Attack of the Judaizers

Hizikyah · Jan 9, 2014

This had to be taken out of modern Bibles to complete the mystery of iniquity:

1 Maccabees 1:43-50, "All the Gentiles accepted the command of the king. Many even from Israel gladly adopted his religion; they sacrificed to idols and profaned the sabbath. And the king sent letters by messengers to Jerusalem and the cities of Judah; he directed them to follow customs strange to the land, to forbid burnt offerings and sacrifices and drink offerings in the sanctuary, to profane sabbaths and feasts, to defile the sanctuary and the priests, to build altars and sacred precincts and shrines for idol sacrifice swine and unclean animals, and to leave their sons uncircumcised. They were to make themselves abominable by everything unclean and profane, so that they should forget the law and change all the ordinances.And whoever does not obey the command of the king shall die.”

62-63, "But many in Israel stood firm and were resolved in their hearts not to eat unclean food. They chose to die rather than to be defiled by food or to profane the holy covenant; and they did die. 64 And very great wrath came upon Israel."

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

LT · Jan 9, 2014

Hizikyah said:

Even considering the "moadim" as an issue, is brand new to me. I would have to do more research. As of yet, I am not convinced that observing a Saturday Sabbath would be any closer to following the 4th Commandment.

The issues involved are:
1. The current day we call 'Saturday' doesn't actually line up with the ancient last day of the week, and it is impossible to truly find out how to correct the dating issues that occurred in the early middle-age.
2. The Sabbath has to do with taking 1 of 7 off, as a holy day of rest. I don't see how the name that society gives the day affects the purpose of the day.
3. My current congregation meets on Sunday, so finding a new church that meets on Saturday would cut me off from my local church body. (seems to cause more harm than good)

Hizikyah · Jan 9, 2014

LT said:

I greatly respect what you say brother. Please do look into these things.

1. So by astronomy, NOT astrology, one can know that the 7 day cycle has not changed since the Messiah was on earth, so we know that the 7th day He honored is the same day called "Saturday" today.

ps astronomy is looking at the moon or sun to tell time, this is the REASON they were created and for light! Astrology is for stupidness and prohibited, the moon cant tell us our future.

2. I agree it is a rest, but it is a little deeper:

Mattithyah 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

Isayah 58:13-14, "If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of Yahweh honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in idle conversation: Then you will find your joy in Yahweh; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father--for the mouth of Yahweh has spoken it."

It is rest from our will and a complete focus on His, 100% not 99% or less! It has really been a great physical and Spiritual blessing to me because it teaches me how to behave the other 6 days of the week while I am doing my own things, work, workout, shopping, cooking, conversations, etc.

3. There is no prohibition on worshiping and or gathering on any day of the week, it would be nice if congregations met every day to be honest. Keeping the 4th Commandment takes none but you and Yah! With that said I do believe there is danger in believing the Sabbath is the 1st day or any day of the week besides 7th day, because by the mouth of Yahweh He made it clear what day it is.

WomanLovesTX · Jan 9, 2014

BradC said:

The gospel of the Kingdom will not be preached until the church is taken out of the way preceded by a seven year tribulation period prior to the coming of the Kingdom age which begins at the second coming of Christ. The gospel of the coming Kingdom will be preached among the kingdoms of the nations at the time of great tribulation coming upon the earth with the blood of the Lamb making atonement for sin for those who believe. The mark of the beast will be designed to separate those who believe upon the coming Kingdom with Messiah as king and those who remain in unbelief as children of disobedience. God will supernaturally be their provision who refuse to take the mark. Many warnings will come from the two candlesticks that are sent to preach for 42 months.

The children of Israel will be raised up during this time to preach this gospel message to the masses. The coming of the Messiah will consummate this message and judgment of the nations followed by a 1000 year reign of Christ as the king who will reign on the throne of David. The church was never commissioned to preach the gospel of the Kingdom, only the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified. The church is not ignorant of the Kingdom nor the future aspect of that Kingdom when it comes to reign and rule over all the nations of the earth but will have already been called to come up hither having no part in that time of great tribulation. It is the duty of Israel and the Jews to preach the Kingdom message and not the church or the Gentiles.

Sounds like you got it all figured out. Me, I still see through a glass, darkly.

danschance · Jan 9, 2014

Laodicea said:

The sabbath is forever and Jesus is our sabbath.

[/h]Notice how Hebrews 4 speaks of sabbath rest and also entering into His rest. Jesus is our sabbath rest.

The sabbath you idolize is nothing but a mere shadow of what is to come. Jesus is our permanent sabbath rest.

Hizikyah · Jan 9, 2014

danschance said:

Its odd, you post a passage that affirms the guarding of Yahweh's Sabbath, what Yahweh calls His Mark and use it as a tool to justify transgression.

When did the mark of Yahweh change?

Ezekiel 20:12, "Moreover, I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies them."

*Sign is Word #226, Hebrew Dictionary, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.

Exodus 31:13-17, "Speak also to the children of Israyl, saying; Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for they are a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am Yahweh Who sanctifies you, and makes you holy"....16-17, "Therefore the children of Israyl shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israyl forever, for in six days Yahweh made the heavens and the earth, and on the Seventh Day He rested and was refreshed."

Revelation 14:9-11, "And the third malak followed them, saying with a loud voice: If any man worships the beast and his likeness, and receives his mark in his forehead or upon his hand, The same will drink of the wine of the wrath of Yahweh...........And they have no rest night and day, who worship the beast and his likeness..."

Exodus 13:9, "And it shall be as a *sign to you upon your hand and as a memorial between your eyes, that Yahweh's Law shall be in your mouth; for with a strong hand Yahweh has brought you out of Egypt."

*Sign is Word #226, Hebrew Dictionary, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.

This "sign" is your actions (right hand) which represents strength, what you do with your ability/life and memorial between your eyes Exodus 13:9, that explains the mark of Yahweh says: "memorial between your eyes," what do we remember with that is between our eyes? Our brain, or our thoughts and beliefs.

If you think the Sabbath is only for the Hebrew people and/or gentiles were grafted in during the NT you are Scriptually wrong:

Isayah 56:1-7, "This is what Yahweh says: Keep the judgments, and do justly; for My salvation is near, soon, to come, and My righteousness to be revealed. Blessed is the man who does this, and the son of man who lays hold on it; who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them; and keeps his hand from doing any evil. Do not let the son of the Gentile, who has joined himself to Yahweh, speak, saying; Yahweh has utterly separated me from His people. Nor let the eunuch say; Behold, I am a dry tree. For this is what Yahweh says: To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, and choose those things which please Me, and hold fast to My covenant: I will give to them, in My House, even within My walls, a place and a Name equal to that of sons and of daughters; I will give them the Name of The Everlasting: YAHWEH; which will not be cut off. Also the sons of the Gentile who join themselves to Yahweh, to serve Him, and to love the Name of Yahweh, to be His servants--everyone who keeps the Sabbaths without polluting; defiling, them and who holds fast to My covenant--I will bring them to My holy mountain, and make them joyful in My House of prayer..."

So then you can also kill, steal, and lie and Jesus makes that ok to transgress also? You know while one is physically lying Jesus is Spiritually lying so its ok?

Hebrews 10:26-30, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."

And the 7th day Sabbath is a prophetic shadow picture of the 1000 year reign.

danschance · Jan 9, 2014

john832 said:

I disagree. I think you simply do not understand what I am saying. For example, Jesus is our sabbath rest is still future because we are not at rest. This is what is implied in Col 2:17 "Mere shadows of things to come". Christ's death simply removed the yoke of Mosaic laws and He placed His yoke on us, which is light and easy to bear.

Hizikyah · Jan 9, 2014

Odd for someone who you claim writes not to celebrate Yahweh's Sabbath or Feats Days to write this:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore, purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new batch, since you are unleavened. For truly Yahshua our Passover was sacrificed for us. Therefore, let us keep the Feast, not with bold leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

1858. heortazo
heortazo: I keep a feast
Original Word: ???t???
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: heortazo
Phonetic Spelling: (heh-or-tad'-zo)
Short Definition: I keep a feast
Definition: I take part in a festival, keep a feast

The following is widely misunderstood-

Colossians 2:16-23, "16Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths, 17which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body [is] of the Christ; 18let no one beguile you of your prize, delighting in humble-mindedness and [in] worship of the messengers, intruding into the things he hath not seen, being vainly puffed up by the mind of his flesh, 19and not holding the head, from which all the body — through the joints and bands gathering supply, and being knit together — may increase with the increase of God.20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances? 21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle — 22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men, 23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh."

I think we have v16 down, I want to focus on 20-23, as to see context. Shaul (Paul) in nearly all his thoughts talks about a topic and then goes on to explain, he uses an advanced style of writing as his (worldly) education was beyond that of the other NT writers.

20If, then, ye did die with the Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances?

So he is saying if your dead to the world why would you subject yourself to its (the worlds) ordinances. To think he is saying if your dead to the world then why would you subject yourself to Yahweh"s/Yahshua's Commandments would make no sense, but he explains it further.

21— thou mayest not touch, nor taste, nor handle

the pharisees had a law in which you could not eat meat and cheese togather, or even within 4 houhs of eachother. Now this is not in Yahweh's Law even, Yahweh's Law says dont boil a child in its mothers milk (3 times) (the local pagans had this as a religious practice Yahweh did not want His people to partake in these evil pagan practices) the pharisees using something called "midrashic interpretation" the pharisees looked at it and said well since it says this three times it must meant three different things. SO THEY MADE UP THEIR OWN LAW, that was completely disconnected from Scripture and enforced it as from Yahweh.

22which are all for destruction with the using, after the commands and teachings of men,

So here very clearly he states "the commandments of men", now if you read from 16-20 you see he stays on topic, and 20 says basically if your dead to the world why do what the world tells you, so we can see he is still on this topic from v16. In this verse 22, he says "which are all for destruction", how does Sabbath lead to destruction and it would also have to be a "commandment of men" if there is ant commandment that is the farthest thing possible from being a "commandment of men" it is the Sabbath, it was from creation and it shows the AUTHORITY of the Creator, the mark of the Creator. Also tying a "commandment of men" to destruction Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to the commandments of men, you will die; but if, through the Spirit, you put to death; put an end to, the evildoing of mankind, you will live."

23which are, indeed, having a matter of wisdom in will-worship, and humble-mindedness, and neglecting of body — not in any honour, unto a satisfying of the flesh.

Pleasing of the pharisees by following the talmud. v22 for context = "after the commands and teachings of men"

you see the pharisees would have a problem if you did things according to Yahweh's instruction and not their ORAL LAW, this is shown in MATT 15, 23, mark 7:7-9, etc

If you kept the Sabbath NOT according to the Talmud but according to the Scriptures the Pharisees would have a problem.

Matt 12:10 & 12, "And, behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. Then they asked
Him, saying; Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath Days?--so that they might accuse Him."
"And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

The "Rabbis" also made their own holidays, Haunnaka and Rosh hashanna and more. when they left babylon they even changed the names of the moons (months), and rosh hashanna even changes the time of the new year, commandment and ordinances of men. the calendar Yahweh instuted is Yahweh's calendar, the one who created it created the heavens and the earth. Our current calendar is the gregorian calendar, which goes back to the bablonian calendar. Yahweh said the days end and begin at sunset, not the "Rabbis."

% made up "feast days" the Pharisees may had, brought you to trial, beat, imprisoned, or even killed you for not honoring. The Talmud tells a story of another "Rabbi" disagreeing and wanting to follow the Scriptures, and the head Pharisees makes then man, on threat of death appear in public on a Scriptual Feast Day in a way that the man cant honor Yahweh, thus commanding him to disobey Yahweh.

Rosh Hashanah (New Year)
Rosh Hashanah occurs on the first and second days of Tishri (the 7th moon or month, Yahweh's year starts in the 1st month). In Hebrew, Rosh Hashanah means, literally, "head of the year" or "first of the year." Rosh Hashanah is commonly known as the Jewish New Year.

How does the year start in the 7th month? According to the Scriptures and Yahweh;s calendar the year starts in the 1st month, Abib.

Chanukkah
On the 25th of Kislev are the days of Chanukkah, which are eight... these were appointed a Festival with Hallel [prayers of praise] and thanksgiving. -Shabbat 21b, Babylonian Talmud

Tu B'Shevat
There are four new years... the first of Shevat is the new year for trees according to the ruling of Beit Shammai; Beit Hillel, however, places it on the fifteenth of that month. -Mishnah Rosh Hashanah 1:1

Purim
Is one of the most joyous and fun holidays on the Jewish calendar. It commemorates a time when the Jewish people living in Persia were saved from extermination.

Tisha B'Av
Five misfortunes befell our fathers ... on the ninth of Av. ...On the ninth of Av it was decreed that our fathers should not enter the [Promised] Land, the Temple was destroyed the first and second time, Bethar was captured and the city [Jerusalem] was ploughed up. -Mishnah Ta'anit 4:6

Feasts the Yahweh says should be kept for all generations are promoted in the NT:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore, purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new batch, since you are unleavened. For truly Yahshua our Passover was sacrificed for us. Therefore, let us keep the Feast, not with bold leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

1858. heortazo
heortazo: I keep a feast
Original Word: ???t???
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: heortazo
Phonetic Spelling: (heh-or-tad'-zo)
Short Definition: I keep a feast
Definition: I take part in a festival, keep a feast

danschance · Jan 9, 2014

john832 said:

The mosaic laws had three types of laws.
1) Moral laws.
2) Ceremonial laws.
3) Judaical laws (i.e. laws about crime and punishments and laws governing the theocracy of Israel).

The laws of Christ are moral laws plus two ceremonial laws (Baptism and Communion).

Hizikyah · Jan 9, 2014

Man loves to make up his own doctrine

Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to the commandments of men, you will die; but if, through the Spirit, you put to death; put an end to, the evildoing of mankind, you will live."

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

WomanLovesTX · Jan 9, 2014

BradC said:

The gospel of the Kingdom will not be preached until the church is taken out of the way preceded by a seven year tribulation period prior to the coming of the Kingdom age which begins at the second coming of Christ. The gospel of the coming Kingdom will be preached among the kingdoms of the nations at the time of great tribulation coming upon the earth with the blood of the Lamb making atonement for sin for those who believe. The mark of the beast will be designed to separate those who believe upon the coming Kingdom with Messiah as king and those who remain in unbelief as children of disobedience. God will supernaturally be their provision who refuse to take the mark. Many warnings will come from the two candlesticks that are sent to preach for 42 months.

The children of Israel will be raised up during this time to preach this gospel message to the masses. The coming of the Messiah will consummate this message and judgment of the nations followed by a 1000 year reign of Christ as the king who will reign on the throne of David. The church was never commissioned to preach the gospel of the Kingdom, only the gospel of Jesus Christ and him crucified. The church is not ignorant of the Kingdom nor the future aspect of that Kingdom when it comes to reign and rule over all the nations of the earth but will have already been called to come up hither having no part in that time of great tribulation. It is the duty of Israel and the Jews to preach the Kingdom message and not the church or the Gentiles.

You really got me thinking about your above comments. Without addressing all, will you indulge me just one answer for one question?

If the gospel of the Kingdom will NOT be preached until the church is taken out of the way preceded by a 7 year tribulation period...then how do you explain Romans 15:19 were Paul says he fully preached the gospel OF Christ? Not the gospel about Christ.

Laodicea · Jan 9, 2014

Bazman said:

The Bible says the 7th day is the sabbath. Regardless of the name of the day it is the 7th day.

Elin · Jan 9, 2014

john832 said:

Elin said:

john832 said:

Col 2:16-17 is not the only passage treating of foreshadows.

Check out Heb 10:1-18, where the three above foreshadows are also
"future" tense.
(Hint: they were future to OT believers, among whom were the NT writers)

And non-responsive. . .you did not answer how the above foreshadows are future tense.

Likewise, your inability to provide clear NT teaching stating the holy day which speaks to Christ's return
or stating the 7,000-year duration of human history is noted.

non-responsive

Read it again.

Laodicea · Jan 9, 2014

danschance said:

Hebrews 4:9 KJV
(9) There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

G4520
σαββατισμός
sabbatismos
Thayer Definition:
1) a keeping sabbath
2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from a derivative of G4521

Hebrews 4:9 confirms that the 7th day sabbath remains it is not done away.

Elin · Jan 9, 2014

john832 said:

All of which are prophetic riddles, subject to more than one interpretation, with no unequivocal Biblical teaching to give their certain meaning.

I agree with the Apostles' Creed.

"And he shall come again to judge the living and the dead."

Elin · Jan 9, 2014

LT said:

Yes, evil men certainly have entered the Church over the years.
I suppose the only question is about how hard we should fight back, and if we should, then in what way?

I have been looking into something else:
The example of 'pressing forward regardless' is the same image of an ambulance. It speeds on with a mission in mind. It can break the traffic laws (traffic lights, speed limit, passing lanes) without fear of punishment, because it's mission is more important than the law: saving lives! (in our case, evangelism)

Is this part of the freedom we have in Christ? Or is this a poor image of 'pressing on toward the goal'.

Well, Christians are instructed to obey the laws of the land, unless they require one to personally sin.

Elin · Jan 9, 2014

Hizikyah said:

Is it not the book that states "it is a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead"?

danschance · Jan 9, 2014

Laodicea said:

You are pounding a square peg in a round hole.

First off, you are separating the 10 commandments from the Mosaic laws. There is not a single scripture that allows you to do this.

Laodicea · Jan 9, 2014

danschance said:

You are not accepting the word of God.

Laodicea · Jan 9, 2014

danschance said:

There is scripture that separates them The 10 commandments. The 10 commandments is the only place in all the Bible that God Himself wrote. It is the commandments of God not the commandments of Moses. The commandments of God can be shown in Genesis. The ceremonial laws were given in Exodus.

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