Christians and military service

[LovePink]

I usually try to stay away from topics on military service, homosexuality and legalism. Never fruitful or edifying, very emotional subjects.

One thing that usually gets mention in threads like this one, not sure if it has... but Jesus was killed under captital punishment governing.


The system is corrupt, the world is corrupt... religion is corrupt.

Lets not corrupt the gospel of our salvation, it is our only hope. It is our high calling.

 

[just-me]

I have heard very differing opinions from various people.

My question is: Is it morally acceptable for Christians to join (or stay in) the armed forces?

Some people say yes because John the Baptist never told the soldiers to quit their job and there are some cases of early Christians who were employed by the Roman military.

Others say no because the early church as a whole tended to be against Christians joining the military.


What are your thoughts? For a little background, I am an Air Force avionics technician.

Without a military a country can't exist. If God is blessing a country because they are legislating His will, it is Biblical to have a military to preserve the country as an example to the world. The United States used to be called a Christian nation. It is no longer seen that way to the rest world. Guess what's coming?

 

[Cobus]

Justme you have no idea about God and his will do you? If I have to DEFEND my country, the bully country can always take it, SO WHAT? What bully can take my place in heaven? I have NOTHING to defend here, not even Jesus! I do not have to defend Jesus!

England Australia South Africa all were known as "Christian countries, yet there is NO SUCH country in the Bible. It is INDIVIDUALS that makes up God's BODY here on earth, and they have NO LAND here.... They gather their treasures in HEAVEN...

 

[just-me]

Justme you have no idea about God and his will do you? If I have to DEFEND my country, the bully country can always take it, SO WHAT? What bully can take my place in heaven? I have NOTHING to defend here, not even Jesus! I do not have to defend Jesus!

England Australia South Africa all were known as "Christian countries, yet there is NO SUCH country in the Bible. It is INDIVIDUALS that makes up God's BODY here on earth, and they have NO LAND here.... They gather their treasures in HEAVEN...

Psalm 33:12-22 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]The LORD looketh from heaven; he beholdeth all the sons of men.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]From the place of his habitation he looketh upon all the inhabitants of the earth.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]He fashioneth their hearts alike; he considereth all their works.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]There is no king saved by the multitude of an host: a mighty man is not delivered by much strength.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]An horse is a vain thing for safety: neither shall he deliver any by his great strength.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Behold, the eye of the LORD is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy;
[SUP]19 [/SUP]To deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Our soul waiteth for the LORD: he is our help and our shield.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For our heart shall rejoice in him, because we have trusted in his holy name.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Let thy mercy, O LORD, be upon us, according as we hope in thee.

2 Chronicles 26:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And under their hand was an army, three hundred thousand and seven thousand and five hundred, that made war with mighty power, to help the king against the enemy.


How do you accuse one of ignorance and call yourself a humble servant of God almighty when you have no Idea what I have seen, or believe is the truth when you were 10 years old when I was fighting a war. Having a powerful army isn't wrong if righteous freedom is being preserved. God will use it for His glory, but as it is in the world right now, I don't see any righteous causes. As I said before, and then I will let it rest, facts, even if you think I have no brains, a country cannot exist without a military. I am talking about the reality in this corrupt world. God has an army, but that wasn't what was being addressed in the OP. My grandson is a marine. I was in Vietnam. Do I think all is for a righteous cause? NO! I won't degrade the military men and woman. Never. What they are ordered to do is another question entirely.

 

[Cobus]

I know you are wrong and I have yet to see a RIGHTEOUS WAR... Or a WAR that defend righteousness.... That is just the lamest excuse for war I EVER heard. I ask you again... England was a Chrsitian nation in 1899, and So was South Africa, WHY DID THEY WAR AGAINS EACH OTHER?

It is just so silly for a Chrisitan to even take up arms for WHATEVER reason. How do you DEFEND righteousness with a weapon? God says you should use the SWORD OF THE WORD of GOD! I know why "Chrisitans" enlist int he army, becasue they do not HAVE THE WORD OF GOD! Like you! I also fought in the war against TERRORISTS.... When I was stupid and did not even know God has a TWO EDGED SWORD FOR US....


Man the Sword I swing can severe.... For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Have you EVER put on the full armour of God? There is no gun or bullets or even a sword, but all SPIRITUAL war armour... AND YOU CANNOT LOOSE...

As I have it did the Vietnamese not kick the behinds of the US Army? You got your faces properly rubbed in shame in Vietnam did you not? And why did you (US) go to Iraq? Were there any weapons of mass destruction found yet? Nope, but I though Bush said that is the reason they attacked Iraq? I think the US is just a bully and an EVIL one at that. I am surprised you only had one 911....

A Christian nation you say. Defending Christianity by killing people in Iraq? Man you are a sick bunch of hypocrates. The bible in one hand and a machine hun on FOREIGN SOUL in the other.... Hypocrates... No wonder Islam is the biggest growing religion in the world.... It is ALLAH who says you should fight a HOLY WAR, NOT GOD!!!! Jesus NEVER said to take up arms against FLESH AND BLOOD....

What do you not understand in this Scripture? Please ask if you do not understand. Please read this.... For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Please note//// NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD.... Where did the USA got stuck? How can you defend your country when you stole it from the INDIANS? Whose country is it? The one that won the war by outnumbering and outgunning the persons that were there first? Or did God give you the country by letting you kill the indians? Please tell me how can I get land here on earth? Can I come to your country with my family and kill a farmer there and take his land as I am Christian and he is AMERICAN?

I still do not get it, when yuo went to Vietnam on whose side was God? The one that flies from his land to kill woman and children in another land, or the one DEFENDING his land AGAINST this foreiner that comes here where he has no say?

 

[Cobus]

Look why we (God's people will NEVER fight, not even when they want to kill our LORD.... My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

 

[just-me]

I know you are wrong and I have yet to see a RIGHTEOUS WAR... Or a WAR that defend righteousness.... That is just the lamest excuse for war I EVER heard. I ask you again... England was a Chrsitian nation in 1899, and So was South Africa, WHY DID THEY WAR AGAINS EACH OTHER?

It is just so silly for a Chrisitan to even take up arms for WHATEVER reason. How do you DEFEND righteousness with a weapon? God says you should use the SWORD OF THE WORD of GOD! I know why "Chrisitans" enlist int he army, becasue they do not HAVE THE WORD OF GOD! Like you! I also fought in the war against TERRORISTS.... When I was stupid and did not even know God has a TWO EDGED SWORD FOR US....


Man the Sword I swing can severe.... For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Have you EVER put on the full armour of God? There is no gun or bullets or even a sword, but all SPIRITUAL war armour... AND YOU CANNOT LOOSE...

As I have it did the Vietnamese not kick the behinds of the US Army? You got your faces properly rubbed in shame in Vietnam did you not? And why did you (US) go to Iraq? Were there any weapons of mass destruction found yet? Nope, but I though Bush said that is the reason they attacked Iraq? I think the US is just a bully and an EVIL one at that. I am surprised you only had one 911....

A Christian nation you say. Defending Christianity by killing people in Iraq? Man you are a sick bunch of hypocrates. The bible in one hand and a machine hun on FOREIGN SOUL in the other.... Hypocrates... No wonder Islam is the biggest growing religion in the world.... It is ALLAH who says you should fight a HOLY WAR, NOT GOD!!!! Jesus NEVER said to take up arms against FLESH AND BLOOD....

What do you not understand in this Scripture? Please ask if you do not understand. Please read this.... For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Please note//// NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD.... Where did the USA got stuck? How can you defend your country when you stole it from the INDIANS? Whose country is it? The one that won the war by outnumbering and outgunning the persons that were there first? Or did God give you the country by letting you kill the indians? Please tell me how can I get land here on earth? Can I come to your country with my family and kill a farmer there and take his land as I am Christian and he is AMERICAN?

I still do not get it, when yuo went to Vietnam on whose side was God? The one that flies from his land to kill woman and children in another land, or the one DEFENDING his land AGAINST this foreiner that comes here where he has no say?

Good grief man, read what I posted. Did I say that war was something righteous?

 

[Bookends]

I have heard very differing opinions from various people.

My question is: Is it morally acceptable for Christians to join (or stay in) the armed forces?

Some people say yes because John the Baptist never told the soldiers to quit their job and there are some cases of early Christians who were employed by the Roman military.

Others say no because the early church as a whole tended to be against Christians joining the military.


What are your thoughts? For a little background, I am an Air Force avionics technician.

I would hope that God leaves no place without His presence. What an awful place the military would be void of God.

 

[LT]

Good grief man, read what I posted. Did I say that war was something righteous?

he is just a trouble-maker. don't be offended. he just comes here to make people mad at him, so he can call it 'his persecution'.

 

[Bookends]

Look why we (God's people will NEVER fight, not even when they want to kill our LORD.... My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

There is a reason why Jesus said this, for then it was not the time to fight because Jesus had to fulfill the will of the Father.

Would you not use violence to stop a man from raping a child?

 

[just-me]

he is just a trouble-maker. don't be offended. he just comes here to make people mad at him, so he can call it 'his persecution'.

I'm not offended. thanks.

 

[Cobus]

There is a reason why Jesus said this, for then it was not the time to fight because Jesus had to fulfill the will of the Father.

Would you not use violence to stop a man from raping a child?

Did Jesus use violance? NOPE So I guess I would not have to either.... I think A REBUKT would let Satan FLEE from the light. Did it before.... Only the HOLINESS of God in me was neccesary to let the man STOP beating his family... And the DEVILS FLEE from the man.... Like the one in the cemitry LOGIO ..... The devils CANNOT continue their FILTHY ACTIVITIES in the precense of HOLINESS... Why is it you do not know this BOOKIE?

I went into a house with the GLORY AND HOLINESS of God in me and the man of the house stopped beating his wife and children the moment I entered into the from door. It was open, and the devils screamed as the light of God came on them. And they flew into the night sky SCREAMING in pain. Did you NEVER ecperience this?

Tell me what evil spirit can remain in the light? NONE! Tape, murder and wife bashing spirits are all VERY sensitive to the light of God... the POWER and holiness of the LIGHT of God beats ANY evil spirit to a pulp.... I thoght the BIG ones on CC woulf know this... LT, Bookends and TINTIN.... Come on ask God for some light guys....

LY i stand against soldiers and armies of this world as I stand against sin... they are all part of Satan's plan not God's/./// So I try my best NOT to make mad, but enlight with the Word of God.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Good grief man, read what I posted. Did I say that war was something righteous?

I put him on ignore. The constant twisting of words, rambling and unrighteous judging of Christians is more than I can tolerate.
Titus 3:10 came to mind on what to do with him.

 

[2Thewaters]

Military?
Luke 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

Romans would pillage the dead for gold
John says no
do not take the oil or money of the dead. Do not take their oil fileds. Do not talk their nation, do not take what is not yours...

 

[Ecclesiastik]

You asked. If you don't want to see, then don't ask. You are the one making the choice for yourself, either way you go, but don't hold the rest of us, Christians, to your slant. Military services are needful. It is even in the ranks of the angels. Now I have to go read the op, goodness, if I recall it was asking Christians beliefs, faith and opinions of military service by fellow Christians. One last verse for your first sentence statement, yeah, lest we forget the whole of the matter in all fairness.


The words of our Lord and Savior, 36*Then said he unto them, BUT NOW, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Just to name two, my grandma served as a nurse in the army, I am particularly fond of her. My grandpa is buried in the Los Angeles VA Cemetery, I love him. They felt their service to our country was a duty & an honor. My great grandpa was the chief of police over thirty years. I like authority, I like safe streets & protecting more than just our own. I think the reservists & the national guard are awesome for their part, too. The military does more than wage war. Move by faith Ecclesiastik, let others do likewise.

I am making the choice for myself. However, I am a bit frustrated that many people on here cannot see how much their arguments are based on compromise and selfism.

As per your verse, I take my instruments of survival. I have a knife, food, coats, and a place to live. However, I try not to look to these things as my saviors but rather to the Lord. It appears the disciples did the same in the book of Acts (which took place after they received this verse). They often suffered hunger, martyrdoms, and persecutions. To top it all off, I do not recall one example of an apostle or disciple taking the sword (or advising someone else to) against someone in the book of Acts or any book afterward. That is why I stand questioning my military service. Not because I want to be wrong or because I am an ascetic. I do this because I love the Lord and I don't want to do anything that displeases Him.

Yes, I realize that the military is so highly associated with honor. Yes, I realize that most churches laud their service members. Yes, I realize that it is a sacrifice to join the military and leave your family and friends behind to defend your country. I also realize that God often uses militaries as His instruments of justice and punishment.

However, can't you guys see that it goes deeper than this? It feels like most people examine this matter in a very shallow manner- one that is focused on the perpetuation of self-If the military keeps you safe and ensures your vitality, then the military is good enough. I hope you guys understand why I don't see this as a legitimate argument. It sounds like a more popular and accepted version of the prosperity gospel.

I'm telling you- if military service is wrong then I will quit. I've already informed my superiors that I might be filing for conscientious objector. I really need your help to convince me that military service is good and not bad. However, please do not expect me to be a push over. I need to decide what is right--Not what I want to be right. Military service has everything I need for survival...Good pay, free college, full medical coverage, and more free college after I get out! On the other hand if I leave (if God doesn't decide differently), hardship certainly awaits me. I'm not just supporting myself but my wife as well. I'll probably have to get a job flipping burgers or something until we can get on our feet enough for me to go back to school. My wife and I will also have to move back in with parents for a while.

But do not think for a second that hardship will stop me from obeying the word of God. There is no safer place to be than in God's will. I wish people would realize this and stop thinking that safety and prosperity are signs that a person is obeying God's will.

 

[2Thewaters]

Show me that from the Bible

 

[Elizabeth619]

Military?
Luke 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

Romans would pillage the dead for gold
John says no
do not take the oil or money of the dead. Do not take their oil fileds. Do not talk their nation, do not take what is not yours...

This isn't referring to war. It is about siezing property/taxes ect. He told them not to falsely accuse someone and not initiate violence steal. He is telling them to do their job honestly. Yet, they were never told to turn from their career.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I am making the choice for myself. However, I am a bit frustrated that many people on here cannot see how much their arguments are based on compromise and selfism.

As per your verse, I take my instruments of survival. I have a knife, food, coats, and a place to live. However, I try not to look to these things as my saviors but rather to the Lord. It appears the disciples did the same in the book of Acts (which took place after they received this verse). They often suffered hunger, martyrdoms, and persecutions. To top it all off, I do not recall one example of an apostle or disciple taking the sword (or advising someone else to) against someone in the book of Acts or any book afterward. That is why I stand questioning my military service. Not because I want to be wrong or because I am an ascetic. I do this because I love the Lord and I don't want to do anything that displeases Him.

Yes, I realize that the military is so highly associated with honor. Yes, I realize that most churches laud their service members. Yes, I realize that it is a sacrifice to join the military and leave your family and friends behind to defend your country. I also realize that God often uses militaries as His instruments of justice and punishment.

However, can't you guys see that it goes deeper than this? It feels like most people examine this matter in a very shallow manner- one that is focused on the perpetuation of self-If the military keeps you safe and ensures your vitality, then the military is good enough. I hope you guys understand why I don't see this as a legitimate argument. It sounds like a more popular and accepted version of the prosperity gospel.

I'm telling you- if military service is wrong then I will quit. I've already informed my superiors that I might be filing for conscientious objector. I really need your help to convince me that military service is good and not bad. However, please do not expect me to be a push over. I need to decide what is right--Not what I want to be right. Military service has everything I need for survival...Good pay, free college, full medical coverage, and more free college after I get out! On the other hand if I leave (if God doesn't decide differently), hardship certainly awaits me. I'm not just supporting myself but my wife as well. I'll probably have to get a job flipping burgers or something until we can get on our feet enough for me to go back to school. My wife and I will also have to move back in with parents for a while.

But do not think for a second that hardship will stop me from obeying the word of God. There is no safer place to be than in God's will. I wish people would realize this and stop thinking that safety and prosperity are signs that a person is obeying God's will.

If you feel in your heart that you are not honoring God by being in the military then I don't see why you should continue with that career. That goes for any job whether it be military or civilian, but make sure you aren't trying to find an excuse to leave it just bc you dont like it anymore. I see you are young. I know many young men and women that joined and realized it wasn't their cup of tea and found every excuse under the sun to get out for rather selfish reasons. I am not saying you are doing this, but make sure your decision is righteous and you aren't using the scriptures as an excuse because you don't want to be in it anymore.

 

[Bookends]

Did Jesus use violance? NOPE So I guess I would not have to either.... I think A REBUKT would let Satan FLEE from the light. Did it before.... Only the HOLINESS of God in me was neccesary to let the man STOP beating his family... And the DEVILS FLEE from the man.... Like the one in the cemitry LOGIO ..... The devils CANNOT continue their FILTHY ACTIVITIES in the precense of HOLINESS... Why is it you do not know this BOOKIE?

I went into a house with the GLORY AND HOLINESS of God in me and the man of the house stopped beating his wife and children the moment I entered into the from door. It was open, and the devils screamed as the light of God came on them. And they flew into the night sky SCREAMING in pain. Did you NEVER ecperience this?

Tell me what evil spirit can remain in the light? NONE! Tape, murder and wife bashing spirits are all VERY sensitive to the light of God... the POWER and holiness of the LIGHT of God beats ANY evil spirit to a pulp.... I thoght the BIG ones on CC woulf know this... LT, Bookends and TINTIN.... Come on ask God for some light guys....

LY i stand against soldiers and armies of this world as I stand against sin... they are all part of Satan's plan not God's/./// So I try my best NOT to make mad, but enlight with the Word of God.

You are correct in stating God did not use physical violence while walking on Earth, because His mission was to redeem not condemn. Also Jesus is our example of Christian living.

You'll read in the OT that God is a God of War. And you'll read in both the OT and NT that God does not change. That does not mean we pick up our weapons and avenge ourselves. That's God's job, hopefully we agree on that. But how does God avenge His people? How does God inflict Justice to one nation? It is by whom God has put into authority and by whom what nation God choices to carry out His justice and punishment. It's all over the OT, Cobus, I am surprised you don't see it, and Romans 13 speaks of this very thing.

Jesus did not pick up a weapon to kill the body during His sojourn here on Earth, but he certainly described what he's going to do if nations/tribes/people don't repent.

Matthew 21:33-46
[h=3]The Parable of the Wicked Vinedressers[/h]33 “Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit.35 And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. 36 Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”
41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”
42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?[j]

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”
45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on Him, they feared the multitudes, because they took Him for a prophet.

God used the Roman empire to fulfill this Cobus.

Matthew 22

[h=3]The Parable of the Wedding Feast[/h]22 And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come.4 Again, he sent out other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who are invited, “See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattleare killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding.”’ 5 But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. 7But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Who do you think the king is here Cobus?

Why don't you go walk in the heart and nations of all the Islamic radicals Cobus, if your theory is correct you could bring peace to the world. The Devil would have flee from you and you could make peace and heal the nations.

 

[Ecclesiastik]

This isn't referring to war. It is about siezing property/taxes ect. He told them not to falsely accuse someone and not initiate violence steal. He is telling them to do their job honestly. Yet, they were never told to turn from their career.

Once again, I do not think it is fair to say that because they were never explicitly told to quit, that means that the person who didn't tell them to quit supported their actions and their occupations. If I met a prostitute I probably wouldn't tell them to quit. I would just give them the Gospel.