Woman should not teach or assume authority over men (applies to secular????)

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homwardbound said:
The problem in the Corinthian Church was they were no mature and took for granted the forgiveness they received and were not worried about eating up all the food and drinking all the wine, Having the Brothel there, women with shaven heads, preaching flesh doctrine, and having sex. I mean they used the thought of I am forgiven so what does it matter, I can harm my neighbor, I am forgiven, and this is truth, but not to be taken for granted, rather appreciated so much one ask Father how to walk as Christ walked and then Father teaches us to do so by Faith in Christ the Son.
Interpreter God via Holy Spirit
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Its funny because I've heard like 10 different explanations on how the Corinthians Church was bad and each person uses the explanation they give to try and disregard 1 tim 2: 11-12. The issue with this is if these verses JUST applied to the Corinthians, then why on earth are they in the bible addressed to EVERYONE.
 
tucksma said:
Its funny because I've heard like 10 different explanations on how the Corinthians Church was bad and each person uses the explanation they give to try and disregard 1 tim 2: 11-12. The issue with this is if these verses JUST applied to the Corinthians, then why on earth are they in the bible addressed to EVERYONE.
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Just because something is said in a certain time period, and, it applied to a certain group of people, tuck, does not mean that others,and, let's just use the word, 'EVERYONE,' can't learn from others' mistakes, others' things that God was speaking to the church in this period in history, 50 A.D., or, so.

Let's take, for example, the man in 1 Cor. 5. who committed incest, who, if you know the story, it's about a young man in the church, who commits incest, the exact sin was sex with his dad's wife, which is this young man's step-mom.

That incident there is something that Paul got down on the church for approving of, or, for turning a 'blind eye' and not getting rid of that sin immediately might be a better way to put it. And, the problem was ,that EVERYONE knew about it yet didn't confront the man who was in the church still .

Yes, Paul is speaking as God led Paul's spirit to speak to this church; His Spirit in Paul speaking, but, definitely, that situation is something that applied JUST to the Corinthians, bro. But, yes, too, OTHERS (everyone) CAN benefit from learning how God showed Paul to speak in reaction to that kind of sexual sin in the Corinthians church :)
 
GreenNnice said:
Just because something is said in a certain time period, and, it applied to a certain group of people, tuck, does not mean that others,and, let's just use the word, 'EVERYONE,' can't learn from others' mistakes, others' things that God was speaking to the church in this period in history, 50 A.D., or, so.

Let's take, for example, the man in 1 Cor. 5. who committed incest, who, if you know the story, it's about a young man in the church, who commits incest, the exact sin was sex with his dad's wife, which is this young man's step-mom.

That incident there is something that Paul got down on the church for approving of, or, for turning a 'blind eye' and not getting rid of that sin immediately might be a better way to put it. And, the problem was ,that EVERYONE knew about it yet didn't confront the man who was in the church still .

Yes, Paul is speaking as God led Paul's spirit to speak to this church; His Spirit in Paul speaking, but, definitely, that situation is something that applied JUST to the Corinthians, bro. But, yes, too, OTHERS (everyone) CAN benefit from learning how God showed Paul to speak in reaction to that kind of sexual sin in the Corinthians church :)
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The difference is that is a story (a true one, but still a story). Stories are about a certain time period, and the lesson is to be applied to all. 1 Tim 2 12 isn't a story, its just a lesson stated bluntly. Because of that, you skip the "to a certain time period" and it is applied to all.
 
tucksma said:
The difference is that is a story (a true one, but still a story). Stories are about a certain time period, and the lesson is to be applied to all. 1 Tim 2 12 isn't a story, its just a lesson stated bluntly. Because of that, you skip the "to a certain time period" and it is applied to all.
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Didn't you just repeat what I said ?
 
GreenNnice said:
Didn't you just repeat what I said ?
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I did, you were giving an example of how something in a letter can just be specific to the recipients of the letter. You said the lesson is applied to all. We agree here. I am saying that 1 Tim 2: 12 isn't a story, it is just the lesson, so it can be applied to all.
 
tucksma said:
I did, you were giving an example of how something in a letter can just be specific to the recipients of the letter. You said the lesson is applied to all. We agree here. I am saying that 1 Tim 2: 12 isn't a story, it is just the lesson, so it can be applied to all.
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Ok, good, we agree on something :)
 
GreenNnice said:
Ok, good, we agree on something :)
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So if we agree on this then why do you disagree with 1 tim 2 : 12 stating women are not to teach? Not talking about the being quiet part, I'm talking about the teaching part of the verse.
 
tucksma said:
So if we agree on this then why do you disagree with 1 tim 2 : 12 stating women are not to teach? Not talking about the being quiet part, I'm talking about the teaching part of the verse.
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Tuck ! I say this nicely :) Please, bro, understand that 1 Timothy 2:11-12 is NOT saying what you're thinking it is. Bro, I say this all in love, go to God ! Ask Him what 1 Timothy 2:11-12 really say :) They say that a woman is not to teach over a man or have authority over a man, SHE IS TO BE QUIET.

This is not speaking of teaching in a Sunday School, this is just speaking of being quiet when the pastor of the church is speaking :)

As I just explained in my other thread , on those very five words emphasized , 'she is to be quiet,' I explain this, too. The Lord leads :) So, it's fine by me, I will explain myself a 1000 times on c.c. if I'm led :)


And, those two parts of verse 12 work together, tuck, to explain what I just said above, brother :)
 
It says woman are not to teach.

A women pastoring is teaching.


The pastor is to be a man as this verse CLEARLY states.

GreenNnice said:
This is not speaking of teaching in a Sunday School, this is just speaking of being quiet when the pastor of the church is speaking :)
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Youre right, women are to be quiet when the male pastor is speaking, just like all of us should out of respect.
 
tucksma said:
It says woman are not to teach.

A women pastoring is teaching.


The pastor is to be a man as this verse CLEARLY states.


Youre right, women are to be quiet when the male pastor is speaking, just like all of us should out of respect.
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No, it doesn't say a women are not to teach. It says that women are not to speak over men or teach over them when they are being taught something, 'she is to be quiet.' :)
 
The verse doesn't say over a man who is teaching, it simply says over a man. You add words that are not there.
 
tucksma said:
The verse doesn't say over a man who is teaching, it simply says over a man. You add words that are not there.
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Yes, tuck, read the verse above, 1 Tim. 2:11 ,they are to 'learn' and that means someone is teaching them something :)

A woman is to LEARN in quietness and full submission.
I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, she is to be quiet.
 
GreenNnice said:
Yes, tuck, read the verse above, 1 Tim. 2:11 ,they are to 'learn' and that means someone is teaching them something :)

A woman is to LEARN in quietness and full submission.
I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, she is to be quiet.
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Who is learning? Women. Who is teaching? Man.

If it was able to flip and women could teach it would say I permit none to teach the teacher, but to be quiet. Notice it doesn't say that it says WOMAN ARE NOT TO TEACH OVER MAN. This is over all men, not just the teacher. "A man" doesn't mean the man who is teaching, simply means A MAN.
 
tucksma said:
Who is learning? Women. Who is teaching? Man.

If it was able to flip and women could teach it would say I permit none to teach the teacher, but to be quiet. Notice it doesn't say that it says WOMAN ARE NOT TO TEACH OVER MAN. This is over all men, not just the teacher. "A man" doesn't mean the man who is teaching, simply means A MAN.
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Ok, good, you understand it's "over a man," because I just pointed out the fallacy of your thinking on saying 'over the men.' It's not 'the men,' it's 'the man,' or, it's 'a man.'

This is a woman that Paul is speaking of who is to learn in full submission and not teach or have authority over the man who is teaching her, put 1 Timothy 2:11-12 together and you are able to get the right understanding of this, tuck :)
 
men would fit too because a man, is not specific.

Ex. I do not want a man in my house.

That means no men in my house, not a specific type of man, or a certain man. It means all men.


In the same way women are not to teach a man. This is all men, any man, a man. If it said "a man named__" its specific. It just says a man, which can then mean all men.

It NEVER says a man who is teaching her. You add that.
 
tucksma said:
men would fit too because a man, is not specific.

Ex. I do not want a man in my house.

That means no men in my house, not a specific type of man, or a certain man. It means all men.


In the same way women are not to teach a man. This is all men, any man, a man. If it said "a man named__" its specific. It just says a man, which can then mean all men.

It NEVER says a man who is teaching her. You add that.
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No, tuck, 'I suffer not a woman.....over a man (the man)..."

NOt 'the men.' That is putting words in the mouth of 1 Timothy 2:12, so to speak, you just can't do that, can you :)
 
Alright I'm done. You are ignorant and I cannot teach ignorant people with no logic. You are dead set on your view and are SCRAMBLING for ways to show it. You aren't honest with yourself about scripture.

I've seriously never met someone so blind.
 
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Originally Posted by tucksma
The verse doesn't say over a man who is teaching, it simply says over a man. You add words that are not there.



GreenNnice said:
Yes, tuck, read the verse above, 1 Tim. 2:11 ,they are to 'learn' and that means someone is teaching them something :)

A woman is to LEARN in quietness and full submission.
I suffer not a woman to teach or have authority over a man, she is to be quiet.
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And, answer to this, too, tuck. A woman is to LEARN in quietness and full submission.

This says that she is being taught something, and, it's NOT by men, it's by a man.

I'm not caring either way, 'men, 'a man, 'the men,' 'the single man' 'the husband,' I don't care, it doesn't change the reality that this verse is NOT teaching that women cannot teach or have authority over a man. It is saying that when they are LEARNING, they are to be quiet and in full submission to who is speaking.

Wish I could say it clearer than that, but, I guess, I can't. The Lord leads.
Sorry, you're so frustrated , God bless and, for a young kid, you're a smart young kid, gifted in ways of arguing and I'm sure you can discuss other topics quite well ,too. I just hope and pray you speak to others in love, 'of faith, hope, love, the greatest is love.'

:)
 
The Church at Corinthian were as some are today, ever learning, but never coming to the truth. Cor. 14 was talking about those that had gifts. Paul said, he rather that they prophesied then to speak with tongues. The only way that it profit the Church was by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine. Yes I believe it was the Holy Ghost who made it possible for one to speak in tongues and one to interpret.
 
tucksma said:
Its funny because I've heard like 10 different explanations on how the Corinthians Church was bad and each person uses the explanation they give to try and disregard 1 tim 2: 11-12. The issue with this is if these verses JUST applied to the Corinthians, then why on earth are they in the bible addressed to EVERYONE.
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Not everything is applied to everyone, but everyone when they read they apply it to themselves.
 
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