It’s relevant but not as something to be observed because the old contract was not designed for individuals living in a world held captive under Satan… But it’s relevant because through the laws one can learn more about God’s nature… I love the old covenant and if I was living in those days I would be inching as close to the altar as possible. But we have a greater covenant now. Now I can read the Old Testament from a slave labor camp and at the same time be within the real Holy of Holies in the very presence of God… this is the New Covenant…. New because it’s not to be used in conjunction with the old but the old can still be loved because you can read the old securely from within the very throne room of God the Father.
BREAKING COVENANT
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It’s relevant but not as something to be observed because the old contract was not designed for individuals living in a world held captive under Satan… But it’s relevant because through the laws one can learn more about God’s nature… I love the old covenant and if I was living in those days I would be inching as close to the altar as possible. But we have a greater covenant now. Now I can read the Old Testament from a slave labor camp and at the same time be within the real Holy of Holies in the very presence of God… this is the New Covenant…. New because it’s not to be used in conjunction with the old but the old can still be loved because you can read the old securely from within the very throne room of God the Father.
you have no idea what you are talking about... to judge people as "lukewarm" because they don't keep the Sabbath is the same arrogance displayed by your forefathers... the Pharisees... they were elitists just like you and puffed themselves up because they observed things better than everyone else including the Lord.
K
Karraster
Guest
Not meant to say you are lukewarm, the position in the middle is lukewarm and obviously you do not fit that category. I don't judge you, I haven't called you a derogatory name of any sort. Coincidentally, it was after observing various posts on CC that helped lead me in a better direction. Some are quick to judge, some are loving. I want to be in the loving camp.
Not meant to say you are lukewarm, the position in the middle is lukewarm and obviously you do not fit that category. I don't judge you, I haven't called you a derogatory name of any sort. Coincidentally, it was after observing various posts on CC that helped lead me in a better direction. Some are quick to judge, some are loving. I want to be in the loving camp.
I apologize for my misunderstanding
K
Karraster
Guest
Agreed in all aspects but one. The wine in the old is still good for consumption. It's the skins that are shot not being about to hold the new. The individual drinks both. The covenants are filled with God's words, the wine. The wineskins are the agreements that were broken, but the Words are still valid. It's like a breach of contract, not by God but by man. The contents are not to be separated. Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. If the old were thrown away then all the teachings of Jesus before His death would mean nothing. It all works together as one major plan.
Leviticus 26:9-12 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
This scripture is in an old covenant that says the new will come. Take it away and that old covenant cannot establish the new through Christ because there's nothing left to fulfill. It all works together.
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K
Karraster
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Matthew 13:
51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. 52Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord. 52Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
You’re pulling the wineskin parable out of context and using it to back up you’re make-believe contract. Jesus was not talking about the old and new covenants when He was talking about the wineskins. He said that parable after he encountered John’s disciples. The new wineskins were the disciples who followed Christ who didn’t follow (drink) any other teachings or follow any other teachers before Christ therefore they were like new. And the new wine was Christ.
The old wineskins were the disciples who followed (drank) the teachings of John and the old wine was John and his teachings (in this example the teaching of regular fasting which is also what the Pharisees taught).
John’s disciples (old wineskins) preferred the old wine (following John). That’s why Christ said “no one having drunk the old wine (following John and the Pharisee’s) desires the new (following Christ) for he says, the old (John and the Pharisee’s) is better.”. And that’s what John’s disciples thought. They preferred to follow John (the old wine) instead of Christ (the new wine).
And according to Christ those who drink the old prefer the old and don’t want the new. You are saying that one can drink both. Well then you disagree with Christ and you are a perfect example of what Christ is teaching because you prefer the old and cannot receive the new.
Yes… no offense but according to Christ you are an old shot wineskin and unable to hold the new because you prefer the old.
Not according to Christ teachings. Christ said that “…no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says, ‘The old is better.” And that statement you made “The individual drinks both” is a clear demonstration of your rejection of the new wine (Christ) because there’s nowhere Christ mentioned about drinking both. If the one having drunk the old doesn't desire the new then likewise the one having drunk the new doesn't desire the old.
That is not what Christ was talking about in the wineskin parable. But what you are saying is totally against Christ’s teaching. You’re saying that the old and the new wine skins have the same wine. This is stuff you’re just making up to back up you’re make-believe covenant… which is your version of a patched together old and new wine skin containing some old and new wine. You are a perfect example of someone who is unable to receive only the new wine (Christ).
The old is for the old. The new is for the new. You cannot understand because you are a wineskin made up of stitched together pieces of old and new skins that are now pulling away at the seams and leaking a mixture of old and new wine made of grapes that that you picked from your own vineyard.
The old wineskins were the disciples who followed (drank) the teachings of John and the old wine was John and his teachings (in this example the teaching of regular fasting which is also what the Pharisees taught).
John’s disciples (old wineskins) preferred the old wine (following John). That’s why Christ said “no one having drunk the old wine (following John and the Pharisee’s) desires the new (following Christ) for he says, the old (John and the Pharisee’s) is better.”. And that’s what John’s disciples thought. They preferred to follow John (the old wine) instead of Christ (the new wine).
And according to Christ those who drink the old prefer the old and don’t want the new. You are saying that one can drink both. Well then you disagree with Christ and you are a perfect example of what Christ is teaching because you prefer the old and cannot receive the new.
Yes… no offense but according to Christ you are an old shot wineskin and unable to hold the new because you prefer the old.
Not according to Christ teachings. Christ said that “…no one, having drunk old wine, immediately desires new; for he says, ‘The old is better.” And that statement you made “The individual drinks both” is a clear demonstration of your rejection of the new wine (Christ) because there’s nowhere Christ mentioned about drinking both. If the one having drunk the old doesn't desire the new then likewise the one having drunk the new doesn't desire the old.
That is not what Christ was talking about in the wineskin parable. But what you are saying is totally against Christ’s teaching. You’re saying that the old and the new wine skins have the same wine. This is stuff you’re just making up to back up you’re make-believe covenant… which is your version of a patched together old and new wine skin containing some old and new wine. You are a perfect example of someone who is unable to receive only the new wine (Christ).
The old is for the old. The new is for the new. You cannot understand because you are a wineskin made up of stitched together pieces of old and new skins that are now pulling away at the seams and leaking a mixture of old and new wine made of grapes that that you picked from your own vineyard.
K
Karraster
Guest
K
Karraster
Guest
[SUP]34 [/SUP]All these things Yeshua said to the crowds in parables; indeed, he said nothing to them without using a parable. [SUP]35 [/SUP]This was to fulfill what had been spoken through the prophet,
“I will open my mouth in parables,
I will say what has been hidden since the creation of the universe.”[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Then he left the crowds and went into the house. His talmidim approached him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.” [SUP]37 [/SUP]He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man; [SUP]38 [/SUP]the field is the world. As for the good seed, these are the people who belong to the Kingdom; and the weeds are the people who belong to the Evil One. [SUP]39 [/SUP]The enemy who sows them is the Adversary, the harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. [SUP]40 [/SUP]Just as the weeds are collected and burned up in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. [SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out of his Kingdom all the things that cause people to sin and all the people who are far from Torah; [SUP]42 [/SUP]and they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where people will wail and grind their teeth. [SUP]43 [/SUP]Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let him hear!
[SUP]44 [/SUP]“The Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in a field. A man found it, hid it again, then in great joy went and sold everything he owned, and bought that field.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]“Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a merchant on the lookout for fine pearls. [SUP]46 [/SUP]On finding one very valuable pearl he went away, sold everything he owned and bought it.
“I will open my mouth in parables,
I will say what has been hidden since the creation of the universe.”[SUP][a][/SUP]
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Then he left the crowds and went into the house. His talmidim approached him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.” [SUP]37 [/SUP]He answered, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man; [SUP]38 [/SUP]the field is the world. As for the good seed, these are the people who belong to the Kingdom; and the weeds are the people who belong to the Evil One. [SUP]39 [/SUP]The enemy who sows them is the Adversary, the harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. [SUP]40 [/SUP]Just as the weeds are collected and burned up in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. [SUP]41 [/SUP]The Son of Man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out of his Kingdom all the things that cause people to sin and all the people who are far from Torah; [SUP]42 [/SUP]and they will throw them into the fiery furnace, where people will wail and grind their teeth. [SUP]43 [/SUP]Then the righteous will shine forth like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let him hear!
[SUP]44 [/SUP]“The Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden in a field. A man found it, hid it again, then in great joy went and sold everything he owned, and bought that field.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]“Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a merchant on the lookout for fine pearls. [SUP]46 [/SUP]On finding one very valuable pearl he went away, sold everything he owned and bought it.
That's not mean... that's the truth. You really don't study Christ. He would say it like it is. Dignitaries in the religious community would invite Him into their own homes to dine and he would tell it like it is right at their own dinner tables. If you mix the old with the new then you are an old and new wineskin. He called John's disciples old wineskins... what would He call someone who proclaimed that you need the old with the new to be saved?
Dr. H. Clay Trumbull (1830-1903) studied extensively about the covenants and the covenant mindset, and fortunately, shared the findings with those who would hear. He writes much more eloquently than we are accustomed to these days, but he says the following in essence: When God created man, the one vital ingredient necessary for man’s happiness was “trustful surrender of his whole being to the willing and working of God,” but once sin entered that was destroyed. Consequently, man feared God, tried to hide from Him, no longer knew or trusted God as he had before. From the very beginning, God’s plan has been to share not just the blessings of being in Covenant but Covenant friendship with us. All God wanted was for man to believe in Him, then trust, love, and communication would naturally follow. And it did…until sin came. But man could not effect his own salvation to restore the relationship with God he had known before the fall and it could only be accomplished by faith. From “Covenant God” by Dr. Trumbull:“Salvation could only be by faith: God restoring the life man had lost; man in faith yielding himself to God's work and will. The first great work of God with man was to get him to believe. This work cost God more care and time and patience than we can easily conceive. All the dealings with individual men, and with the people of Israel, had just this one object, to teach men to trust Him. Where He found faith He could do anything. Nothing dishonored and grieved Him so much as unbelief. Unbelief was the root of disobedience and every sin; it made it impossible for God to do His work. The one thing God sought to waken in men by promise and threatening, by mercy and judgment, was faith… Oh that we knew how God longs that we should trust Him, and how surely His every promise must be fulfilled to those who do so! Oh that we knew how it is owing to nothing but our unbelief that we cannot enter into the possession of God's promises, and that God cannot-yes, cannot-do His mighty works in us, and for us, and through us! Oh that we knew how one of the surest remedies for our unbelief-the divinely chosen cure for it-is the Covenant into which God has entered with us!… No wonder that, where that Covenant, with its wonderful promises, is so little thought of, its plea for an abounding and unhesitating confidence in God so little understood, its claim upon the faithfulness of the Omnipotent God so little tested; no wonder that Christian life should miss the joy and the strength, the holiness and the heavenliness which God meant and so clearly promised that it should have.”
K
Karraster
Guest
Just-us-2 that was beautiful! It means so much to me to know beyond any doubt that our Father is true! Why would anyone want to think otherwise? For the longest time I believed the reasoning that none of it mattered anymore, I was blind. I was overjoyed to discover the truth! And in discovering that truth everything else made sense. If He said it, count on it. It is everlasting, and nobody will ever deceive me again about that!
I found a site that lists 6 covenants, and I think it's a good piece of information. I enjoyed to read it, it is uplifting and encouraging, shows how patient, loving and kind our Maker is.
thanks again for this thread,
The Seven Everlasting Covenants / September/October 2005 | Lion and Lamb Ministries
I found a site that lists 6 covenants, and I think it's a good piece of information. I enjoyed to read it, it is uplifting and encouraging, shows how patient, loving and kind our Maker is.
thanks again for this thread,
The Seven Everlasting Covenants / September/October 2005 | Lion and Lamb Ministries
[h=1]New Wine and Old:
Christianity and Traditional Judaism[/h]by
Jonathan Israel Strider
THE PARABLES OF THE CLOTH AND THE WINESKIN
And what of the many Israelites who do believe the Christian assertion concerning the messianic prophet? These people tend to be seen as religiously incorrect by members of both faiths. The Synagogue says that if one accepts the assertion that Jesus is the messiah, then one is not a Jew. The Church (how about some, or many churches?) says that if one keeps the Laws of Moses, than one is not a Christian. And yet, Jesus was a well schooled Jew, who preached fundamental Judaism! Allow me to use Jesus' parables, or analogies to illustrate this point.
The Church, the congregation of Christians, is metaphorically like a new wineskin. The Newcovenant is like new wine. Similarly, the Synagogue, the congregation of Jews, is like an old wineskin. The Abrahamic covenant, including the Mosaic Law, is like old wine.
Just as new wine will expand and stretch the wineskin as it ages and ferments, so the traditions of the New covenant will do within the church. This has been evidenced through the almost two millennia of church history. The traditions of the Abrahamic covenant have already done this within the congregation of Israel. The rebelliousness, the trial-and-error learning of a young people has already run it's course. What is left is a mature, sedate people, with several millennia of tradition to flavor and color their culture. Much like a fine, aged wine. If the New covenant were instilled into the synagogue, the growth of it's new traditions would press against the limits of the established traditions.
Another analogy might be to compare the New covenant to a new patch of cloth that is intended to be sewn onto an older garment. The garment represents the established traditions of the Synagogue. This analogy anticipates that when the new cloth is washed and worn it will shrink and pull away from the cloth of the garment, thus making a mess of both pieces of fabric.
The assertion in this analogy is that if the New covenant were applied to the traditional Synagogue, then as the newer covenant engaged it's own traditions, there would be a "tearing away" from the older establishment. There are similarities in the revolutionary processes of many colonies becoming nations.
Let it suffice that the older garment is adequate to it's wearer and the newer cloth can be made into a fine garment for it's wearer. Similarly, just as the older wine is preferred by the mature palate, so the Abrahamic covenant is preferred by the traditional Synagogue. And just as the newer wine, with it's brighter color and aroma is preferred by the youthful palate, so the New covenant is preferred by the creatively evangelical modern church.
To the Christian, I say, do not ever say that there is fault with the Abrahamic covenant. That would be incorrect and in opposition to the stated opinions of God Almighty and of the teacher, Jesus Christ. To the Jew I say, do not accuse the New covenant of being at fault. There are many, many people who have had very real, personal and public experiences of miraculous unlikeliness, based on their dedication to Jesus Christ as Messiah.
The two covenants are, at the same time very much alike and very different. Forgive my amorphism, but the relationship is similar to that of a father and a son. In this analogy, the son wants very much to be just like his father. He upholds his father's doctrine with fervor. Yet he is determined to be his own man. In his youthful vigor he finds new ways to accomplish his father's goals. And this does not invalidate either the father or the son. I think most of us are familiar with this. It's one of the fundamental lessons we learn in the school of life.
The Abrahamic covenant is based on law. And within it's tenants, one can find a "Spirit of the Law," as the underlying tide of it's premises. This underlying tide commands love for God and for fellow man. The New covenant is also based on Spirit. And, within it's tenants one can find a "Law of the Spirit," as the overlying tide of it's premises. This overlying tide also commands love for God and for fellow man.
Put another way the Abrahamic covenant describes the forest by telling of the trees, whereas the New covenant describes the trees by telling of the forest. We're being told of the same forest and the same trees here, people!
It is very common that when two people argue a point, they are both asserting the same point, using different terms and / or different ideologies. Only when each of them stops and listens to each other will they realize the commonality of their assertions. Additionally, each must begin with the most general assertions and eschew naming as tantamount, the specific details until the general terms are assimilated by the other.
In short, pay attention and don't make mountains out of molehills! It is also very common that people refuse to listen if they are convinced, a priori, that the "opponent" is wrong. This is unfortunate.
Christianity and Traditional Judaism[/h]by
Jonathan Israel Strider
THE PARABLES OF THE CLOTH AND THE WINESKIN
He told them this parable: "No one tears a patch from a new garment and sews it on an old one. If he does, he will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old. And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says, 'The old is better.'" Luke 5:36-39 NIV
In the Gospel of Luke, chapter five, Jesus is quoted as telling the parables of the wineskins and of the cloth. These are symbolic of a very old standoff between traditional Judaism and Christianity. Though both faiths worship God the Creator and King of the Universe, there is dissension concerning the mystical nature of that God. Though both faiths profess the coming of a messianic prophet, there is dissension concerning the identity of that prophet. Though both faiths profess the personal involvement between God and individuals concerning the individual's salvation from unrighteous behavior and thinking. There is dissension concerning the process of obtaining that salvation. And what of the many Israelites who do believe the Christian assertion concerning the messianic prophet? These people tend to be seen as religiously incorrect by members of both faiths. The Synagogue says that if one accepts the assertion that Jesus is the messiah, then one is not a Jew. The Church (how about some, or many churches?) says that if one keeps the Laws of Moses, than one is not a Christian. And yet, Jesus was a well schooled Jew, who preached fundamental Judaism! Allow me to use Jesus' parables, or analogies to illustrate this point.
The Church, the congregation of Christians, is metaphorically like a new wineskin. The Newcovenant is like new wine. Similarly, the Synagogue, the congregation of Jews, is like an old wineskin. The Abrahamic covenant, including the Mosaic Law, is like old wine.
Just as new wine will expand and stretch the wineskin as it ages and ferments, so the traditions of the New covenant will do within the church. This has been evidenced through the almost two millennia of church history. The traditions of the Abrahamic covenant have already done this within the congregation of Israel. The rebelliousness, the trial-and-error learning of a young people has already run it's course. What is left is a mature, sedate people, with several millennia of tradition to flavor and color their culture. Much like a fine, aged wine. If the New covenant were instilled into the synagogue, the growth of it's new traditions would press against the limits of the established traditions.
Another analogy might be to compare the New covenant to a new patch of cloth that is intended to be sewn onto an older garment. The garment represents the established traditions of the Synagogue. This analogy anticipates that when the new cloth is washed and worn it will shrink and pull away from the cloth of the garment, thus making a mess of both pieces of fabric.
The assertion in this analogy is that if the New covenant were applied to the traditional Synagogue, then as the newer covenant engaged it's own traditions, there would be a "tearing away" from the older establishment. There are similarities in the revolutionary processes of many colonies becoming nations.
Let it suffice that the older garment is adequate to it's wearer and the newer cloth can be made into a fine garment for it's wearer. Similarly, just as the older wine is preferred by the mature palate, so the Abrahamic covenant is preferred by the traditional Synagogue. And just as the newer wine, with it's brighter color and aroma is preferred by the youthful palate, so the New covenant is preferred by the creatively evangelical modern church.
To the Christian, I say, do not ever say that there is fault with the Abrahamic covenant. That would be incorrect and in opposition to the stated opinions of God Almighty and of the teacher, Jesus Christ. To the Jew I say, do not accuse the New covenant of being at fault. There are many, many people who have had very real, personal and public experiences of miraculous unlikeliness, based on their dedication to Jesus Christ as Messiah.
The two covenants are, at the same time very much alike and very different. Forgive my amorphism, but the relationship is similar to that of a father and a son. In this analogy, the son wants very much to be just like his father. He upholds his father's doctrine with fervor. Yet he is determined to be his own man. In his youthful vigor he finds new ways to accomplish his father's goals. And this does not invalidate either the father or the son. I think most of us are familiar with this. It's one of the fundamental lessons we learn in the school of life.
The Abrahamic covenant is based on law. And within it's tenants, one can find a "Spirit of the Law," as the underlying tide of it's premises. This underlying tide commands love for God and for fellow man. The New covenant is also based on Spirit. And, within it's tenants one can find a "Law of the Spirit," as the overlying tide of it's premises. This overlying tide also commands love for God and for fellow man.
Put another way the Abrahamic covenant describes the forest by telling of the trees, whereas the New covenant describes the trees by telling of the forest. We're being told of the same forest and the same trees here, people!
It is very common that when two people argue a point, they are both asserting the same point, using different terms and / or different ideologies. Only when each of them stops and listens to each other will they realize the commonality of their assertions. Additionally, each must begin with the most general assertions and eschew naming as tantamount, the specific details until the general terms are assimilated by the other.
In short, pay attention and don't make mountains out of molehills! It is also very common that people refuse to listen if they are convinced, a priori, that the "opponent" is wrong. This is unfortunate.
If any might not know that the covenant of God will be exacted during the millennial reign think again.
Psalm 89:28-35 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
[SUP]31 [/SUP]If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then will I visit their transgression with the **rod,and their iniquity with *stripes.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
1 Peter 2:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose *stripes ye were healed.
Isaiah 11:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And there shall come forth a *rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the *rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Revelation 12:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a *rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Revelation 19:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a ***sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a *rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Wow...this is related to wine...how about that!
Revelation 2:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the ***sharp sword with two edges;
Think about the sword having two edges rather than just one. I see it as two cutting edges representing old and new in one piece of equipment. Then compare with these verses. This is after the Assyrian capture, and is after David, and not with Moses or Joshua written 600BC.
Ezekiel 37:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
Ezekiel 37:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
Hebrews 4:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and ***sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Isaiah 59:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
Psalm 89:28-35 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
[SUP]31 [/SUP]If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Then will I visit their transgression with the **rod,and their iniquity with *stripes.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.
1 Peter 2:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose *stripes ye were healed.
Isaiah 11:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]And there shall come forth a *rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the *rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Revelation 12:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a *rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Revelation 19:15 (KJV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a ***sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a *rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Wow...this is related to wine...how about that!
Revelation 2:12 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the ***sharp sword with two edges;
Think about the sword having two edges rather than just one. I see it as two cutting edges representing old and new in one piece of equipment. Then compare with these verses. This is after the Assyrian capture, and is after David, and not with Moses or Joshua written 600BC.
Ezekiel 37:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
Ezekiel 37:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
Hebrews 4:11-12 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and ***sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Isaiah 59:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.
K
Karraster
Guest
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and ***sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
That verse struck fear in me as a child. Come to think on it, still does!!
So many sayings are rooted in the Word, such as "cutting a deal" .."not worth your salt" so forth. I didn't know until this thread they both had to do with covenant. wow
That verse struck fear in me as a child. Come to think on it, still does!!
So many sayings are rooted in the Word, such as "cutting a deal" .."not worth your salt" so forth. I didn't know until this thread they both had to do with covenant. wow
Matthew 13:33-34 (KJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP]Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto *leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Psalm 78:1-8 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.
The following is the 7 week feast of Pentecost (Shavuot) with fiustfruits.
Leviticus 23:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with *leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD.
Exodus 34:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
The covenant is in place from the beginning to the end. These are the 144,000 that are a vital key to the harvest. This relates to the feast of weeks. Count them a groomsmen preparing for the wedding feast.
Revelation 14:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
C
chubbena
Guest
1. 25 years ago there was a no sunday shopping law in Canada in honor of the Lord. Canadians enjoyed a laid back lifestyle. Life back then was simple. It was not a burden and everyone (of course not including law keepers, ministers and the like) got to rest one in seven. Then businessmen lobbied the government to remove the law with poor excuses like convenience and economy. The society bought the lie and we all were kidnapped to Babylon, whether one liked it or not.
2. 250 years ago Christians taught observance of the Sabbath - whether one conceived it as Saturday or Sunday.
3. 2500 years ago the law was taught. No questions asked.
I don't know what you are talking about Sabbath keepers are "enforcing" those same laws here. No one here or anywhere enforces or has the authority to enforce such laws.
If you are concerned about those who cannot enjoy the day off. Pray for them and if you have the authority, do something. If you have the power, relieve the enslaved. At least you've got it right here - those who can't enjoy a day off is enslaved!
Telling Sabbath keepers off could not make them any better.
[h=2]Summary[/h]The purpose for this thread, like most others I start, is to cause Christians to realize that a profession of faith in Christ with no obligations or responsibilities on our part is foolish. It is one of those things about which one could say, “Wake up and smell the coffee!”
It has become abundantly clear to me that living outside the requirements of Covenant with Almighty God is equivalent to “holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.” 2 Timothy 3:5 (NAS). We have no excuse for failing to fulfill our part of the Covenant because “The secret of the LORD is for those who fear Him, And He will make them know His covenant.” Psalm 25:14 (NAS) and "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent.” Acts 17:30 (NAS)
Think about how far the obligations of being a party to Covenant reach, even in secular history, let alone what God requires – we are bound by the nature of Covenant to bless one another because we are not in Covenant with God alone. The other parties are all other Christians everywhere. I don’t know about you, but I have just been convicted of being critical of others…and not just the unbelievers….
“So keep the words of this covenant to do them, that you may prosper in all that you do.“ Deuteronomy 29:9 (NAS)
It has become abundantly clear to me that living outside the requirements of Covenant with Almighty God is equivalent to “holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.” 2 Timothy 3:5 (NAS). We have no excuse for failing to fulfill our part of the Covenant because “The secret of the LORD is for those who fear Him, And He will make them know His covenant.” Psalm 25:14 (NAS) and "Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent.” Acts 17:30 (NAS)
Think about how far the obligations of being a party to Covenant reach, even in secular history, let alone what God requires – we are bound by the nature of Covenant to bless one another because we are not in Covenant with God alone. The other parties are all other Christians everywhere. I don’t know about you, but I have just been convicted of being critical of others…and not just the unbelievers….
“So keep the words of this covenant to do them, that you may prosper in all that you do.“ Deuteronomy 29:9 (NAS)