The Truth About The Sabbath

[danschance]

These four verses clearly state that Christians are not to observe the Mosaic laws in no uncertain terms. The Jewish laws were never given to Gentiles either.

1) Christ is the END of the Mosaic laws for those who believe in Him.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."Romans 10:4

2) The next verse augments the verse above. The Mosaic law has no hold on those who believe in Christ.
"23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith."Gal. 3:23-25

3)This next verse states the same thing, the abolishment of the Mosaic law for the NT believer.
"by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace," Eph. 2:15

4) The next verse basically states the same thing, that we are released from the law.
"But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6

 

[danschance]

Laodicea, I agree, but a little more research will tell you that "one" means first, or chief of Sabbaths. This means that the number one Sabbath, the chief of Sabbaths (the only one remaining) was also the day on which Jesus rose from the dead. This day, when days of the week were given names---was Sunday. This is why, for over eighteen hundred years, the fourth commandment Sabbath has been observed on---Sunday.

I believe the 4th commandment has been replaced with "Do not forsake the assembly of God's people" Hebrews 10:25. There is no specific day which has been set aside, yet we should gather together.

 

[JesusLives]

I believe the 4th commandment has been replaced with "Do not forsake the assembly of God's people" Hebrews 10:25. There is no specific day which has been set aside, yet we should gather together.

Did God write that in stone with His finger and Say Remember, that it is hallowed, sanctified, and a sign between us and Him?

 

[JesusLives]

P.S. The seventh day Sabbath was given back at creation therefore not a mosaic law. It was the celebration at the end of God's creation - Kinda like His signature on a job well done and God celebrated it with Adam and Eve.

 

[Yet]

Josh, u r right on. Finally I can agree with something on this site.smile.

 

[Historicist]

These four verses clearly state that Christians are not to observe the Mosaic laws in no uncertain terms. The Jewish laws were never given to Gentiles either.

1) Christ is the END of the Mosaic laws for those who believe in Him.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."Romans 10:4

2) The next verse augments the verse above. The Mosaic law has no hold on those who believe in Christ.
"23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith."Gal. 3:23-25

3)This next verse states the same thing, the abolishment of the Mosaic law for the NT believer.
"by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace," Eph. 2:15

4) The next verse basically states the same thing, that we are released from the law.
"But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6

danschance, how do you reconcile your interpretations of "law" with 1900 years of church history on this subject? How can you not know that the early church, the Protestant Reformers, and most evangelicals, until recent decades, did not promote your antinomian position, that which Jesus warned about. See Matt. 7:21-23 for "iniquity" (lawlessness).

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the
commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

danschance, please read the above, the scores of other texts, and the entire chapters (Psalm 119) which tell us to obey the Law of the Lord, the moral compass used by Jesus ("...for sin is the transgression of the law" [1 John 3:4]).

Historicist

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

Truth, truth wonderful truth
may the truth of God dwell in me
I love you dear Jesus please fill me with truth
May the truth of God dwell in me.

 

[john832]

These four verses clearly state that Christians are not to observe the Mosaic laws in no uncertain terms. The Jewish laws were never given to Gentiles either.

1) Christ is the END of the Mosaic laws for those who believe in Him.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."Romans 10:4

End here is...

G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

If you wish to apply G5056 as the abolishing of the Law, let's apply the word as abolishing...

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

The word for end here is G5056 so you have abolished faith.

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Same word, G5056, now you have abolished the Lord!

2) The next verse augments the verse above. The Mosaic law has no hold on those who believe in Christ.
"23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith."Gal. 3:23-25

What was the schoolmaster that brought us to Christ?

Heb 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
Heb 9:9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

The schoolmaster, the instructor that brought us to Christ were the animal sacrifices that were the shadow of Christ's perfect sacrifice.

3)This next verse states the same thing, the abolishment of the Mosaic law for the NT believer.
"by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace," Eph. 2:15[/b]

Quote the passage not the verse...

Eph 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Eph 2:16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

What is the enmity?

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

[COLOR=#001320

[B]4) The next verse basically states the same thing, that we are released from the law.[/B]
[/COLOR]"But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6

OK, are we released from the Law or released from the punishment due us for breaking the Law. If we are released from the Law we are free to do as we please with no penalty...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

So, there is no transgression or sin is not imputed. We can lie, steal, murder, take God's holy name in vain, bow down to idols, etc. because we are free from Law?

Or have our sins been forgiven for breaking the Law. We are free from paying the price for breaking the Law, the second death.

Just one last point about the Law being done away, if the Law is truly done away and...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

why do we need a Savior? We can't sin because there is no Law...

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

sRom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

So we don't need anyone to save us from sin. Sin no longer exists.

Wonder why Paul said this?

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[john832]

I believe the 4th commandment has been replaced with "Do not forsake the assembly of God's people" Hebrews 10:25. There is no specific day which has been set aside, yet we should gather together.

You got some scripture for that? ONe thing I will give you credit for, it takes more brass than I have to rewrite God's Commandments for Him.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

These four verses clearly state that Christians are not to observe the Mosaic laws in no uncertain terms. The Jewish laws were never given to Gentiles either.

1) Christ is the END of the Mosaic laws for those who believe in Him.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."Romans 10:4

2) The next verse augments the verse above. The Mosaic law has no hold on those who believe in Christ.
"23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith."Gal. 3:23-25

3)This next verse states the same thing, the abolishment of the Mosaic law for the NT believer.
"by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace," Eph. 2:15

4) The next verse basically states the same thing, that we are released from the law.
"But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6

I disagree with your comment "The Jewish laws were never given to Gentiles either."

If that were true, then Jesus would be breaking some of His own commandments.

Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

Even the apostles speaking of what the Gentiles should learn, spoke saying....

Act 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

And the "gentile" from the Exodus out of Egypt....

Exo 12:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.

Lev 24:22 Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the LORD your God.

Num 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.

Num 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

As to Romans 10:4....

This verse is often cited by those who claim that God’s Law is now void. The apostle Paul explained (Romans 10:3) how some in Rome were trying to establish their own righteousness apart from God. Ignoring Christ’s sacrifice, they thought that merely obeying the commandments would be sufficient for anyone to receive salvation.

Paul went on to explain in verses 6 and 7, “But the righteousness which is of faith speaks on this wise, Say not in your heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)” In effect, Paul is saying, “Your righteousness is not going to change the fact that Christ died (no matter how righteous you are or think you are, Christ still had to die for your sins)” and “it is not going to change the fact that He is raised (and is now Himself living in converted Christians [Gal. 2:20; Rom. 8:9]).” It is Christ in us that enables us to keep God’s Law, not anything we do of and by ourselves.

To properly grasp the meaning of Romans 10:4, we must first understand what Paul meant by the phrase “the end of the law.” The Greek word translated “end” is telos (Strong’s #5056), meaning “the point aimed at; result.” In other words, Paul is saying that God’s spiritual Law, which God also calls “holy, and just, and good” (Rom. 7:12), points to Christ, who “

us an example, that you should follow His steps” (I Pet. 2:21). It is Christ living in us that enables us to keep God’s holy, perfect Law, which we lack the spiritual strength to keep, of and by ourselves (Rom. 7:14-25; 8:7-8). The Christian’s ultimate goal is to become like Christ, “the Author and Finisher of our faith” (Heb. 12:2).

In order to better understand the meaning of the word “end,” as used in the context of Romans 10:4, notice: “Behold, we count them happy which endure. You have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy” (Jms. 5:11). James did not mean that Christ’s end had come. He meant that they (the scattered twelve tribes of Israel [1:1]) had seen the aim (purpose) of the Lord: “…that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.” God’s tender mercy on mankind is shown in John 3:16: “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”​

 

[RedTent]

These four verses clearly state that Christians are not to observe the Mosaic laws in no uncertain terms. The Jewish laws were never given to Gentiles either.

1) Christ is the END of the Mosaic laws for those who believe in Him.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."Romans 10:4

2) The next verse augments the verse above. The Mosaic law has no hold on those who believe in Christ.
"23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith."Gal. 3:23-25

3)This next verse states the same thing, the abolishment of the Mosaic law for the NT believer.
"by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace," Eph. 2:15

4) The next verse basically states the same thing, that we are released from the law.
"But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6

You are quoting the position of the churches today, and you truly have won. The work to take all discipline out of our churches, and toward allowing government to make this into federal law is accomplished and more so every day.

Under the guise of the spirit and Christ leading us, the Father is mocked. Moral codes are a thing of the past, even in the pastors of our churches.

Scripture tells us you will win, and we will live in a lawless society more and more as the last days approach. When you say that is Christ and the Holy Spirit leading us to living without law, I can understand why scripture would say that God is mocked.

 

[john832]

You are quoting the position of the churches today, and you truly have won. The work to take all discipline out of our churches, and toward allowing government to make this into federal law is accomplished and more so every day.

Under the guise of the spirit and Christ leading us, the Father is mocked. Moral codes are a thing of the past, even in the pastors of our churches.

Scripture tells us you will win, and we will live in a lawless society more and more as the last days approach. When you say that is Christ and the Holy Spirit leading us to living without law, I can understand why scripture would say that God is mocked.

Thank you Red, that is a very good summation of the problem and I learned from it.

 

[Yet]

John, one man esteems one day, another man esteems another day. But the first Christians met from house to house daily.


Romans14:5 and Acts 2:46

 

[john832]

John, one man esteems one day, another man esteems another day. But the first Christians met from house to house daily.


Romans14:5 and Acts 2:46

Boy am I glad I saved this and don't have to rewrite it every time someone pulls verses out of context...

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

The subject here? Vegetarianism

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only, don’t let this puff you up…

2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

What is the gold standard here?

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now to the meat and potatoes…

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

From Bullingers Companion Bible…

Luke 18:12


twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.

Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.

Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.

1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

Shambles…

G3111
μάκελλον
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549

There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…

Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Meat here is…

G1035
βρῶσις
brōsis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively); by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.

Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.

G4213
πόσις
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.

Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character. He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…

Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…

G1033
βρῶμα
brōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111

Again, we are dealing with food.

Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink) that makes a weak brother stumble.

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats. The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.

 

[Yet]

Dummy me. I thought they met daily. Thanks for correcting me.

 

[Historicist]

P.S. The seventh day Sabbath was given back at creation therefore not a mosaic law. It was the celebration at the end of God's creation - Kinda like His signature on a job well done and God celebrated it with Adam and Eve.

I agree, but there is nothing in the text of the fourth commandment identifying other than one day in a cycle of sevens. To say that Saturday is in this text is absurd when one considers that the seven names for days of the week were not given until the after the New Covenant went into effect. Again, there is nothing in the text of the fourth commandment telling us that is was anything other than one day in a cycle of sevens. The confusion lies in most Christians not knowing that sabbaton (Strong's #4521) is translated "week" in Matthew 28:1 and seven other references. Matt. 28:1 describes the day that Jesus rose from the dead as "the first day of the week (sabbatons)." Matthew, in other words, and seven other references call this day "the first" the number one, or the chief of sabbatons. Early in the next century, when names were applied to days of the week, this one was given---Sunday. Justin Martyr, in the second century, affirmed that the day on which Jesus rose from the dead, "the first of the Sabbatons," the day which came to be known as "Sunday," was applicable to the fourth commandment. Over eighteen hundred years of Christian history tell us the same. The bottom line is that there are eight NT references connecting the fourth commandment Sabbath to the day Jesus rose from the dead, the which came to be known as Sunday.

 

[Josh321]

Boy am I glad I saved this and don't have to rewrite it every time someone pulls verses out of context...

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

The subject here? Vegetarianism

Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only, don’t let this puff you up…

2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

What is the gold standard here?

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:


Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Now to the meat and potatoes…

Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

From Bullingers Companion Bible…

Luke 18:12


twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.

Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.

Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.

1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

Shambles…

G3111
μάκελλον
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549

There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…

Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Meat here is…

G1035
βρῶσις
brōsis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively); by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.

Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.

G4213
πόσις
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.

Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character. He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…

Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…

G1033
βρῶμα
brōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111

Again, we are dealing with food.

Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink) that makes a weak brother stumble.

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats. The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.

it is speaking about days you choose to worship and it is speaking about food also, since your good at twisting scriptures i guess you'll twist this one too

[h=3]Colossians 2:16-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


the fact that none of it never mattered in the first place was all shadow the spirit of Jesus is the reality

 

[Historicist]

I believe the 4th commandment has been replaced with "Do not forsake the assembly of God's people" Hebrews 10:25. There is no specific day which has been set aside, yet we should gather together.

danschance, what you are saying is that 1900 years of church history on this subject is wrong and you are right. Your position is based upon wishful thinking---it has no credibility. Please reconsider.

 

[Historicist]

These four verses clearly state that Christians are not to observe the Mosaic laws in no uncertain terms. The Jewish laws were never given to Gentiles either.

1) Christ is the END of the Mosaic laws for those who believe in Him.
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."Romans 10:4

2) The next verse augments the verse above. The Mosaic law has no hold on those who believe in Christ.
"23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith."Gal. 3:23-25

3)This next verse states the same thing, the abolishment of the Mosaic law for the NT believer.
"by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace," Eph. 2:15

4) The next verse basically states the same thing, that we are released from the law.
"But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6

What you call "the Mosaic laws" were those given by God---through Moses. The ceremonial portion the blood ordinances, circumcision ritual, etc. is obviously not obligatory in the New Covenant. The other portion, the moral law ("the Law of the Lord") is. If it were not, why would John write, "...sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4)? Why danschance, will you never answer this question? Why, instead, do you dogmatically cling to the verses you repeat out of context?
And you refer to "Jewish laws," as though the Law of the Lord pertained to the Judah portion only of Israel. Are you ignorant of the fact that when the Law of the Lord was given there where no Jews, that "Jew" identifies the Judah portion only of Israel only. This ignorance, of the distinction between Judah and Israel, is the root of most false doctrine today, yours, obviously, included.

 

[john832]

What you call "the Mosaic laws" were those given by God---through Moses. The ceremonial portion the blood ordinances, circumcision ritual, etc. is obviously not obligatory in the New Covenant. The other portion, the moral law ("the Law of the Lord") is. If it were not, why would John write, "...sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4)? Why danschance, will you never answer this question? Why, instead, do you dogmatically cling to the verses you repeat out of context?
And you refer to "Jewish laws," as though the Law of the Lord pertained to the Judah portion only of Israel. Are you ignorant of the fact that when the Law of the Lord was given there where no Jews, that "Jew" identifies the Judah portion only of Israel only. This ignorance, of the distinction between Judah and Israel, is the root of most false doctrine today, yours, obviously, included.

You make a very good point Historicist, the scriptural passage that actually spurred me into study of the truth was this...

2Ki 16:1 In the seventeenth year of Pekah the son of Remaliah Ahaz the son of Jotham king of Judah began to reign.
2Ki 16:2 Twenty years old was Ahaz when he began to reign, and reigned sixteen years in Jerusalem, and did not that which was right in the sight of the LORD his God, like David his father.
2Ki 16:3 But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.
2Ki 16:4 And he sacrificed and burnt incense in the high places, and on the hills, and under every green tree.
2Ki 16:5 Then Rezin king of Syria and Pekah son of Remaliah king of Israel came up to Jerusalem to war: and they besieged Ahaz, but could not overcome him.
2Ki 16:6 At that time Rezin king of Syria recovered Elath to Syria, and drave the Jews from Elath: and the Syrians came to Elath, and dwelt there unto this day.

The first place the word Jew is used in the Bible nas an interesting context, Israel is AT WAR with the Jews. the pastor of the Methodist church I attended was startled to find this scripture in the Bible. He had no idea that Israel and Judah were two separate nations.