Attack of the Judaizers

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Oct 31, 2011
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Talk about rewriting the NT into a freak religion:

People's love will grow cold because of their increased distance from the old covenant laws... but whoever keeps the laws of the old covenant with all it's Sabbaths and ordinances till the end will be saved.... And this good news about mandatory observance of the old covenant laws will be announced to the whole world as a witness to all gentiles and then the end will come.

Pretty sick stuff.
What is heart breakingly sick is saying you can pick and choose from what God is saying, Your words "mandatory observance" of Christ's request to obey shows sickness, "old covenant laws" shows sickness. God made a covenant, that is a promise that keeps or the God who made it is not to be trusted. It is sick to say that scripture is split in two, we should get rid of most of what is old. When Christ replaced and updated the same ideas and made them more potent, it is sick to say we must not look into that and find out what and how Christ replaced. Saying the only way to learn about that is based on the few years the NT covers and don't listen to any of the 4,000 years telling of how it was to be is sick.

You are taking truths scripture tells us about and twisting them into sickness.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Well then, since we are deliverd from the Law, explain why we need a Savior
Are you confused about the chronological order and relation of the death of Christ to the law?

Since we are delivered from the Law, there can be no penalty for breaking it...
"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set me free from the law of sin and death (i.e., the wages of sin is death--Ro 6:23).

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

So if someone breaks into your home, steals your possessions and kills you, what are they guilty of? Certainly not sin since...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Red herring. . .you left out 1Jn 3:5-6:

"But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin.
No one who lives in him keeps on sinning.
No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him."


And we just read that sin is not imputed when there is no Law. So, apparently they have done nothing wrong.
It's not stealing and killing that send you to eternal damnation.

Unbelief sends you to eternal damnation. Whatever laws you break are just window dressing.

Your confusion regarding the NT and the New Covenant is staggering.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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It sounds as though some believe because they have become a member of the Body of Yeshua they are instantly perfect. These folks are exceedingly misled by their self glorification, void of humility, and unable to hear reason, and they should be avoided until either they repent or go away. No, this is not a direct quote, but it is fromt he Torah of the entire Word. Beginning to reign without the King present is a thought only entertained by the enemy.
Your piety is noted.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
Christ kept all the law perfectly, not just the Sabbath, that we might be delivered from observance of the law through faith in him.
Why don't you show us that scripture?
Aw, cheese crackers! . . .enough already!

Are you accusing Christ of sin?

"We have been delivered from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." (Ro 7:6)

Only believers serve Christ (v. 4).
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Ya gotta love this one...

1Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
Almost as much as I love, "there is no God." (Ps 14:1)

Relevance?

I probably should make this reminder: I don't suffer fools lightly.

And people think He CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW.
And you think that "people think he came to destroy the law" in his commands of Mt 22:37-40.

Christ kept the Passover and instructed the disciples "this do in remembrance of me".
Someone just told you not to do this.
And the confusion just gets "worser and worser". . .beyond staggering. . .to mind-blowing.

Can you believe anyone actually thinks this?
 
M

Mastersman

Guest
U all are funny! Certainly theft and murder is a crime and a sin. I someone does this and is caught they are going to prison (hopefully) but if they repent in prison, guess hat they might be your neighbor in the hereafter. Jesus died for our sins not the local magistrate or judge.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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It is really awful for those who hate the natural branches so much as to reject all things pointing to the faith of Abraham simply because they sound "too Jewish."

Every time we come together for breaking bread in the memory of Jesus Chris Wha was called Yeshua in Hebrew, we are commemorating and reaenacting His seder,

Not quite.

We are doing it in remembrance of his death for our sin (1Co 11:25),

we are not re-enacting his death, we are participating (1Co 10:16)
in the NT sacrificial meal (Jn 6:54) corresponding to the OT sacrifical meal
where they ate of the sacrifice,

and we are proclaiming his death til he comes (1Co 11:26).

 
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Jan 19, 2013
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I hear this a lot, but no one ever shows me why Christ was lying when He said...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Because he wasn't lying.

He was giving all the truth his Father would have Israel to have until his Son died in atonement,
when eternal life would no longer be related to law keeping, but only to faith in him.
 
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W

weakness

Guest
Do the words of our Savior carry any weight here with those against the teachings of God?
[SUP]
10 [/SUP]For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death: [SUP]11 [/SUP]But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother; [SUP]13[/SUP]making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Perhaps the Word of God is of none effect through your tradition. Do you honestly expect when our Savior mentions but one of the Ten Commandments, He is saying the others, or any one of them is to no effect? Perhaps you will ammend what He says here to mean the Shabbat commandment is also null and void. Yes, tradition, tradition is your commandment, but not the Word of God, for you know what His Word says about all concerning the order of creation.
[/QUOTE Hi JaumeJ As I said before are righteousness is to exceed the righteousness of the laws written on stone. The law is not done away with,in my reading of scripture. Looking on a woman with lust in your heart is as committing the act. This is exceeding the old law, but does not make it void. Hateing your brother without cause is as murder, again it exceeds but does not cancel the law. As many as sin without the law will be judged by the law. Seems to me the law is still around. But now it is written in fleshly tables of our hearts.To be know and read of all men. With the gospel, we are born again ,adopted into God's family, grafted onto the root, which is Christ. We have and are being changed from glory to glory into God's image and some day, we shall know even as we are known. (I just wrote some of this on another thread n feel like I'm repeating myself.) God does not follow written laws to do good , he walks in love because it is his nature. it is who he is.The Holy Spirit , the spirit of Jesus dwells in our hearts by faith and it is this nature of God that is our life,or righteousness, our love,all the fruits of the Spirit of God. God has planted that seed ,his word in our Hearts in Hope that it brings forth fruit, that we grow up unto ,in, and like him. We, if the Spirit is within us, have become a law unto ourselves. Not contrary to the old law, but superseding it, fulfilling it, which was always God's intent from the beginning. The Promise to Abraham was his offspring would be as the sand of the sea. God said ,let us make man in our own image.The law was a school master to bring us to Christ and have the law written in our hearts ,to have his nature,to truly be his children. even Jesus being found in the form of God ,thought it not robbery to be equal with God, but took upon him the form of a servant. He took the lowest seat at the banquet.Cause that's what God's nature is ,a servant. But make no mistake, He is also the Lion of Judah and will return with a fiery sword ready to judge us by the words of his mouth. This thread does seem to boil down to the Sabbath though. It seems so clear to me that the Sabbath was also exceeded in the new testament.The Sabbath has always been about ceasing from ones own works. God did on the seventh day ceased fro his works, and sanctified it, or set it apart as something special.Jesus defined it a little ,he said the Sabbath was made for man ,not man for the Sabbath.He said it was fine to do Good on the Sabbath, so it is not a matter of not working or doing . It is ceasing from our OWN works ,as God did from his. Hebrews says the one day a week Sabbath was not the rest, the promise land was not the rest,What house will ye build me , or what is the place of my rest? Seeing heaven is his throne and earth his foot stool? Our Sabbath is Jesus, we cease from our own works and enter into the finished work of Christ. and the works that we do are the works of the Holy Spirit within us.To every one is given a measure of the gift of Christ ,and it is this measure we are to walk in. We have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellency of the power may be of God and not us. Christ who lives in us is our hope of glory.But we have the sentence of death in ourselves that we should not trust in our selves , but in God who raises the dead.But if the ministration of death written and engraved in stones be glorious,so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance, which glory was to be done away with . How shall not the ministration of the Spirit be rather glorious?For if that which was done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is much more glorious. We are to rest in Christ every day, that is our Sabbath now and forever. Now we are not to judge someone in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon or of the Sabbath days ,which are a shadow of things to come. But now he has raised us up together ,and made us to sit(rest) in heavenly places in Christ. This is probably getting boring. God bless you all
 
Jan 19, 2013
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So does grace give one the option of not doing these things? Someone kills you or one of your family it is still optional? If your spouse commits adultery, that's OK because it is, after all, optional. God doesn't really mind if you befoul His holy name, after all, it is optional.
You are so confused by something so simple. . .because you do not understand the OT in the light of the revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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And yet we read...

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

I'll take inspired scripture over opinion any time.
Your problem is not with "opinion," it is with Jesus in the God-breathed Scripture of Lk 22:20;
with Heb 9:15, 8:6; and with Paul in 2Co 3:6.

You've got some serious reckoning to do with the NT.
 
M

Mastersman

Guest
Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid. God died for our sins so that we would not suffer eternally for them. If our sin hurts someone there may be consequences! Remember who God loves He chastises, Paul said it is better to deliver the body to satan to be destroyed than to let the soul suffer in eternal damnation( my paraphrase). It is always dangerous to play games with God or sin. They that walk in the spirit will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
 
Sep 1, 2013
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What is heart breakingly sick is saying you can pick and choose from what God is saying, Your words "mandatory observance" of Christ's request to obey shows sickness, "old covenant laws" shows sickness. God made a covenant, that is a promise that keeps or the God who made it is not to be trusted. It is sick to say that scripture is split in two, we should get rid of most of what is old. When Christ replaced and updated the same ideas and made them more potent, it is sick to say we must not look into that and find out what and how Christ replaced. Saying the only way to learn about that is based on the few years the NT covers and don't listen to any of the 4,000 years telling of how it was to be is sick.

You are taking truths scripture tells us about and twisting them into sickness.

Your Christ is the old covenant… that’s what is sick. And your teaching that Christ requests that everybody in the world should obey the old covenant to be saved is pretty sick because for billions of people that is impossible.

When you say that Christ updated the old covenant, which many Israelites failed to keep the original even when they were a sovereign nation under God, and made it even more potent… even harder to keep and came to enforce it on all the gentiles living under Satan’s governments… this is not from Christ but it’s coming from your sick-freak doctrine of terror.

And the amazing thing about all this is the blatant hypocrisy... because you're all trying to shove down the throats of others something that you're all unable to keep.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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What is heart breakingly sick is saying you can pick and choose from what God is saying, Your words "mandatory observance" of Christ's request to obey shows sickness, "old covenant laws" shows sickness. God made a covenant, that is a promise that keeps or the God who made it is not to be trusted. It is sick to say that scripture is split in two, we should get rid of most of what is old. When Christ replaced and updated the same ideas and made them more potent, it is sick to say we must not look into that and find out what and how Christ replaced. Saying the only way to learn about that is based on the few years the NT covers and don't listen to any of the 4,000 years telling of how it was to be is sick.

You are taking truths scripture tells us about and twisting them into sickness.
I'm not sure which covenant you are talking about, the Abrahamic or the Mosaic (Sinaitic)?
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
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While Jesus was on earth before his death, he was bound to old testament law. After his death He fulfilled the law. Unfortunately you seem to imply that we should also keep the OT law. You have not mentioned the Christ fulfilled the OT law and we are now under a new covenant of grace.
I am not implying, I am emphatically stating there is much INSTRUCTIONS in the OT that is applicable for our lives today.

You mention the temple curtain covering the Holy of Holies being torn top to bottom. The lesson there is there was no ark of the covenant and Mercy Seat while Yeshua was on earth. So how did the High Priest fulfill the commandments while Christ was on earth? I am not asking for an explanation, because I know why.
 
D

danschance

Guest
Originally Posted by RedTent

It is sick to say that scripture is split in two, we should get rid of most of what is old.
We have over one thousand four hundred posts on this thread and yet you have not learned what I have said a dozen times on this thread. Yes, you might be right that it would be sick if we got rid of the OT. The good news is that has never happened! Jesus fulfilled the law and did not dismantle it. Please understand what fulfilled means, as I have mentioned it many times on this thread and on others. You are creating a straw man argument in the above post by stating things which are not so to prove it is sick. You have mis-characterized what we believe in and turned it into a sick monster. How under handed of you.

1) Christ fulfilled the law, not do away with it.(Matt 5:17-20, Gal 3:23-25)
2) We are under the law of Christ.(Gal. 6:2, 1 Cor 9:21, Mark 12:28-33)
3) We are no longer under the Mosaic law/covenant. (Romans 10:4, Gal 3:23-25, Eph. 2:15, Col. 2:16-17)

If you could understand these three things I would be a happy camper. These three things are a summary of 90% of what I have been trying to say. Please ask if you do not understand them.
 
D

danschance

Guest
I am not implying, I am emphatically stating there is much INSTRUCTIONS in the OT that is applicable for our lives today.
I never said the OT is junk. I read it and have learned by it. I love how it points to Jesus and His ministry on earth.

You mention the temple curtain covering the Holy of Holies being torn top to bottom. The lesson there is there was no ark of the covenant and Mercy Seat while Yeshua was on earth.
That is a private interpretation that I have never heard of before. The Ark of the Covenant was there.

here is what the vast magority of Christians beliueve what happened as the curtain ripped:
When Jesus died, the veil was torn, and God moved out of that place never again to dwell in a temple made with hands (Acts 17:24). God was through with that temple and its religious system, and the temple and Jerusalem were left “desolate” (destroyed by the Romans) in A.D. 70, just as Jesus prophesied inLuke 13:35. As long as the temple stood, it signified the continuation of the Old Covenant.Hebrews 9:8-9refers to the age that was passing away as the new covenant was being established (Hebrews 8:13).

Read more:What was the significance of the temple veil being torn in two when Jesus died?
So how did the High Priest fulfill the commandments while Christ was on earth? I am not asking for an explanation, because I know why.
The high preist fulfilled them as the Mosaic covenant was still in effect.
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
38
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We have over one thousand four hundred posts on this thread and yet you have not learned what I have said a dozen times on this thread. Yes, you might be right that it would be sick if we got rid of the OT. The good news is that has never happened! Jesus fulfilled the law and did not dismantle it. Please understand what fulfilled means, as I have mentioned it many times on this thread and on others. You are creating a straw man argument in the above post by stating things which are not so to prove it is sick. You have mis-characterized what we believe in and turned it into a sick monster. How under handed of you.

1) Christ fulfilled the law, not do away with it.(Matt 5:17-20, Gal 3:23-25)
2) We are under the law of Christ.(Gal. 6:2, 1 Cor 9:21, Mark 12:28-33)
3) We are no longer under the Mosaic law/covenant. (Romans 10:4, Gal 3:23-25, Eph. 2:15, Col. 2:16-17)

If you could understand these three things I would be a happy camper. These three things are a summary of 90% of what I have been trying to say. Please ask if you do not understand them.
Yes, it is human nature to desire that our understanding of the scriptures be able to shine light on others darkness. The longer this thread continues I am becoming totally convinced that like the ten virgins, five were said to be wise and five were said to be foolish. Both desire to be the wise, and not be the foolish. Perhaps we are not all to be the bride. Did Christ come to marry all Christians? Some bodies have to be the guest, and who are the servants? A mystery that Paul revealed in that he also taught the gospel of the coming to earth Kingdom of God, just as Jesus did. Hint: Hear, O Israel.
 
Jan 19, 2013
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Elin said:
Ya gotta love this one...
1Co 11:20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.
Almost as much as I love, "there is no God." (Ps 14:1)

Relevance?

I probably should make this reminder: I don't suffer fools lightly.
And people think He CAME TO DESTROY THE LAW.
And you think that "people think he came to destroy the law" in his commands of Mt 22:37-40.
Christ kept the Passover and instructed the disciples "this do in remembrance of me".
Someone just told you not to do this.
Are you serious?

The confusion just gets "worser and worser". . .beyond staggering. . .to mind-blowing.

Can you believe anyone actually thinks 1Co 11:20 says not to eat the Lord's Supper?
Your posts repeatedly demonstrate that you search the NT Scriptures,

not to believe and understand them,

but only to find texts to use for "trumps" in your arguments,

shown by that ridiculous "Ya gotta love this one" comment,

revealing you have absolutely no idea of what it, nor the others, even mean,

no better demonstrated at this point than in

your complete misunderstanding and misuse of 1Co 11:20 above
.

So sad. . .such an abuse of the holy word of God. . .so terribly, terribly sad.
 

WomanLovesTX

Senior Member
Jan 1, 2010
1,390
38
0
I never said the OT is junk. I read it and have learned by it. I love how it points to Jesus and His ministry on earth.

That is a private interpretation that I have never heard of before. The Ark of the Covenant was there.

here is what the vast magority of Christians beliueve what happened as the curtain ripped:




The high preist fulfilled them as the Mosaic covenant was still in effect.
This is not private interpretation. It is found in the Old Testament when and even how the Ark of the Covenant and Mercy Seat were taken and hidden. But you are convinced that all the "Mosaic Covenant" was still in effect. Sorry, there is no "Mosaic Covenant". Even that is not scriptural. At the very least, you should not shade the scriptures to say something that cannot be found anywhere in scripture. Your lack of knowledge regarding the history from the Old Testament is showing. Study and then come back with facts and not fables.