in the NT.
Col 2:16-17 16Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17things which are a mere shadow of what is to come

3) This means we are not under any obligation to be circumcised, burn incense, ceremonial washings/purifications, animal sacrifice, etc ---because Christ fullfilled the law.Gal 5:4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Conclusion
We are not under any obligation to any jewish law. So are we now lawless? Of course not. We are under the Law of Christ.

Romans 7:4-7 4Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God. 5For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which werearoused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter

1Cor. 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
I hope that helps.

This post explains so well where I think you are misunderstanding God.

Scripture says it is the spiritual meaning of circumcision that counts, not the physical. I agree, it is circumcision of the heart that counts, physical is not required. You are taking this to extremes, we are human in a physical body and if we do something that leads us to spiritual understanding, it is not wrong to do that. It is only absolutely necessary we understand it wasn't the physical action that counted.

You are making a big case for "no Jews". God doesn't do that, and does not lead you to do that. It is wrong. Christ came for the Jews and the gentiles. God had pointed out all along that what they did physically should relate to the spiritual. Read the book of Isaiah, that is what it is about in large part. Your extremist view of "no physical" is not Godly. God says that we are not to use the physical as salvation, that part is Godly.

You need to study the development of the early church that developed from Jews and Gentiles who worshipped in the same synagogue to Constantine who ruled so anything of the OT was illegal. Constantine ruled for a new God, divorced completely from the root of Christ, from the OT teachings. Constantine taught that nothing of God preparing for Christ related to Christ, Christ was a new God who cancelled out the old, obsolete God. Constantine wasn't even a Christian, just used Christianity to unite his nation, and became Christian on his death bed. Before, he even murdered his wife. You are following Constantine, not Christ.

God blessed the Sabbath and made it a holy day. We are allowed to celebrate as Constantine led, he made it into a Christian celebration. But it is impossible to cancel what God has created by blessing the Sabbath and making it a Holy Day. Gentiles always worshipped on Sunday, it honored the sun. It honored idols. God said we could use that day to worship, it was if our hearts worshipped the true God. However, your decision to take away the Holiness of the Sabbath, and saying God only made it holy for Jews and we were excluded if wrong.

 

[RedTent]

All food is fit for me when it's from God

This is true, as long as you observe the spiritual behind that physical meaning of restricting your diet and not put garbage in your mind. If you do that, without the day to day living reminder of doing that of restricting also the physical of only eating foods from animals who will not eat garbage, it is fine, God doesn't care about what food you choose to eat. But it is not right to judge people who use choosing foods to eat to remind them, hour by hour, of what God requires of them spiritually. Not is it alright to choose to watch garbage TV, movies, and books that this diet restriction is about, spiritually.

 

[Rockbysea]

This is true, as long as you observe the spiritual behind that physical meaning of restricting your diet and not put garbage in your mind. If you do that, without the day to day living reminder of doing that of restricting also the physical of only eating foods from animals who will not eat garbage, it is fine, God doesn't care about what food you choose to eat. But it is not right to judge people who use choosing foods to eat to remind them, hour by hour, of what God requires of them spiritually. Not is it alright to choose to watch garbage TV, movies, and books that this diet restriction is about, spiritually.

So you don’t eat shrimp because it’s bad for your body but because it represents what’s bad for your mind. Not because eating shrimp will cause you to burn in the fires of hell.

 

[danschance]

If Jesus didn't affirm the Sabbath as you say then why did He go into the temple on the Sabbath day? It is recorded that He read scripture of Isaiah in the temple....and told the people that the scripture was fulfilled admitting to them that He was the Messiah.

You are forgetting that Jesus as a jew was under the Mosaic law up until his death and resurrection. After that He was not obligated to observe sabbath. So of course He would go to sabbath.

The sabbath was given to the jews and it was never given to gentiles.

 

[danschance]

This post explains so well where I think you are misunderstanding God.

Scripture says it is the spiritual meaning of circumcision that counts, not the physical. I agree, it is circumcision of the heart that counts, physical is not required. You are taking this to extremes, we are human in a physical body and if we do something that leads us to spiritual understanding, it is not wrong to do that. It is only absolutely necessary we understand it wasn't the physical action that counted.

You are making a big case for "no Jews". God doesn't do that, and does not lead you to do that. It is wrong. Christ came for the Jews and the gentiles. God had pointed out all along that what they did physically should relate to the spiritual. Read the book of Isaiah, that is what it is about in large part. Your extremist view of "no physical" is not Godly. God says that we are not to use the physical as salvation, that part is Godly.

You need to study the development of the early church that developed from Jews and Gentiles who worshipped in the same synagogue to Constantine who ruled so anything of the OT was illegal. Constantine ruled for a new God, divorced completely from the root of Christ, from the OT teachings. Constantine taught that nothing of God preparing for Christ related to Christ, Christ was a new God who cancelled out the old, obsolete God. Constantine wasn't even a Christian, just used Christianity to unite his nation, and became Christian on his death bed. Before, he even murdered his wife. You are following Constantine, not Christ.

God blessed the Sabbath and made it a holy day. We are allowed to celebrate as Constantine led, he made it into a Christian celebration. But it is impossible to cancel what God has created by blessing the Sabbath and making it a Holy Day. Gentiles always worshipped on Sunday, it honored the sun. It honored idols. God said we could use that day to worship, it was if our hearts worshipped the true God. However, your decision to take away the Holiness of the Sabbath, and saying God only made it holy for Jews and we were excluded if wrong.

Even if the sabbath was valid, I am a gentile and therefore I am not under any obligation to follow it.

If you think I made an error in that post, please report it to me. So far all you are doing is giving me your own editorial on my post without mentioning any specifics.

 

[JesusLives]

If we are to keep the Mosaic laws then why did Christ die?

Why do the 10 Commandments have to be a Mosaic law? God asked Cain where his brother Abel was? God put a mark on Cain because he killed his brother - The law not to kill was in place before Moses. I venture a guess that the law of God - 10 Commandments will stand in heaven after the return of Jesus - Why? Because God's law is a law of love and we keep it not because it saves us but because we honor our Father love and want to obey Him.