The Truth About The Sabbath

[RedTent]

Show me where Paul took the gospel to the gentiles that included commands to observe the Sabbath? Show me where it says God gave instructions about the Sabbath "to those alive in Him"? You are pulling all of this out of thin air. You are fabricating doctrine as you go. But I showed you where you are disobeying Christ by ignoring the decree that went out of Jerusalem that settled this contention. The decree that went out of Jerusalem is something you all continue to ignore and when you can't ignore it you just twist scripture in a futile attempt to make it mean the exact opposite. If you disobey the decree you are disobeying Christ and if you disobey Christ then what are you?

I never said that Paul commanded gentiles to observe the Sabbath. Paul was so intent on teaching Christ that he even said that you can choose your day for your Sabbath. If you think you are so much smarter than scripture, you tell me where you get the idea that laws were given to those who did not know Him? I said "alive in Him" trying to get through to people who do not understand scripture. Scripture says that we are saved by grace, not by the law. So why would God give law to those who are not saved by grace? God gave law to those God loved and were part of His family. Those who knew and obeyed Him best they could.

You decide that Christ did not say Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, and STILL you declare you never, ever change scripture at the same time you say that is not true!!

I told my pastor who has a doctorate in theology about the teachings you are giving. We have a prayer vigil, and you are being prayed for. I hope you will accept the guidance of the Lord, and the love given for you.

 

[JesusLives]

That is exactly what you said. "those who know to do right and don't do it"..........we are talking about the sabbath. Are you going to tell me you just arbitrarily threw that sentence in there and didn't mean for it to have anything to do with what we are discussing?

You must not have read my other post where I said I was getting that from James 4:17 Which says Therefore to him who knows to do good and does not do it to him it is sin.

Plus the original post was a reply to LT which you took one piece out of the post and did not reply to the entire post. If I have offended you it certainly was not my intention. I do not believe that God fearing people that worship on Sunday are condemned for that. But I do believe that God does hold us accountable for the truth that we know and will judge us on that.

 

[Rockbysea]

I never said that Paul commanded gentiles to observe the Sabbath. Paul was so intent on teaching Christ that he even said that you can choose your day for your Sabbath.

Then where did Paul say you can ”choose your day for your Sabbath?”

If you think you are so much smarter than scripture, you tell me where you get the idea that laws were given to those who did not know Him?

You tell me where you get the idea that I said the laws where given to people who did not know God?

I said "alive in Him" trying to get through to people who do not understand scripture.

You said, “God gave instructions about the Sabbath to only those alive in Him, God called them Israel”.

Where does it say that only those who were alive in God received Sabbath instructions? Everyone who was of adulthood in that first generation who received Sabbath instructions perished in the wilderness except Joshua and Caleb… how could they have all been “alive in [God]”?

You are trying to get this through to people who do not understand scripture but only people who don’t understand scripture would agree with this.

Scripture says that we are saved by grace, not by the law. So why would God give law to those who are not saved by grace?

You don’t even understand the promises of the old covenant that you are attempting to promote and to keep? The promises to the children of Israel were not eternal salvation of their souls by grace and inheriting eternal life in the kingdom of God for keeping to the laws in the old covenant. The promises to the children of Israel had nothing to do with grace, eternal life and the kingdom of God but works of the law in exchange for material blessings. Those material blessings for obedience to the laws of the old national contract can be found in Deuteronomy 28: 1-14. You will see nothing in those physical promises about salvation by grace and inheritance of eternal life in the kingdom of God.

God gave law to those God loved and were part of His family. Those who knew and obeyed Him best they could.

You are just creating your own doctrine out of thin air here. The nation of Israel under the old national covenant was never referred to as God’s family... they were always referred to as God’s people. And they did not know Him nor did they “obey Him the best they could.” God destroyed many of them and eventually they received every one of the curses in Deuteronomy 28: 15-68 for NOT obeying Him the best they could...

You decide that Christ did not say Mat_5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, and STILL you declare you never, ever change scripture at the same time you say that is not true!!

The reason people do not understand that scripture is because they do not know the difference between God’s Law, which is His eternal nature, and the various contracts that God created to bring mortal man to terms with His nature (Law). I’ve tried to explain this in a blog but in short:

The old physically written contract with the smallest letter will pass away when the physical heavens and earth pass away and are replaced by an everlasting New Heaven and a New Earth. But the children of God (those under the new covenant are not called the "children of Israel") are not under the old physical national contract nor are they under the old physical heavens and earth (they have sanctuary with their Father in heaven) therefore they will not pass away along with the old national contract and the old heavens and earth. They fulfill God’s eternal Law (come to terms with God’s nature/Law) through the new spiritual contract (the New Covenant) that is not composed of temporary ink and parchment and cannot be written down because there is not enough parchment and ink in the world to write down God’s nature… it can only be written on the heart by the Holy Spirit transforming a man into a child of God with his Father's very nature. There is no way this could have been achieved under the old national contract.

But those who seek justification by the old letter, meaning those who attempt to come to terms with God’s nature through the old national contract which the children of Israel failed to do on mass, will remain under the old letter, under the old heaven and the old earth and they too will pass away along with every jot and tittle of the old national contract.

I told my pastor who has a doctorate in theology about the teachings you are giving. We have a prayer vigil, and you are being prayed for. I hope you will accept the guidance of the Lord, and the love given for you.

A prayer vigil for me? Well how nice of you and yours to be concerned about my well-being. Please pass along my gratitude. Also you may want to ask your pastor to come and join the discussion.

 

[RedTent]

Then where did Paul say you can ”choose your day for your Sabbath?”

You tell me where you get the idea that I said the laws where given to people who did not know God?

You said, “God gave instructions about the Sabbath to only those alive in Him, God called them Israel”.

Where does it say that only those who were alive in God received Sabbath instructions? Everyone who was of adulthood in that first generation who received Sabbath instructions perished in the wilderness except Joshua and Caleb… how could they have all been “alive in [God]”?

You are trying to get this through to people who do not understand scripture but only people who don’t understand scripture would agree with this.

You don’t even understand the promises of the old covenant that you are attempting to promote and to keep? The promises to the children of Israel were not eternal salvation of their souls by grace and inheriting eternal life in the kingdom of God for keeping to the laws in the old covenant. The promises to the children of Israel had nothing to do with grace, eternal life and the kingdom of God but works of the law in exchange for material blessings. Those material blessings for obedience to the laws of the old national contract can be found in Deuteronomy 28: 1-14. You will see nothing in those physical promises about salvation by grace and inheritance of eternal life in the kingdom of God.

You are just creating your own doctrine out of thin air here. The nation of Israel under the old national covenant was never referred to as God’s family... they were always referred to as God’s people. And they did not know Him nor did they “obey Him the best they could.” God destroyed many of them and eventually they received every one of the curses in Deuteronomy 28: 15-68 for NOT obeying Him the best they could...

The reason people do not understand that scripture is because they do not know the difference between God’s Law, which is His eternal nature, and the various contracts that God created to bring mortal man to terms with His nature (Law). I’ve tried to explain this in a blog but in short:

The old physically written contract with the smallest letter will pass away when the physical heavens and earth pass away and are replaced by an everlasting New Heaven and a New Earth. But the children of God (those under the new covenant are not called the "children of Israel") are not under the old physical national contract nor are they under the old physical heavens and earth (they have sanctuary with their Father in heaven) therefore they will not pass away along with the old national contract and the old heavens and earth. They fulfill God’s eternal Law (come to terms with God’s nature/Law) through the new spiritual contract (the New Covenant) that is not composed of temporary ink and parchment and cannot be written down because there is not enough parchment and ink in the world to write down God’s nature… it can only be written on the heart by the Holy Spirit transforming a man into a child of God with his Father's very nature. There is no way this could have been achieved under the old national contract.

But those who seek justification by the old letter, meaning those who attempt to come to terms with God’s nature through the old national contract which the children of Israel failed to do on mass, will remain under the old letter, under the old heaven and the old earth and they too will pass away along with every jot and tittle of the old national contract.

A prayer vigil for me? Well how nice of you and yours to be concerned about my well-being. Please pass along my gratitude. Also you may want to ask your pastor to come and join the discussion.

the only sense I make of this is that you are purposely trying to be combative, not trying to work toward truth at all. And that in many ways, you simply do not understand scripture at all, and can't.

 

[Rockbysea]

the only sense I make of this is that you are purposely trying to be combative, not trying to work toward truth at all. And that in many ways, you simply do not understand scripture at all, and can't.

Combative towards your views yes I am.... And you can't make any sense about what I say because you are entombed within the physical elements as a result of trying to observe select parts of the old national contract. And all your views about God giving instructions about the Sabbath to those "alive in Him" are nowhere to be found in the scriptures and you wont find them either. It's like you make up your own scripture... and of course... I don;t understand your scripture because I've never seen it before

 

[Apostol2013]

18 A certain ruler asked him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

19 Jesus asked him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good, except one—God.


20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not give false testimony,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’” a


21 He said, “I have observed all these things from my youth up.”


22 When Jesus heard it b, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have, and distribute it to the poor. You will have treasure in heaven. Come, follow me.

 

[Apostol2013]

18 A certain ruler asked him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

19 Jesus asked him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good, except one—God.


20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not give false testimony,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’” a


21 He said, “I have observed all these things from my youth up.”


22 When Jesus heard it b, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell all that you have, and distribute it to the poor. You will have treasure in heaven. Come, follow me.

he did not say sabbath ?

 

[RedTent]

Combative towards your views yes I am.... And you can't make any sense about what I say because you are entombed within the physical elements as a result of trying to observe select parts of the old national contract. And all your views about God giving instructions about the Sabbath to those "alive in Him" are nowhere to be found in the scriptures and you wont find them either. It's like you make up your own scripture... and of course... I don;t understand your scripture because I've never seen it before

OK, I'll give you one more try! "entombed with the physical". When God uses the physical to give us spiritual concepts you would have to believe in humans being so Godlike they can do without God. Your throwing insults at me is only showing you up and it isn't a nice picture.

"old national contract". I believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Don't you? God can be trusted to keep His word. There are new contracts to add to His word and make it better, but to accuse God of not keeping His word is a terrible accusation and judgment of your creator and God.

"alive in Him". There are people who are dead spiritually and people who are alive spiritually. Those who do not believe in scripture do not have eternal life, they are not alive in the Lord. Scripture does not use the words "alive in Him.". I didn't think you knew scripture enough to be able to comprehend this concept in any way but to use these words to express what scripture says about salvation.

I feel certain that you are not going by scripture. I base this on your decision that some scripture should not be listened to. God does not disagree with God, when people say God does then it is certain that they are not of God. God had a plan for our redemption from the beginning, the entire bible explains this plan. It is one plan, and humans are not to pick it apart saying this is so and that isn't.

God's plan of redemption for us is based on grace. I was always so. Grace is rooted in the blood of Christ. I was always so.

 

[JaumeJ]

The Word is accurate, believe it or not, so why not read about the Sabbath of the Lord, then read about the other type of sabbath. It is strange debating over its meaning and our responsibility when Yahweh has explained all. If you still have questions ask Him.

 

[psychomom]

I don't think any scripture is given to us not to read, just a personal note to someone in scripture. Scripture is meant for everyone that God created.
We are not given scripture to tell us that now the 1st day will be called Sunday, 2nd day will be called Monday, etc. I read somewhere about when they were named, can't remember, but I do know that Sunday is called that because it is the day of the Sun, and from the idol worshippers who said the Sun was a God. Sunday is not only the 1st day of the week, it is the day of the Sun god.

so...Saturday is a holier name?
(named for the Roman "god" Saturn?)

just teasing you, Red. ♥

 

[Hoffco]

Thank you RedTent for that good lesson on OUR names of OUR days of OUR week. Roman 14 must include all 7 days of the week. Therefore ,If anyone wants to have wed. as their worship day, if is oK by me. the Heb. 4 passage teaches that none of us have FULLY entered into God's REST for us. We believers are presently entering ,a little , into that eternal rest. All believers, of all ages will entering the eternal REST at the same time. It has not happened yet. We are all, here and now, still "working out our salvation", and will do so until we die. Love to all, Hoffco

 

[Brother_Don]

If Christ Jesus was walking the earth today i think He would be going to the temple on the seventh day, Christ Jesus is the one i choose to be like, if i ever heard of Jesus setting sunday aside for His Father, for worship and rest, then that would be the day i'd choose. i think if Jesus wanted us to change seventh day to sunday He would have told us, but in the Word i only see Christ Jesus observing seventh day. i'm not telling others which day to observe, only telling others the day Jesus observed, and whats good for Jesus is good for me. i follow Jesus not man.

 

[Rockbysea]

OK, I'll give you one more try! "entombed with the physical". When God uses the physical to give us spiritual concepts you would have to believe in humans being so Godlike they can do without God. Your throwing insults at me is only showing you up and it isn't a nice picture.

"old national contract". I believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Don't you? God can be trusted to keep His word. There are new contracts to add to His word and make it better, but to accuse God of not keeping His word is a terrible accusation and judgment of your creator and God.

"alive in Him". There are people who are dead spiritually and people who are alive spiritually. Those who do not believe in scripture do not have eternal life, they are not alive in the Lord. Scripture does not use the words "alive in Him.". I didn't think you knew scripture enough to be able to comprehend this concept in any way but to use these words to express what scripture says about salvation.

I feel certain that you are not going by scripture. I base this on your decision that some scripture should not be listened to. God does not disagree with God, when people say God does then it is certain that they are not of God. God had a plan for our redemption from the beginning, the entire bible explains this plan. It is one plan, and humans are not to pick it apart saying this is so and that isn't God's plan of redemption for us is based on grace. I was always so. Grace is rooted in the blood of Christ. I was always so.

I asked you not just where it says “alive in Him” I asked you where does it say God gave instructions to “keep the Sabbath to ONLY those alive in Him.” Where does it say ONLY those alive in God were instructed to keep the Sabbath. Well this is found nowhere in the scriptures and now you say you can’t show me because the words “alive in Him” are not there. Well that’s what I’m saying… it’s all coming out of your own head… it’s your made up scripture to go with your made up doctrine and that’s not an insult it's just the way it is.

And because I point out that what you say is not in the scripture (and you admit it) now you’re saying that I’m the one who can’t understand scripture because I don’t agree with your views that are not in the scriptures. You are making no sense at all.

Well I understand the scripture… and the scripture says you are going against the decree that went out of Jerusalem therefore you are disobeying the commandment of Christ.

 

[Rockbysea]

The Word is accurate, believe it or not, so why not read about the Sabbath of the Lord, then read about the other type of sabbath.

Why not read about the decree that went out of Jerusalem and stop rebelling against Christ?

 

[Josh321]

Why not Preach salvation to sinners instead of putting everything first that is not important at all, that's all you should be teaching, none of you don't even preach the law correctly, if you trying to keep it and break atleast one which i'm sure you don't even keep it correctly because it's impossible, your only fooling yourselves... and it's a shame such a SHAME that so many people will be lost because of this, i have so many friends trapped in this system and they can't come out, may God have mercy...showing forms of Godliness ( self righteousness trying to do this by yourself ) deny the power thereof ( holy spirit )

ever learning ( read the bible everyday) and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth ( holy spirit living within, leading you ) Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

 

[phil112]

he did not say sabbath ?

He didn't say get baptized or speak in tongues either. Now isn't that odd? According to some here, Christ must have been in error there.

 

[JaumeJ]

Mar 16:14


Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
Mar 16:15


And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16


He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


The entire Word as it is preserved is supposed to be the Word of our Maker, therefore you may teach praying in tongues is quite allowed.

He didn't say get baptized or speak in tongues either. Now isn't that odd? According to some here, Christ must have been in error there.

 

[phil112]

.............. Paul was so intent on teaching Christ that he even said that you can choose your day for your Sabbath. ..............................I told my pastor who has a doctorate in theology about the teachings you are giving. We have a prayer vigil, and you are being prayed for. I hope you will accept the guidance of the Lord, and the love given for you.

You are reprobate concerning the word. You really believe it was Paul's idea, not God's, for us to choose our own day of worship and rest, don't you? You need to have your heart and ears circumcised.

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

I agree with Rockbysea about this: Bring your pastor in so we can help him too. If he is teaching what you are spewing, you both need lessons in bible doctrine.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? [SUP] [/SUP]God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

 

[Josh321]

You are reprobate concerning the word. You really believe it was Paul's idea, not God's, for us to choose our own day of worship and rest, don't you? You need to have your heart and ears circumcised.

I agree with Rockbysea about this: Bring your pastor in so we can help him too. If he is teaching what you are spewing, you both need lessons in bible doctrine.

This... if anything is contrary to God's words run away fastttt let everyman's word be a lie and mine truth

 

[Brother_Don]

If those that do not recognize seventh day don't, that is personal choice, and i don't think it will keep one out of heaven, but, they won't see the blessings that go along with observing it while living in this world. In the kingdom there will be no day or night just light, is the way i see it. so i'm not sure if a sabbath will be in the Kingdom, but here i'm going to observe it. This is not control only sharing what i believe is truth. i love you all, for real.