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Joel Osteen
- Thread starter RickyZ
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Ok, I'm might be on the firing line here, but I enjoy Joel Olsteens ministry.....it motivates and there were a number of times I felt down and it was at that time I switched the TV on, and there he was and his message on those particular days just lifted me....I hear what the others are saying but sometimes his message I felt was directed at me.......
There have been snippets of his sermons that have pithily stated truth. But for the most part, it is poor theology.
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KittenofMelchisedek
Guest
seriously, pre-trib rapture = contradictory to scripture because scripture specifically says in almost every spot that talks about the return of our Lord, says it will be after the tribulation.
prosperity gospel= contradictory to scripture because Christ continually points to a simple life of mutual edification among brethren and specifically says there will be opposition and persecution. Not once does he say we'll have creature comforts.
Also, husbands are responsible for their wives. That's more common sense but scripture is clear that he is the head. If the head makes the decisions, then he is responsible for them, and as the marital union is the image of Christ and his beloved church, I'd say your wife's spiritual health should be a priority, as well as being, you guessed it, your responsibility.
And yes there is problems with the wishy washy lovey dovey positivity mumbo jumbo, the problem is that it isn't real. It's real in the same way hypnotism is real.
I respect your repentance dude, but just because you transgressed in speaking or in judging this guy's show, doesn't mean you didn't judge rightly the first time about most of the rest of it. Just because saying something out loud is a sin, doesn't mean it's inaccurate.
prosperity gospel= contradictory to scripture because Christ continually points to a simple life of mutual edification among brethren and specifically says there will be opposition and persecution. Not once does he say we'll have creature comforts.
Also, husbands are responsible for their wives. That's more common sense but scripture is clear that he is the head. If the head makes the decisions, then he is responsible for them, and as the marital union is the image of Christ and his beloved church, I'd say your wife's spiritual health should be a priority, as well as being, you guessed it, your responsibility.
And yes there is problems with the wishy washy lovey dovey positivity mumbo jumbo, the problem is that it isn't real. It's real in the same way hypnotism is real.
I respect your repentance dude, but just because you transgressed in speaking or in judging this guy's show, doesn't mean you didn't judge rightly the first time about most of the rest of it. Just because saying something out loud is a sin, doesn't mean it's inaccurate.
You should read Ecclesiastes... Or maybe the story about Nicodemus... To be Gnostic is not biblical...
here is a nice view by Mark Driscoll on Joel Olsteen...
[video=youtube;BpNBhJvWpoQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpNBhJvWpoQ[/video]
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didymos
Guest
I would call him 'toothpaste ad preacher' instead,
but I don't, since we're called not to judge people on their outside appearance.
I would call him 'toothpaste ad preacher' instead,
but I don't, since we're called not to judge people on their outside appearance.
you're right though, i think that man could sell a set of dentures to an earthworm!
sorry about that ( ↑ )
but on topic:
i would go with her (if it is free; i wouldn't give that man money to hear him talk) and openly make known what specific objections you have. isn't it better to be able to confront directly whatever problems there are in his teachings or non-teachings than to let her go alone and then not have any clear idea of what he said or did not say? this also gives you the opportunity to witness to others at the "big show" that you wouldn't otherwise have by staying home.
better to be able to directly confront this than to have it arise later as a point of regret and contention.
but on topic:
i would go with her (if it is free; i wouldn't give that man money to hear him talk) and openly make known what specific objections you have. isn't it better to be able to confront directly whatever problems there are in his teachings or non-teachings than to let her go alone and then not have any clear idea of what he said or did not say? this also gives you the opportunity to witness to others at the "big show" that you wouldn't otherwise have by staying home.
better to be able to directly confront this than to have it arise later as a point of regret and contention.
U
Ugly
Guest
And some people are so caught up in acceptance they turn a blind eye to false teachings that the bible warns us to watch out for.
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Hoffco
Guest
Joel Osteen is the Devil appearing as an "angel of light" and a "wolf in sheep clothing" . Sure, he sounds sooo pleasent, we all like nice things; but the bitter pills of life are good for us,and, yes, a little sugar makes the medicine go down better. I need to use more sugar in my preaching,LOL, more stories, illustrations would help my preaching. From what little I have heard and seen, He needs to accept the Bible and learn to preach the whole truth of God. He is a false prophet. Love to all, Hoffco
I encourage you Rick to just put your foot down firmly, and lovingly and respectfully let your wife know that you will not support Joel Osteen.
Joel Osteen is a false prophet. He twists and wrests the Scriptures constantly. He does not preach repentance and he does not preach on hell. Joel Osteen is probably one of the most popular ministers of Satan in America today as we speak.
Also, if you have sometime, you can listen to this sermon below, where a Bible believing preacher shows the errors and flaws of one of Joel's "best sellers" (Your Best Life Now) and how it is just a book of secular humanism that is not written to Christians but lost people.
[video=youtube;QGgVGufKpoA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGgVGufKpoA[/video]
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ladylynn
Guest
How many people who condemn someone like Joel O. can say they lead one soul to the Lord let alone hundreds and maybe thousands? How many of them could say they helped someone's daily walk by reminding them of God's constant and abiding love?
Some people have whole ministries just for finding wrong about another christian. The show "Wretched" is one of them. yikes. what an awful reason to have a "ministry" , finding fault with people. They certainly do sound "Wretched" "ministering" to people's sin nature to condemn others.,as if humans need help in that area.
Joel has white teeth..... joke about him find fault with his teeth.
Joel has a smiley face....condemn him for being fake - how do u read someone's heart? Only God knows the heart of men and women.
Joel has money.... condemn him for being a glutton of greed
Joel preaches differently than some are used to hearing by sharing more the joy of his Lord so he must be a fake not preaching the whole "council" of God.....which for some is the wretchedness of doubt and judgment toward their fellow brothers and sisters.
(The love of God brings us to repentence.. Amen) The joy of the Lord is our strength.... not the condemnation of the Lord.
Who r these self appointed judges who decide who is worthy and who is not? Who gave these people permission to condemn someones heart attitude? As if they lived with these preachers and teachers and know every step in their day? No one has enough information about another person to judge to the degree so many take it upon them selves to do.
The Bible INSTEAD gives us other instruction.... saying the highest calling for us is to love one another. Corinthians 13:1-- begins a discourse on love. It tells us clearly that no matter how many gifts of the Spirit we may operate in, if we are not operating in love, all other gifts are useless.
If we speak in tongues, but do not love, we just make a big noise. If we have prophetic power, and power to understand and interpret secrets and mysteries, if we have all knowledge and so much faith we can move mountains, but have not love, according to the apostle Paul, we are useless nobodies.
Even if we give away all that we have to feed the poor and surrender our very lives, but do it with wrong motives and not out of love, we gain nothing.
It's easier to find fault with people then to love them because that comes naturally to the flesh. It takes the Holy Spirit to teach us how to love like 1 Cor. instructs. It's natural to bite back when someone hurts you but it takes the Holy Spirit to understand grace. If you have recieved grace, you are able to give grace. We need to give a lot of grace to one another. If you find all you have inside is a wretched need to find fault.... maybe you never experienced the gracefulness of God's love and forgiveness and need to ask Him to make it more real to your hearts. A person can be saved but still not understand what God's love can do in a life. It sets us free to love people without judgment or the need to find the speck in our brothers eye without realizing the log in our own eye.
Some people have whole ministries just for finding wrong about another christian. The show "Wretched" is one of them. yikes. what an awful reason to have a "ministry" , finding fault with people. They certainly do sound "Wretched" "ministering" to people's sin nature to condemn others.,as if humans need help in that area.
Joel has white teeth..... joke about him find fault with his teeth.
Joel has a smiley face....condemn him for being fake - how do u read someone's heart? Only God knows the heart of men and women.
Joel has money.... condemn him for being a glutton of greed
Joel preaches differently than some are used to hearing by sharing more the joy of his Lord so he must be a fake not preaching the whole "council" of God.....which for some is the wretchedness of doubt and judgment toward their fellow brothers and sisters.
(The love of God brings us to repentence.. Amen) The joy of the Lord is our strength.... not the condemnation of the Lord.
Who r these self appointed judges who decide who is worthy and who is not? Who gave these people permission to condemn someones heart attitude? As if they lived with these preachers and teachers and know every step in their day? No one has enough information about another person to judge to the degree so many take it upon them selves to do.
The Bible INSTEAD gives us other instruction.... saying the highest calling for us is to love one another. Corinthians 13:1-- begins a discourse on love. It tells us clearly that no matter how many gifts of the Spirit we may operate in, if we are not operating in love, all other gifts are useless.
If we speak in tongues, but do not love, we just make a big noise. If we have prophetic power, and power to understand and interpret secrets and mysteries, if we have all knowledge and so much faith we can move mountains, but have not love, according to the apostle Paul, we are useless nobodies.
Even if we give away all that we have to feed the poor and surrender our very lives, but do it with wrong motives and not out of love, we gain nothing.
It's easier to find fault with people then to love them because that comes naturally to the flesh. It takes the Holy Spirit to teach us how to love like 1 Cor. instructs. It's natural to bite back when someone hurts you but it takes the Holy Spirit to understand grace. If you have recieved grace, you are able to give grace. We need to give a lot of grace to one another. If you find all you have inside is a wretched need to find fault.... maybe you never experienced the gracefulness of God's love and forgiveness and need to ask Him to make it more real to your hearts. A person can be saved but still not understand what God's love can do in a life. It sets us free to love people without judgment or the need to find the speck in our brothers eye without realizing the log in our own eye.
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ladylynn
Guest
Listening to this preacher read Joel O. book...
very sad interpretations this man has of what Joel wrote. I've heard and agree with what Joel wrote because i did not agree what this man judged Joel to be saying or meaning. This preacher took his own ideas of what was being said and turned what Joel said all around.
God loves us unconditionally. Amen. He does not love us based on our works, He loves us because of what Jesus did. We r no longer under condemnation. God loves us the same as when we stand well or when we fall badly.
His love stands above and beyond our sins and our ideas. Amen, thank You Lord. If someone accepts Jesus Christ as Saviour believing Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the life... they are saved. no longer identified as sinners but instead are now born again saints and children of God.
This man who is reading this book totally is missing the point of what is being written by Joel. This man seems to be basing God's acceptence on our works of the flesh not on Jesus Christ finished work. We are saved by Jesus Christ finished work on the cross and we are sanctified daily by Jesus Christ finished work on the cross. We can cry Abba Father now.
God has forgiven our sins - past---present---future. Forgiveness is obtained through Jesus sacrafice on the Cross. God will NEVER reject us because we are IN HIS SON JESUS. Wrapped in HIS righteousness not our own.
Wrapped in His righteousness alone faultless to stand before the throne.
We are now the righteousness of God IN JESUS CHRIST. We can be sucessful as we walk in the truth of God's unending unlimited love. Amen.
While we are on this earth, we can walk in the joy of our salvation. We can be joyful in this life and be happy in Jesus and what He has done for us. The blessings He gives us. We don't know what tomorrow will hold for us on earth but when we have trouble in life, we can believe what God says about us, not the bad things we feel about ourselves and others during those low times in our lives. Knowing the love of God enables us to move freely not be bound by the chains of self condemnation. There is therefore now NO condemnation to them who are IN Christ Jesus. Forgiven by God through Jesus.
Sowing and reaping . I agree with Joel O. Give your all to God and He gives us so much more than we can imagine. Put our faith in God and not our money. I agree with Joel O.
Living your best life now.... this is referring to how we can live our best life here on earth while we are here. You don't have to be miserable here in darkness and misery while we live here on planet earth. We can claim the joy God promises by faith. We can live IN JOYFUL ANTICIPATION OF Heaven. When can we be joyful? NOW. And yes, God blesses His kids abundantly. So sad that people think being poor gains a special spiritual mark as if they could gain spirituality by their works of the flesh. "Look at me I'm humble....? " Boasting comes in many forms., rich people boast and so do poor people. Man knows how to do that boasting stuff on any level. That's humanity for you.
Will hating yourself glorify God? Or does the Lord tell us to love others as we love ourselves?
how can u love others if you don't know how to accept and love yourself? Does God love us? yes. Should we hate what God loves? no. It is important to understand the love of God and live IN His love. We being evil do we know how to give good gifts? How much MORE than does your Father in heaven. Amen. Thank You Father for blessing me every day with the joyful knowledge you love me and are taking care of me. Thank You Father. Amen.
very sad interpretations this man has of what Joel wrote. I've heard and agree with what Joel wrote because i did not agree what this man judged Joel to be saying or meaning. This preacher took his own ideas of what was being said and turned what Joel said all around. God loves us unconditionally. Amen. He does not love us based on our works, He loves us because of what Jesus did. We r no longer under condemnation. God loves us the same as when we stand well or when we fall badly.
His love stands above and beyond our sins and our ideas. Amen, thank You Lord. If someone accepts Jesus Christ as Saviour believing Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the life... they are saved. no longer identified as sinners but instead are now born again saints and children of God.This man who is reading this book totally is missing the point of what is being written by Joel. This man seems to be basing God's acceptence on our works of the flesh not on Jesus Christ finished work. We are saved by Jesus Christ finished work on the cross and we are sanctified daily by Jesus Christ finished work on the cross. We can cry Abba Father now.
God has forgiven our sins - past---present---future. Forgiveness is obtained through Jesus sacrafice on the Cross. God will NEVER reject us because we are IN HIS SON JESUS. Wrapped in HIS righteousness not our own.
Wrapped in His righteousness alone faultless to stand before the throne.
We are now the righteousness of God IN JESUS CHRIST. We can be sucessful as we walk in the truth of God's unending unlimited love.
Amen. While we are on this earth, we can walk in the joy of our salvation. We can be joyful in this life and be happy in Jesus and what He has done for us. The blessings He gives us. We don't know what tomorrow will hold for us on earth but when we have trouble in life, we can believe what God says about us, not the bad things we feel about ourselves and others during those low times in our lives. Knowing the love of God enables us to move freely not be bound by the chains of self condemnation. There is therefore now NO condemnation to them who are IN Christ Jesus. Forgiven by God through Jesus.
Sowing and reaping . I agree with Joel O. Give your all to God and He gives us so much more than we can imagine. Put our faith in God and not our money. I agree with Joel O.
Living your best life now.... this is referring to how we can live our best life here on earth while we are here. You don't have to be miserable here in darkness and misery while we live here on planet earth. We can claim the joy God promises by faith. We can live IN JOYFUL ANTICIPATION OF Heaven. When can we be joyful? NOW. And yes, God blesses His kids abundantly. So sad that people think being poor gains a special spiritual mark as if they could gain spirituality by their works of the flesh. "Look at me I'm humble....?
" Boasting comes in many forms., rich people boast and so do poor people. Man knows how to do that boasting stuff on any level. That's humanity for you.Will hating yourself glorify God? Or does the Lord tell us to love others as we love ourselves?
how can u love others if you don't know how to accept and love yourself? Does God love us? yes. Should we hate what God loves? no. It is important to understand the love of God and live IN His love. We being evil do we know how to give good gifts? How much MORE than does your Father in heaven. Amen. Thank You Father for blessing me every day with the joyful knowledge you love me and are taking care of me. Thank You Father. Amen.
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Honestly, I see red flags at every 'megachurch'. There is no possibility of knowing the man who is spoon-feeding the word to people...if he's even doing that. I don't watch Joel Osteen, but I know that I hear that he is pretty much a motivational speaker, moreso than a preacher.
Here's the deal: If someone can sit in church day in and day out and never examine their life, go on with life as usual, and never seek change, they are in grave danger. We are not called to fix others, we are called to be like Christ and that means repentance and change and turning away from sin. If that isn't happening in your church and no one truly knows who you are, then you need to run as fast as you can from that place and seek a house of God that truly speaks truth and sound doctrine.
I have a Joel Osteen book sitting to my right under a pile of other books. I received it free. I have yet to read it. I don't put much stock into mega-preachers. I think that once a church gets so big that the pastor is a celebrity and never interacts with anyone but his elite, it is no longer relevant.
Now, is it a bad thing to see Joel speak? I'd say no. He does have positive things to say. Just don't expect to be moved to repentance. Rather, expect to leave with warm fuzzies and feel-goods on your shoulder. This isn't a bad thing. Motivational and charismatic speakers make thousands of dollars to make this happen. It doesn't mean it's sinful. I just don't consider him a preacher.
Here's the deal: If someone can sit in church day in and day out and never examine their life, go on with life as usual, and never seek change, they are in grave danger. We are not called to fix others, we are called to be like Christ and that means repentance and change and turning away from sin. If that isn't happening in your church and no one truly knows who you are, then you need to run as fast as you can from that place and seek a house of God that truly speaks truth and sound doctrine.
I have a Joel Osteen book sitting to my right under a pile of other books. I received it free. I have yet to read it. I don't put much stock into mega-preachers. I think that once a church gets so big that the pastor is a celebrity and never interacts with anyone but his elite, it is no longer relevant.
Now, is it a bad thing to see Joel speak? I'd say no. He does have positive things to say. Just don't expect to be moved to repentance. Rather, expect to leave with warm fuzzies and feel-goods on your shoulder. This isn't a bad thing. Motivational and charismatic speakers make thousands of dollars to make this happen. It doesn't mean it's sinful. I just don't consider him a preacher.
K
KittenofMelchisedek
Guest
So I say that to expect suffering as a Christian, and now I'm (according to your unkind judgments) a Gnostic (do you even know what that is?) and apparently I'm ignorant of scriptures too, well thanks for your measure - keep your eye out for the measure you get in return, and thanks for making it easy for me to disregard everything you ever say in the future!
Why isn't it more in keeping with what God wants of us to see the good in Joel Osteen, and not judge him? He has done wonders for my daughter. He tells her that she must watch what she thinks about, to see the good. That her Lord wants good for her. Following Christ leads to all that is joy in life. Following sin leads to pain. So through Joel Osteen, she is growing in the Lord.
We can find judgments in almost anyone, we are all so imperfect. Why not see the good?
God tells us what to watch for. Watch for love, it expresses Christ. Watch that they accept Christ as a savior.
I am doing a very intense, indepth study of scripture. I need, oh how I need, someone who will study this with me so we can talk about if it is accurate or not. I am turned down by every single person, at least 20 I have approached. "it takes intelligence, I don't have that' "I am too busy" "it includes OT, I don't study OT" "I don't think this agrees with how I see scripture" "just read Galatians not any more is needed". No one I know is ready for this study, they can not use it. I thank the Lord that there are people ready to use what Joel has to say. He has love. He accepts Christ.
It is not right for us to judge.
We can find judgments in almost anyone, we are all so imperfect. Why not see the good?
God tells us what to watch for. Watch for love, it expresses Christ. Watch that they accept Christ as a savior.
I am doing a very intense, indepth study of scripture. I need, oh how I need, someone who will study this with me so we can talk about if it is accurate or not. I am turned down by every single person, at least 20 I have approached. "it takes intelligence, I don't have that' "I am too busy" "it includes OT, I don't study OT" "I don't think this agrees with how I see scripture" "just read Galatians not any more is needed". No one I know is ready for this study, they can not use it. I thank the Lord that there are people ready to use what Joel has to say. He has love. He accepts Christ.
It is not right for us to judge.
Im sure nobody would question that Joel is helping your daughter and many others with his teachings.
I would argue that christians have the right to judge a preacher on what they preach in regards to whether they choose to attend that church or not. Unfortunately , Joel has made himself a public figure which opens him up to being criticized by christians that would have no business in attending his church anyway.
I know I could have articulated my words into a more pleasing way, but I did not... I apologize for the offence...