Attack of the Judaizers

[JaumeJ]

You must be a very sad person. What has damaged you so that you harbor such disdain for me and others, it is so preeminent in your actual being?.You will remain in my prayers. I do not accuse you, your words are more than sufficient; I need not add more to them

If you can, give me a practical example of what it means to drink his blood in relationship to another believer. In other words, how is it possible for the love of God to cover a multitude of sins? How does the blood of Christ apply to that situation when your brother has failed or entered onto some form of sin in his life? Many demand repentance from the guilty party but how can repentance take place when the guilty brother does not understand what the blood has done to his sin. If Christ's shed blood was for the remission of sin then how do we cover and recover our brother through the blood of the Lamb! The blood was applied to the lintel and door post at the entrance of the dwelling place and the death angel passed over. How is the blood applied to the door of our brother's heart so that he may be safe?

 

[john832]

you sound like a foolish man john...not saying you are, saying you sound

Romans 6:1-6

King James Version (KJV)

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

if you don't feel this way.. maybe you should ask yourself why not? why don't you feel.. dead to sin through the spirit of christ, i mean the bible did say we are no longer servants of sin once we receive christ, so ask yourself why you don't feel that way, not saying it to be rude

And how is it that you know what sin is?

 

[Elin]

Not only are they the greatest, on these two hang all the Law and the Prophets.

So precisely what does Christ mean when he says, "On these two hang all the Law and the Prophets."? (Mt 22:40)

What does Paul mean when he states, "Love fulfills the whole law."? (Ro 13:10)

'Round and 'round the same bush. . .over and over again.

Not all of us are "beating around the bush", some of us realize where the quote came from and what it is associated with.

I suspect we all do.

Do you know the difference between going " 'round and' round the same bush," and
"beating around the bush"?

 

[danschance]

And yet we read...

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

I'll take inspired scripture over opinion any time.

I fail to see your point. At the death of Christ the curtain separating the Holy of Hollies was torn. That is the end of the OT. In AD 70 the entire temple was torn down and has not been rebuilt, as there is no longer a need to sacrifice animals. The New Covenant is not a matter of opinion but scriptural fact.

But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises. 7For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. Hebrews 8:6-7

 

[john832]

I fail to see your point. At the death of Christ the curtain separating the Holy of Hollies was torn. That is the end of the OT. In AD 70 the entire temple was torn down and has not been rebuilt, as there is no longer a need to sacrifice animals. The New Covenant is not a matter of opinion but scriptural fact.

Well yeaah, (I am striving mightily to get that tonal inflection on this keyboard but so far it has eluded me) the point is to whom the New Covenant was made and wha tthe New Covenant is.

 

[Elin]

If all our Savior did was keep the law perfectly, then what do you think was happening the three days between the time He was crucified and His resurrection?
That would make the work of Christ only so we could sin freely.

I don't think I am following you on this.

How did you get from "Christ keeping the law perfectly" to "us sinning freely"?

Could you connect those dots for me?

Thanks.

 

[jag1977]

So....If I go today and curse my neighbors then build a metal cow in my yard and idolize it then last after my neighbors wife what will happen to me? I will live on and by a few days millions who did not sin will perish. Really? Stop preaching false doctrine. Stop confusing people. No one is sinning. This thread is completely outside of God's word. Stop preaching what has been taught. The only true word comes from yourself. Just know the first part of revelations that describes the beast and the saints......


13*And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2*And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3*And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4*And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5*And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6*And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7*And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8*And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9*If any man have an ear, let him hear.

""""""10*He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints."""""""""""

 

[Elin]

The apostles wrote the NT in Greek.

Everything else is either a translation of the Greek, or a mistranslation of the Greek.

Stop setting the Scriptures against themselves, the OT against the NT (Mt 22:37-40),

and the NT (Mt 5:17) against itself (Heb 7:18-19), because of your lack of understanding them,

and interpret them all in the light of the revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2)

through the NT apostolic writers, in the Greek. (Edits in blue.)

Stop disregarding scriptures that don't fit into your preconceived ideas.

Assertions without demonstration are without merit.

 

[Josh321]

And how is it that you know what sin is?

[h=3]Romans 7:7[/h]King James Version (KJV)

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

 

[Josh321]

I don't think I am following you on this.

How did you get from "Christ keeping the law perfectly" to "us sinning freely"?

Could you connect those dots for me?

Thanks.

loool.. Elin.. this is what they think, they think grace is a get out of jail card to freely sin lmao, so in other words they call people under grace lawless sinners because we say we are not under the law but under christ

 

[danschance]

loool.. Elin.. this is what they think, they think grace is a get out of jail card to freely sin lmao, so in other words they call people under grace lawless sinners because we say we are not under the law but under christ

Exactly. There was a radical Judaizer who claimed I was lawless. Which is a ridicules ignorant claim.

 

[RedTent]

Exactly. There was a radical Judaizer who claimed I was lawless. Which is a ridicules ignorant claim.

Now wait a minute. I am a radical Judaizer. I claim you are believing it is right to go by what you accept from accepting Jesus, from the Holy Spirit in you, without checking it with the law in scripture and that is a wrong teaching. It leads to the church not standing on the law as right. It leads to the extremist on your side accepting lawlessness. I don't think this idea follows scripture.

People on my side don't make people judgments, we make judgments about what scripture says. It is people on your side who make the people judgments.

 

[Josh321]

Exactly. There was a radical Judaizer who claimed I was lawless. Which is a ridicules ignorant claim.

it's impossible, don't get me wrong i understand why they are saying it, and why they can't understand it

[h=3]1 Corinthians 2:14[/h]King James Version (KJV)

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

they can't visually see and understand what we mean... only by salvation one would understand i mean the process of experiencing this


[h=3]2 Corinthians 5:17[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.


did you know the time christ lived in is completely parallel to this generation? i'm show you


[h=3]Mark 6:2-3[/h]King James Version (KJV)

2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.


is it not the same thing?

 

[Elin]

And the scriptures say...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Now, what does Paul say the nature that resides in us is really like?

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So Paul knows what holiness is, the issue is not knowing what to do, but the power to practice it.

And this...

Jas 4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

Yes, the human spirit (Ge 2:7) can lust.

The issue is not one of knowing, but one of power to do what one knows in the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit gives the love, which of its holy nature knows how to love,
it doesn't need written regulation to know what love is,
anymore than to know how to breathe.

But the practice of what it knows must grow by the power of grace.

Our human spirit is not automatically made perfect upon conversion. Conversion is a process...

It's not about conversion.

It's about knowledge, like the knowledge of breathing, and the power to practice it.
The knowledge is given, the practice must grow in the power of it by grace.

If we are immediately a perfectly loving, wonderful individual at conversion, why do we need to GROW in grace and knowledge?

We grow by grace in the power to practice what we know, and we grow in the knowledge of Jesus Christ personally.

 

[danschance]

Now wait a minute. I am a radical Judaizer. I claim you are believing it is right to go by what you accept from accepting Jesus, from the Holy Spirit in you, without checking it with the law in scripture and that is a wrong teaching. It leads to the church not standing on the law as right. It leads to the extremist on your side accepting lawlessness. I don't think this idea follows scripture.

People on my side don't make people judgments, we make judgments about what scripture says. It is people on your side who make the people judgments.

That was not a reference to you. It was a reference to a man who posted a few times on this thread. He felt he was superior for keeping the law and said I was lawless. He was judgmental and spiteful of others. I wont say more about this person as It is not my intention to dialog with him but to point to the kinds of junk I have seen.

 

[damombomb]

I remember as a kid going to church, your going to hell for this and that and so on. Then i finally found someone who had a
relationship with Jesus and was taught to come as you are and the Holy Spirit does the rest through preaching and so on.
Not by following a bunch of if you do this or that. It is called grace and grace is what led me to him. Should i sin, no, why
because i fear the Lord and want to be with him, i have liberty in him, i am free from the law of sin and death. Now i have
a relationship with him, because he through his blood made a way for us to enter in the holiest of holies. Thank you Jesus!

 

[Elin]

You have ignored an improtant part of this passage...

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

You have ignored the fact that the New Covenant is made with Israel and Judah. Wanna be part of the New Covenant?

WOW!

And herein is the magnitude of your setting the Scriptures against themselves.

Jesus disagrees with you (Lk 22:20), I am in the New Covenant.

The NT writers disagree with you, I am in the New Covenant (Heb 9:15, 8:6; 2Co 3:6).

And herein is demonstrated the magnitude of your contra-NT-spoken-by-the-Son-in-these-last-days (Heb 1:1-2)-through-the-NT-writers theology.

 

[Rockbysea]

[SUP]10 [/SUP]At that time many will be trapped into betraying and hating each other, [SUP]11 [/SUP]many false prophets will appear and fool many people; [SUP]12 [/SUP]and many people’s love will grow cold because of increased distance from Torah. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But whoever holds out till the end will be delivered. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And this Good News about the Kingdom will be announced throughout the whole world as a witness to all the Goyim. It is then that the end will come.

Talk about rewriting the NT into a freak religion:

People's love will grow cold because of their increased distance from the old covenant laws... but whoever keeps the laws of the old covenant with all it's Sabbaths and ordinances till the end will be saved.... And this good news about mandatory observance of the old covenant laws will be announced to the whole world as a witness to all gentiles and then the end will come.

Pretty sick stuff.

 

[Elin]

Sounds like the problem is that you don't want to do what God says to do...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Absolutely! The unregenerate mind is spiritually powerless.

 

[Elin]

And this homespun philosophy negates theses scriptural passages?

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 2:5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

You forgot Mt 22:37-40.

And again...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul's experience was different than yours. I gotta go with Paul on this one.

"Experience" by its nature is about practice, not knowledge.

The Holy Spirit gives us to know how to love, just as we know how to breathe, without written regulations.

It is the practice of it that takes growing into by the power of grace.

Never mind that the two are a summation of the Ten Commandments as well as the Statutes as Mat 22:37-39 show since they are a direct quote from Deut 6 and 10 and Lev 19.

And "summation" says it all. . .pun intended.