Attack of the Judaizers

[psychomom]

When I lived in Asia my name did not change on my passport or when I introduced myself to people.

My point and yours are irrelevant.

Now I am not implying the following to you, I just want to speak it:

People love "who calls on the name of Jesus will be saved." Yet as soon as someone says Yahweh/Yahshua or however one thinks His real name is pronounced people have ALL kinds of problems. Is there not a Scripture that says:

Mark 13:13, "And you will be hated by all men for My Name's sake; but he who will endure until the end, the same will be saved."

Yahyl 2:32, "And whoever will call with the Name of Yahweh will be delivered; for in Mount Zion in Yerusalem there will
be deliverance, as Yahweh has said, among the remnant who has escaped of those whom Yahweh calls."

Acts 4:10-12, "Let it be known to you all, and to all the people of Israyl, that in the Name of Yahshua Messiah of Nazareth, Whom you nailed on a stake, but Whom Yahweh raised from the dead--by Him does this man stand here before you,
healed. This is the stone which was rejected by you, the builders, which has become the Head stone of the corner, Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other Name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Yahshua means Yahweh's Salvation.

Now I know, I think im special and have a free pass because I say a name (which I dont think). Yet when others do it in the name of tradition all is well, when I use HIS actual name, there is a problem.

The letter "J" did not even exist untill the 16th century, but I am the one who needs correction and rebuke?

I love Yahweh's and Yahsha's names, I choose to use them, I promote people to use their real names, I dont attack people for not using them, usually only bring it up when I am attacked or the topic is brought up. Yet I am attacked for using them, attacked for using their REAL names.....

Psalm 22:22, "I will declare Your Name to My brothers! In the midst of the congregation I will give You praise!"

Yeremyah 12:14-17, "This is what Yahweh says against all My evil neighbors who touch the inheritance which I have caused My people Israyl to inherit: Behold, I will pluck them up from off their land, and I will pluck up the house of Yahdah from among them. And it will come to pass, after I have plucked them out, that I will return and have compassion on them, and bring them back; everyone to his heritage and everyone to his land. And it will come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of My people, to vow by My Name, saying; As surely as Yahweh lives--as they once taught My people to vow by Baal; Lord--then they will be established in the midst of My people. But if they do not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, says Yahweh."

actually, my "point" was an honest question.

thanks for saying you don't imply your words to me, but they bring up another question.
(truly just an honest, answer seeking question )...

...are you saying that if one does not seek salvation in the Hebrew Name of the Savior they cannot be saved?

thanks for taking the time to respond.
~ellie

 

[Hizikyah]

actually, my "point" was an honest question.

thanks for saying you don't imply your words to me, but they bring up another question.
(truly just an honest, answer seeking question )...

...are you saying that if one does not seek salvation in the Hebrew Name of the Savior they cannot be saved?

thanks for taking the time to respond.
~ellie

No, and I wrote that in my post you quoted:

"Now I know, I think im special and have a free pass because I say a name (which I dont think). "

I believe sincerity and obedience are key. Loving Yahweh and loving our fellow human. One can say the name right if the love according to Yahweh's Law is not there it is called trampling the son of Yahweh underfoot (Heb 10-below) aka using the Messiah as a doormat.

I do think Yahweh will reveal His name to His children one way or another sooner or later:
(also are these verses not intriguing?)

Isayah 52:6, "Therefore My people will know My Name; Therefore they will know in that day that I am He Who speaks. Behold, it is I!"

Proverbs 30:4, "Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound up the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name? And what is the Name of His Son? Tell me, if you know!"

Hebrews 10:26-31, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living Father."

 

[Hizikyah]

I want to add this,

Also Yahweh clearly wants us to use His name no matter what race we are:


Yeremyah 12:14-17, "This is what Yahweh says against all My evil neighbors who touch the inheritance which I have caused My people Israyl to inherit: Behold, I will pluck them up from off their land, and I will pluck up the house of Yahdah from among them. And it will come to pass, after I have plucked them out, that I will return and have compassion on them, and bring them back; everyone to his heritage and everyone to his land. And it will come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of My people, to vow by My Name, saying; As surely as Yahweh lives--as they once taught My people to vow by Baal; Lord--then they will be established in the midst of My people. But if they do not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, says Yahweh."

 

[Hizikyah]

I want to add this,

Also Yahweh clearly wants us to use His name no matter what race we are:


Yeremyah 12:14-17, "This is what Yahweh says against all My evil neighbors who touch the inheritance which I have caused My people Israyl to inherit: Behold, I will pluck them up from off their land, and I will pluck up the house of Yahdah from among them. And it will come to pass, after I have plucked them out, that I will return and have compassion on them, and bring them back; everyone to his heritage and everyone to his land. And it will come to pass, if they will diligently learn the ways of My people, to vow by My Name, saying; As surely as Yahweh lives--as they once taught My people to vow by Baal; Lord--then they will be established in the midst of My people. But if they do not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, says Yahweh."

Would this cause some here to classify Yahweh as a "Judaizer?"

 

[psychomom]

No, and I wrote that in my post you quoted:

"Now I know, I think im special and have a free pass because I say a name (which I dont think). "

I believe sincerity and obedience are key. Loving Yahweh and loving our fellow human. One can say the name right if the love according to Yahweh's Law is not there it is called trampling the son of Yahweh underfoot (Heb 10-below) aka using the Messiah as a doormat.

I do think Yahweh will reveal His name to His children one way or another sooner or later:
(also are these verses not intriguing?)

Isayah 52:6, "Therefore My people will know My Name; Therefore they will know in that day that I am He Who speaks. Behold, it is I!"

Proverbs 30:4, "Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound up the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His Name? And what is the Name of His Son? Tell me, if you know!"

Hebrews 10:26-31, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living Father."

what I put in bold...sorry I didn't make that connection.

here's another verse to ponder--Rev. 19:12 (NASB)
His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.

YLT
and his eyes are as a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems -- having a name written that no one hath known, except himself

the following verse...
He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

SO much to think about!

 

[psychomom]

Would this cause some here to classify Yahweh as a "Judaizer?"

it does make me wonder what translation you use.

why do you follow the word Baal with Lord?

 

[JaumeJ]

Baal does mean Lord, and is used in the Old Testament on occasion in this sense. The plural is baalim. Sarah called Abraham baal. As I have said before, I do not believe for a New York second it was a form of servitude to call Abraham lord, I believe it was almost a term of enearment and respect. I wonder what Abraham called Sarah?

From Merriam-Webster [h=2]Origin of BAAL[/h]Hebrew baʽal lordFirst Known Use: 14th century

 

[Hizikyah]

it does make me wonder what translation you use.

why do you follow the word Baal with Lord?

prophecy is real:

Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."

BAAL (DEITY) [Hebrew - baal] . Canaanite storm and fertility god. The name, which means “lord, ” is an epithet of the god Hadad (lit. “thunderer” ). Well-known from the OT, he is now extremely well-attested in the Ugaritic texts, in addition to being mentioned in other ancient texts.
Freedman, David Noel: The Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York : Doubleday, 1996, c1992, S. 1:546

BA´AL (ba'al; Heb. ba?al, “lord, possessor”).
1. A common name for god among the Phoenicians; also the name of their chief male god. See Gods, False.
Unger, Merrill Frederick ; Harrison, R. K. ; Vos, Howard Frederic ; Barber, Cyril J. ; Unger, Merrill Frederick: The New Unger's Bible Dictionary. Rev. and updated ed. Chicago : Moody Press, 1988


Baal (Heb. ba?al) DEITY
The Canaanite storm- and fertility-god. As an epithet for various West Semitic deities, especially Hadad, the name means “lord,” designating a legal state of ownership or social superiority. With the obvious exception of Yahweh, Baal is the most significant deity in the OT.
Freedman, David Noel ; Myers, Allen C. ; Beck, Astrid B.: Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible. Grand Rapids, Mich. : W.B. Eerdmans, 2000


BAAL [BAY uhl] (lord, master) — the name of one or more false gods, a place, and two people in the Old Testament:
1. A fertility and nature god of the Canaanites and Phoenicians. Also see Gods, Pagan.
Youngblood, Ronald F. ; Bruce, F. F. ; Harrison, R. K. ; Thomas Nelson Publishers: Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary. Nashville : T. Nelson, 1995

 

[Hizikyah]

what I put in bold...sorry I didn't make that connection.

here's another verse to ponder--Rev. 19:12 (NASB)
His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.

YLT
and his eyes are as a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems -- having a name written that no one hath known, except himself

the following verse...
He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

SO much to think about!

I have always wondered about this too!

I think our languages worldwide are full of pagan influences, in the kingdom this will not be so!

Zephanyah 3:9, "For then I will purify the language of the peoples, that they may all call on the name of Yahweh, to serve him shoulder to shoulder."
"

 

[psychomom]

prophecy is real:

Yeremyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal."

BAAL (DEITY) [Hebrew - baal] . Canaanite storm and fertility god. The name, which means “lord, ” is an epithet of the god Hadad (lit. “thunderer” ). Well-known from the OT, he is now extremely well-attested in the Ugaritic texts, in addition to being mentioned in other ancient texts.
Freedman, David Noel: The Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York : Doubleday, 1996, c1992, S. 1:546

BA´AL (ba'al; Heb. ba?al, “lord, possessor”).
1. A common name for god among the Phoenicians; also the name of their chief male god. See Gods, False.
Unger, Merrill Frederick ; Harrison, R. K. ; Vos, Howard Frederic ; Barber, Cyril J. ; Unger, Merrill Frederick: The New Unger's Bible Dictionary. Rev. and updated ed. Chicago : Moody Press, 1988


Baal (Heb. ba?al) DEITY
The Canaanite storm- and fertility-god. As an epithet for various West Semitic deities, especially Hadad, the name means “lord,” designating a legal state of ownership or social superiority. With the obvious exception of Yahweh, Baal is the most significant deity in the OT.
Freedman, David Noel ; Myers, Allen C. ; Beck, Astrid B.: Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible. Grand Rapids, Mich. : W.B. Eerdmans, 2000


BAAL [BAY uhl] (lord, master) — the name of one or more false gods, a place, and two people in the Old Testament:
1. A fertility and nature god of the Canaanites and Phoenicians. Also see Gods, Pagan.
Youngblood, Ronald F. ; Bruce, F. F. ; Harrison, R. K. ; Thomas Nelson Publishers: Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary. Nashville : T. Nelson, 1995

I guess what I'm wondering is does the word "Lord" always mean Baal to you?
Are you saying that If I refer to the Lord Jesus, it's wrong?

I think it's true that many Bible translations sub the word Lord for the tetragrammaton.
Do you consider that to be an official reference to an idol?

 

[john832]

However, mankind neither knew them, nor was commanded to obey them, until he promulgated them.

And yet people DIED for breaking them?

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

Now read verse 14 carefully. Death reigend from sin (Rom6:23 that is one absolute that has never changed) from the time of Adam to Moses.

 

[john832]

Even the word TORAH doesn't actually mean 'laws' but actually means 'teachings'.

God's instructions of what is righteous and unrighteous have been made known since the beginning.

Do yourself a favor and ask any Jew today waht the word Torah means. Wanna bet what he will come back with (the first five books of the Bible)?

 

[john832]

Swine eats anything and generates fat to contain whatever the body could not recognize. The reason why they produce so much "bacon". People would rather listen to doctors and health experts than the good old testament.

Sure! Because the AMA and Pharma are dedicated to your good health. Oh and by the way, eggs are good, no wait, eggs are bad. Uh, wait, changed my mind, eggs are good. Now, eggs are...

Modern medicine knows much more about the human body than the Designer and Creator of it.

 

[john832]

What specific Scriptures do you have in mind?

What specific Scriptures do you have in mind?


Yes, in the Torah, but not the Torah.

The NT writers were Jewish.

If they were talking about the "Torah," they would have used the word, rather than "the law,"
which is not the whole Torah.


There is another option.

The law of Moses did not mean the Torah.


Not over the meaning of Torah, but over the Judaizers' attempt to change the law of Christ
(Mt 22:37-39) from two commandments to 613.

The law of Christ fulfills the law; i.e., the Ten Commandments (Ro 3:10; Gal 5:6), which were the basis of the Sinaitic Covenant that Israel could not, and did not, keep, so God wrote them on hearts in the New Covenant.

Mat 22:37 Jesus said to him, 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like it: 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'

So, Mat 22:37-39 is not the Ten Commandments? It is some new law from Christ? Let's just see about that, here is Mark's account of the same occurrence...

Mar 12:29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'HEAR, O ISRAEL, THE LORD OUR GOD, THE LORD IS ONE.
Mar 12:30 AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.' This is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second, like it, is this: 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

Hmmm, this is the "law of Christ"? Yes and I agree with you 100 over 100. It also happens to be quoted from the book of Deuteronomy...

Deu 10:12 "And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require of you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul,
Deu 10:13 and to keep the commandments of the LORD and His statutes which I command you today for your good?

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!
Deu 6:5 You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
Deu 6:6 "And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart.

And what did He just command them?

Deu 6:1 "Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the LORD your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess,
Deu 6:2 that you may fear the LORD your God, to keep all His statutes and His commandments which I command you, you and your son and your grandson, all the days of your life, and that your days may be prolonged.

Deu 5:6 'I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Deu 5:7 'You shall have no other gods before Me.
Deu 5:8 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;
Deu 5:9 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,
Deu 5:10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
Deu 5:11 'You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
Deu 5:12 'Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
Deu 5:13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
Deu 5:14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you.
Deu 5:15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
Deu 5:16 'Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
Deu 5:17 'You shall not murder.
Deu 5:18 'You shall not commit adultery.
Deu 5:19 'You shall not steal.
Deu 5:20 'You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
Deu 5:21 'You shall not covet your neighbor's wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.'

This "law of Christ" you keep spouting replaced the Ten Commandments is actually THE Ten Commandments.

 

[ProphetExcalibur]

Yes, I am learning but we do not need to follow satan or his false teachers to learn. Paul warned us to not follow false teaching. He called it ..A little leaven in the dough (Gal. 5:9). Yet you claim satan has nothing to do with an open mind. I bet Eve would disagree with you as she had an open mind to listen to the twisted logic that went against the commands of God.

Hey danschance, nice Thread! 9 thousand hits in a week!

 

[JaumeJ]

Now I ask, is this a coincidence? I was reviewing the word, Torah, just this morning. It does mean teachings, but has also come to be synonomous with the Pentateuch or the Books penned by Moses.

It is intriguing to read Paul's discourse on "law" keeping in mind the word used in Hebrew is teachings instead of law. Some of what seemed talking in circles becomes more understandable.

Yahweh must be moving on us to speak and share on the subjet of teachigs, torah! Praise Yahweh, amen.

 

[JaumeJ]

Going back to the Psalms, 119 in particular, I see how the word law used there is torah in Hebrew. Again, according to Strong's torah means Pentateuch or Decalog, and this too is all the teachings of the Books penned by Moses, but again, and this cannot be stressed too much, the meaning of torah is teachings, and this makes much easy to understand. Keeping in mind the prophets and Moses wrote of our Salvation, we know the Book, that is, the Bible, is more one book than ever before....

 

[LT]

Do yourself a favor and ask any Jew today waht the word Torah means. Wanna bet what he will come back with (the first five books of the Bible)?

Exactly! The first 5 books are the teachings of God, given to men.

If there was righteousness before the first 5 books were written, then righteousness comes from something other than just the Pentateuch(TORAH). Although the Pentateuch does perfectly describe what God desires for our righteousness, and salvation, through faith.

 

[Josh321]

Exactly! The first 5 books are the teachings of God, given to men.

If there was righteousness before the first 5 books were written, then righteousness comes from something other than just the Pentateuch(TORAH). Although the Pentateuch does perfectly describe what God desires for our righteousness, and salvation, through faith.

that... it is, received by grace through faith to believe in God, this is what happens when someone believes,
[h=3]Romans 8:4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

works of the flesh; this is to walk after the flesh
[h=3]Galatians 5:19-21[/h]King James Version (KJV)

19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.



Works of the spirit ;this is to walk after the spirit by nature

[h=3]Galatians 5:22-23[/h]King James Version (KJV)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


[h=3]Romans 13:10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[RedTent]

2 Corinthians 6:14, "Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?"

Isayah 8:20, "To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

Mattithyah 19:17, "But He said to him: Why do you question Me about righteousness? There is only One Who is the standard of perfection, and that is Yahweh; so if you would enter into life, keep the Laws of Yahweh."

When you type in Hebrew, it is a foreign language to us and we can't read what you say. I have to skip your posts, and I am sure you have something valuable to say, why not write in English? Translating the bible to English was a good move. Please, you do it, too.