Dead to the law

[Josh321]

So no:

meats offered to idols,
blood,
things strangled,
fornication

So killing is ok? Stealing is ok? Sorcery is ok? homosexuality is ok? etc

Or are you over simplifying this passage and missing what is really going on........?

Brother i pray this and speak this out of honesty of my heart, seek God and it shall be known unto you, for the spirit of God is pure righteous and loving those who receive christ cannot practice the things of the world nor do they desire too for they have the nature and fruits of our Lord God, the grace of God cannot be understood with our knowledge, but it is revealed to us through faith

 

[Hizikyah]

Dear brother hizikiyah, to establish the law is to organize the law and teached it for it's right and truthful purpose

1 Timothy 1:5-10

King James Version (KJV)

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;



now after reading this brother hizikyah, that the law ( commandments ) is not made for a righteous man so how can that be the law spoken of in revelation? i know we both see what the scriptures said brother, so it cannot be the 10 commandments spoken of in revelation it must be something else

1 John 3:23

King James Version (KJV)

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Who were the teachers of the Law in Shaul's day?

Pharisees? What kind of law did they teach?

Also you isolate Shaul's writings to you own destruction.

Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law

So no:

meats offered to idols,
blood,
things strangled,
fornication

So killing is ok? Stealing is ok? Sorcery is ok? homosexuality is ok? etc

Or are you over simplifying this passage and missing what is really going on........?

So there is only 1 Commandment? and what about Rev 22? People are cast out for breaking some of the 613, not the 2, 10 or 1.....

Do you trust the Messiah Yahshua?

Are you the bondservant of Yahshua or are you a bondservant of another?

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

 

[Josh321]

Who were the teachers of the Law in Shaul's day?

Pharisees? What kind of law did they teach?

Also you isolate Shaul's writings to you own destruction.

Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

the word Law is: 3551. nomos
nomos: that which is assigned, hence usage, law
Original Word: νόμος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: nomos
Phonetic Spelling: (nom'-os)
Short Definition: a law, the Mosaic Law



So there is only 1 Commandment? and what about Rev 22? People are cast out for breaking some of the 613, not the 2, 10 or 1.....

Do you trust the Messiah Yahshua?

Are you the bondservant of Yahshua or are you a bondservant of another?

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Thank you for sharing your views, and God bless

 

[Hizikyah]

Brother i pray this and speak this out of honesty of my heart, seek God and it shall be known unto you, for the spirit of God is pure righteous and loving those who receive christ cannot practice the things of the world nor do they desire too for they have the nature and fruits of our Lord God, the grace of God cannot be understood with our knowledge, but it is revealed to us through faith

Josh you remember a month ago when you said you would reply to those 3 questions I had...you never did.

Every time a present a verse that seems to oppose your view you ignore but never fully address it, if you expect me to see things your way you can not just ignore verses that I believe carry a certain meaning, you would have to actually address them and show me my error.

 

[Woodartdon]

You are dead to the law. Quite a statement. So many use it to claim the grace they hope covers their sins. Or should I say "their violation of laws". If you are practicing the same love God has demonstrated for us, how could one even dream of causing a burden in anyone's life at even the smallest degree? You are dead to the law as a violation of anything should weigh ever so heavy on the hearts belonging to God!

Romans 7:4 KJV
(4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Galatians 2:19 KJV
(19) For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.


Does dead to the law mean we no longer have to keep the law?

 

[Historicist]

Paul was not contradicting himself as he later shows ALL have failed to be justified by being a DOER of the law.

Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Correct crossnote, we are not justified by a law we cannot obey perfectly as did Jesus. But this does not mean we are at liberty to ignore, and therefore transgress this law (i.e., to abuse our pardon). Jesus clearly warned against this. It is why he will say "...in that day" (Matt. 7:22), "...I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity" (Matt. 7:23). "Iniquity," Strong's #458, is lawlessness. This also, is what the apostle John warned against when he reminded us that "...sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4). Your interpretation of "law," and opinion of it, implies that we are not to live by every word that procedeth out of the mouth of God, and/or that all scripture is not profitable...for instruction in righteousness. Crossnote, you need to compare what the Dispensationalist-Futurist establishment is feeding you to what Jesus and the Bible writers said regarding the perpetuity of the Law of the Lord. Have you not considered as to why Psalm 119, the longest chapter in the Bible is emphasizing the Law of the Lord. And how about Psalm 1, this, the Law of the Lord, is the law Jesus walked in. And we are supposed to walk "as he walked" (i.e., in the Law of the Lord). Sorry crossnote, but you have been tempted, and have fallen, for that which Jesus clearly warned of. Please read Matt. 5:17-20 and Matt. 7:21-23 for the consequences of lawlessness.

 

[Josh321]

Josh you remember a month ago when you said you would reply to those 3 questions I had...you never did.

Every time a present a verse that seems to oppose your view you ignore but never fully address it, if you expect me to see things your way you can not just ignore verses that I believe carry a certain meaning, you would have to actually address them and show me my error.

pm me let's discuss it

 

[john832]

Brother i pray this and speak this out of honesty of my heart, seek God and it shall be known unto you, for the spirit of God is pure righteous and loving those who receive christ cannot practice the things of the world nor do they desire too for they have the nature and fruits of our Lord God, the grace of God cannot be understood with our knowledge, but it is revealed to us through faith

Paul disagrees...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

 

[danschance]

*[[Rom 7:4-5]] KJV* %v 4% Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. %v 5% For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.


Verse 4 talks about being dead to the law while verse 5 says we are free from the law of sin and death.


*[[Rom 8:2]] KJV* For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Amen! Being dead to the law means we are free from it. This is why we are not under the Mosaic law.

 

[Hizikyah]

Amen! Being dead to the law means we are free from it. This is why we are not under the Mosaic law.

Adam and Eve were also free from Yahweh's Instructions in the garden.

Isayah 30:9-13, "That this rebellious people, lying children, are children who will not hear; (listen to), the Law of Yahweh; Who say to the seers; Do not see! Who say to the prophets; Do not prophesy right things to us, speak smooth things to us, prophesy deceits; Get out of the way, turn away from the path, cause the Holy One of Israyl to cease from our presence! Therefore, this is what the Holy One of Israyl says: Because you despise this word (the Law) , and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon. Therefore, this iniquity will be to you like a breach; a weakened wall ready to fall a bulge of a high wall which breaks suddenly, in an instant."

Yet those who are a part of the covenant ratified in the blood of Messiah love Yahweh's Law:

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

8451. torah - torah: direction, instruction, law Original Word: תּוֹרָה Part of Speech: Noun Feminine Transliteration: torah
Phonetic Spelling: (to-raw') Short Definition: law

 

[danschance]

Then just go out and commit murder and adultery and lie and steal to your hearts content. Surely God will not judge you on these things, you are dead to the law, right?

C'mon Dan, you don't really believe that do you? I am persuaded of better things than that of you.

How sad John that you still have blinders on. As I have stated many times we are under the law of Christ.

To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 1Cor 9:21

Notice the phrase "Outside the law" three times? They are the gentiles who are not under the law. Then Paul states we are under the law of Christ. See how clear it is when you remove the blinders?

 

[Hizikyah]

How sad John that you still have blinders on. As I have stated many times we are under the law of Christ.

To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 1Cor 9:21

Notice the phrase "Outside the law" three times? They are the gentiles who are not under the law. Then Paul states we are under the law of Christ. See how clear it is when you remove the blinders?

(not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ)

I wonder, did the Son destroy the Instructions of the Father or are they the same Law?

Yahshua says these are the greatest Commandments, NOT THE ONLY! If that werent enough He clearly states all the Law hang on these 2.

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Shaul clearly understands what the Messiah means and explains it here:

Romans 13:9, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are briefly summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself."

All as in even the ones he didn't list...

Try breaking Leviticus 19:17 and still be loving your neighbor according to Messiah.

And try breaking the 4th Commandment and still be loving Yahweh.

Exodus 20:6, "But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws."

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

Mattithyah 22:37, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might."

1 Corinthians 2:9, "But as it is written: Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the mind of man the things which Yahweh has prepared for those who love Him."

 

[john832]

How sad John that you still have blinders on. As I have stated many times we are under the law of Christ.

To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law. 1Cor 9:21

Notice the phrase "Outside the law" three times? They are the gentiles who are not under the law. Then Paul states we are under the law of Christ. See how clear it is when you remove the blinders?

So, what happened to the Law that Christ spoke on Mt. Sinai?

 

[Laodicea]

Amen! Being dead to the law means we are free from it. This is why we are not under the Mosaic law.

We are free from the law of sin and death not free from the law. Read the context.

Romans 7:1-3 KJV
(1) Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
(2) For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
(3) So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.


A woman is bound to her husband according to the law. If her husband dies she is dead to the law. The law has not changed it is still there but, she is free from the law because of the death of her husband so it would not be a sin to marry someone else.


Romans 7:4 KJV
(4) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


If we are now married to Christ then who were we married to before the death of Christ? It has to be read in context with the first 3 verses that the law has not changed.


Romans 7:5 KJV
(5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Romans 8:2-4 KJV
(2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Laodicea]

Romans 7:12-14 KJV
(12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
(13) Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
(14) For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


It must be noted that the problem is not with the law of God.

 

[LovePink]

Learn your identity. Understand who you are in Christ and in the household of God. Then you will see that all of the bible is for you, for your admonition & learning. But, all of the bible is not to you or about you. Let the bible say what it says, where it says it and to whom it says it to.

This is who we were before God called all men to repent by the gospel of His Son; (Acts 17:30-31, Rm 1:9 kjv)

" 12*That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world"

When we became fellow citizens and partakers of Christ's inheritance it was according to God's will & plan for His purpose... fulness of Christ, all in all of God;

3*Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ

13*Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

We are a new creature God is currently forming. We have a vocation to walk worthy of as ambassadors for Christ. We are to submit to an understanding of who we are and how we are to possess our vessel with a certain mind, so that "Christ be formed in you", the life "eternal life" is to be "manifest in the flesh"- not by our flesh, but obedience to the faith and a form of doctrine from the heart. Having the knowledge of who it is that God the Father sees when He looks at you, His Son... who cannot sin, does not know sin, who is perfect in all His ways.

6*Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

Self righteousness is filthy, a false balance. Know we no man after the flesh, not even ourselves- "There is therefore NOW no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If something is different, it is not the same. Who are you in Christ? What is God doing? Do you know or are you just going to try to please Him without wisdom. How do you build, what are you building? Examine yourself, recover yourself... be useful to God and this ministry, the "ministry of reconcilation" in the "dispensation of the grace of God" as a workman, put in trust with holding forth the fruit of the word of life.

 

[danschance]

So, what happened to the Law that Christ spoke on Mt. Sinai?

First I am not sure Christ gave the Mosaic laws to Moses.
Second, isn't this verse clear enough as to what happened to the Mosaic laws?

But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7:6 ESV

 

[danschance]

It must be noted that the problem is not with the law of God.

No, that is simply your own opinion.

This verse explains it quite well.

But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code. Romans 7:6 ESV

1) We are released from the law, but which law is this verse refering to?
2) It is refering to the law which held us captive--which is the Mosaic laws.

Problem: Square peg in round hole.
Solution: Get a bigger hammer and pound harder.

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

Very confused thread

the ten commandments is the alliance between God and man.It is the covenant alliance
If you will keep my law I will be your God

looks like some don't want him to be their God
that is your mistake, better study a bit better than listening to the same few confusing hash of texts trying to proobve the law done away with

If you are that easily decieved we wont be seeing you later.
it is eternal, he would never get rid of the ten commandments... they are eternal, they are his character

There is no need to talk about the laws of sacrifices, they are completed.

 

[danschance]

Very confused thread

the ten commandments is the alliance between God and man.It is the covenant alliance
If you will keep my law I will be your God

looks like some don't want him to be their God
that is your mistake, better study a bit better than listening to the same few confusing hash of texts trying to proobve the law done away with

If you are that easily decieved we wont be seeing you later.
it is eternal, he would never get rid of the ten commandments... they are eternal, they are his character

There is no need to talk about the laws of sacrifices, they are completed.

Once you have made a conclusion based on error, all other extrapolated conclusions are also wrong.

We are currently under the law of Christ (1 Cor 9:21) not the Mosaic laws (Rom 7:6). This means we are not to obey the former ceremonial laws but we are all held to the moral laws of God.