a general reply to the Catholics

[Woodartdon]

Wow did you miss the boat or what? By no means am I a catholic nor do my post reflect any kind of catholic doctrine acceptance. By the way you can find faults, almost as great, in "all" the established doctrines I have been shown so far.

Yes… and that’s what you Catholics were telling your devout catholic disciple Hitler to tell the Germans (94% Christian) that being obedient to man’s authority was obedience to God. That resulted in the deaths of over 50 million. Heinrich Himmler also a devout Catholic modeled the NAZI SS. organization from the hierarchy of the Jesuit Order.

 

[notuptome]

We cannot afford to become bitter towards those outside the body of Christ. They are simply wandering in darkness as were we before we came to Christ.

Catholic people as a whole are not intentionally doing evil things. Many have been misled and misinformed most of their life from the leaders in the church they trust. It is not easy for a catholic to see the church as in error. I do not see how relating the catholic church to Hitler is particularly beneficial or constructive.

Our focus must be on Christ and not on men in any religion. Only Jesus can save a soul and only Jesus can open the eyes of the blind. Remember we were in the same situation before we were saved. Perhaps some were even worse.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Woodartdon]

I agree with everything except: "only Jesus can open the eyes of the blind". There is no verse to support this part of your statement if you are intending to link the Lord's actually healing eye's to the lord dismissing free will to open one's acceptance of the truth. Blinder are held in place by man not God!

We cannot afford to become bitter towards those outside the body of Christ. They are simply wandering in darkness as were we before we came to Christ.

Catholic people as a whole are not intentionally doing evil things. Many have been misled and misinformed most of their life from the leaders in the church they trust. It is not easy for a catholic to see the church as in error. I do not see how relating the catholic church to Hitler is particularly beneficial or constructive.

Our focus must be on Christ and not on men in any religion. Only Jesus can save a soul and only Jesus can open the eyes of the blind. Remember we were in the same situation before we were saved. Perhaps some were even worse.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[breno785au]

I know a church up in Northern Australia that came to an agreement with a Catholic church in their area. They agreed with the broken people who come to Christ that that Catholic church attended to their physical needs (food water clothing and shelter) because their is a great issue with all forms of brokeness n poverty and they had the resources to do so and the other church looked after their spiritual needs. As far as I heard, it worked out very well.

A beautiful example of the body of Christ working together.

 

[notuptome]

I agree with everything except: "only Jesus can open the eyes of the blind". There is no verse to support this part of your statement if you are intending to link the Lord's actually healing eye's to the lord dismissing free will to open one's acceptance of the truth. Blinder are held in place by man not God!

Men are dead in their trespasses and sins. They cannot see Spiritually speaking. Only the Lord can give the Light necessary for them to see their need of redemption and then the means of that redemption. This He freely does to everyman but many turn from the light back to the darkness. John 3:16-20

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Skinski7]

You can’t die with God because God is not dead even though the pope carries around a dead Jesus on a bowed crucifix it’s not a true depiction of Christ and this may be where your doctrine of death comes from…. this Vicar of Christ. To get a good description of Christ you will find it in Revelation where it says, "One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and His eyes like a flame of fire; His feet were like fine brass, as if refined in a furnace, and His voice as the sound of many waters;"

That is not the description of a dead Christ/God on a bowed crucifix but the living Christ... this is the Christ the children of God are alive to not dead to.

The sinful works of the flesh are dead… yes... but the spirit is alive with Christ. The children of God are not dead to Christ while in this earthly tent they are dead to Satan and his ways of rebellion…. they are alive to Christ and His ways and dead to Satan who once held them captive but now they have been set free and are alive in Christ... the same Christ described above not the dead one on the bowed crucifix.

Of course the children of God have not been glorified yet... but they do not continue to rebel against God while they remain in the flesh. Paul was saved from what he deserved and he repented and no longer persecuted followers of Christ … not because he was “dead in Christ” but because he was alive in Christ and living for Christ… living a new way not the old way but imitating Christ.

You're doctrine…. “dead in Christ” and “following Jesus into a sacrificial death” are not scriptural and very dead sounding.



Read all of John and see the big picture…. John does not instruct the children of God who have been born of God to keep sinning but to repent and grow…. That’s why he also says “Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.” A child of God grows over time by the indwelling power of God and has less and less of the sinful nature…. And remember that power comes from the Living One with eyes like a flame of fire and a voice like the sound of many waters. For sure the child of God wont be perfect like all children growing up but he will obey his Father and not sin a sin leading to death and he will always get better and grow over time. The same way God makes the plants grow over time His children grow over time as the sinful nature diminishes and the child becomes more and more like the First Born. But a child of God, (even Jesus Christ who was the First Born), would never say he is perfect which is why you never heard the apostles nor Christ saying they were perfect.

But sinners like to use this against those who expose truth knowing that no one can say while they are in the flesh they are perfect… But the truth is to be used by the children of God... to teach the ways of Christ by example and use Christ’s words and say “Be ye perfect”. But the sinner will say in response, “Ya but nobody is perfect why are you telling others that Christ commands us to be perfect?" Well of course the children of God are not perfect but they are commanded to be perfect which means by the power of God they strive for perfection and they don’t do that by telling themselves and others repeatedly that they are the worst sinners on the planet.



I no longer view myself as the worst of all sinners and neither did Paul when he said that. People are taking that scripture, like they do with all Paul’s writings, right out of context and building false doctrines upon them. Paul’s big chief sins were persecuting followers of Christ. When he called himself chief of sinners was he still persecuting followers of Christ? Was he wrestling with this uncontrollable desire in his flesh to go out and persecute followers of Christ? Of course not! He was a new creation, born anew and walking anew with different desires and aspirations. So obviously he was not the chief sinner on the planet when he made that statement. Those who can't understand simple things like this in proper context I believe are meant to not understand.

Those who say they are the worst sinners on the planet and tell other believers that they too are the worst sinners on the planet will eventually hypnotize themselves and bring themselves and others under the power of their own suggestion and never overcome.... They will become exactly what they believe they are: the worst sinners. And is this not the prevalent tactic used in this satanic world… keep telling children they are bad, useless, no good for nothing and eventually they will believe it and guess what? They become exactly what they are told to believe.

The NIV and a few other translations translate the Greek word for FLESH as "SINFUL NATURE" in some places (due to a theological bias). The actual Greek word is SARX and it literally means the meat on the bones. When Paul writes about the lusts of the flesh he is speaking of the natural passions and desires of the human body. There is nothing sinful about those natural passions and desires, sin is when those desires are fulfilled unlawfully outside the bounds set by God. Hence the flesh "tempts" or "allures" us to sin. Sin ALWAYS involves choice which is why God holds us accountable for our deeds.

Sin as a nature can be found in Eph 2:3 where the Greek word PHUSIS is used which means GROWTH and the context is in regards as to how a "nature to sin" is acquired through habitual repetition over time. Modern science also supports this because we know that habitual behaviours physically imprint the brain forming neurotransmitter pathways via the mechanism of stimulating chemicals like dopamine. One reason that sinning is highly addictive is that it brings comfort to sinners in the sense that their brains have adapted to being stimulated in a certain way.

The notion that human beings are "born" with a sin nature that compels them to sin is very dangerous because it basically shifts the blame for one's rebellion to God from a "choice made" to a "birth defect." If one approaches God truly believing that their rebellion was the result of a birth defect, and therefore not truly their fault, then they will never approach God with a TRUE heart like the Bible teaches in Heb 10:19.

Think about it.

 

[Skinski7]

Men are dead in their trespasses and sins. They cannot see Spiritually speaking. Only the Lord can give the Light necessary for them to see their need of redemption and then the means of that redemption. This He freely does to everyman but many turn from the light back to the darkness. John 3:16-20

For the cause of Christ
Roger

A dead man can see their need to be made alive.

Jesus taught this in the parable of the Prodigal Son when the son came to himself whilst he was still in the pig pen. He came to realise his wretched state, what he had done and what he needed to do. He then made the choice to go and do it.

It's all very simple if we will just let the Bible speak plainly as if to children.

 

[TaylorTG]

@Woodartdon

Your reply hold much interest in this post as the air of lack of respect from the boastful Catholics here is what inspired this post and has been substantiated here in these reply's. So now that you find yourself on unstable ground you try to turn the proverbial finger?

*sigh* The internet is a hub for misunderstood folks. It'll be better if we can talk face to face. Being able to see each other's body language will help a lot.

Maybe the Catholics should "please train yourself to at least respect our right to have beliefs, traditions, and principles that differ from your own"!

Sir, the only time which I openly attacked your faith was in the 'Is your church the true church?' thread. I don't remember showing open disrespect to your beliefs in the debates we participated in. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


@Preacha24_7

Being catholic does not make you a bad person.

However the catholic church does not teach the truth. They believe and practice stuff that's not in the bible. praying to Mary? God never told us to pray to Mary. You're only supposed to pray to god.

For the last time, we don't pray to Mary. We pray to Jesus Christ through Mary.

You can pray a thousand hail Mary, but if you're not born again you ain't going to heaven.

Lets examine the Hail Mary prayer:

"Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed are you among woman, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, mother of God. Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen."

In this prayer, we're saying that Jesus is blessed, so the virgin Mary isn't the only one we're honoring with the Hail Mary prayer.

While our prayers may be addressed directly to Mary, it is ultimately Jesus to whom our love goes.

It wouldn't be wise for us to underestimate the virgin Mary. Being Christians, we ought to respect her exclusive title as the mother of God.

---

Eh? What say you?

 

[Rockbysea]

Wow did you miss the boat or what? By no means am I a catholic nor do my post reflect any kind of catholic doctrine acceptance. By the way you can find faults, almost as great, in "all" the established doctrines I have been shown so far.

Agreed... my apology for making a careless assumption.

 

[breno785au]

@Woodartdon

*sigh* The internet is a hub for misunderstood folks. It'll be better if we can talk face to face. Being able to see each other's body language will help a lot.


Sir, the only time which I openly attacked your faith was in the 'Is your church the true church?' thread. I don't remember showing open disrespect to your beliefs in the debates we participated in. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


@Preacha24_7



For the last time, we don't pray to Mary. We pray to Jesus Christ through Mary.

Lets examine the Hail Mary prayer:

"Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed are you among woman, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, mother of God. Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen."

In this prayer, we're saying that Jesus is blessed, so the virgin Mary isn't the only one we're honoring with the Hail Mary prayer.

While our prayers may be addressed directly to Mary, it is ultimately Jesus to whom our love goes.

It wouldn't be wise for us to underestimate the virgin Mary. Being Christians, we ought to respect her exclusive title as the mother of God.

---

Eh? What say you?

Why would you wanna pray thru mary to Jesus if you can go to Him directly?
Where does it say I should honor mary as mother of God except it being a tradition if men?

 

[TaylorTG]

@Breno785au
Hello.

Why would you wanna pray thru mary to Jesus if you can go to Him directly?
Where does it say I should honor mary as mother of God except it being a tradition if men?

1. 'Mary' is capitalized!!
2. Of course we should honor her as the mother of God! Read this bible passage:

The gospel according to good old Luke 1:46-48 [SUP]46[/SUP]Then Mary said:

"My being proclaims the greatness of the Lord,​

My spirit finds joy in God my savior,
For he has looked upon his servant in her lowliness
All ages to come shall call me blessed.

​

Examine the last line! If all ages (including this one) shall call Mary blessed, then, even today, she must have significance in God's divine plan for us!


In Luke 1:30, the angel told Mary that she is favored by God.
The virgin Mary is favored by the Lord himself, so we Catholics believe that we have a better chance of receiving God's grace for our daily needs if we ask the virgin Mary to pray to him on our behalf.

Keep in mind, Brenuo785au: Praying to Jesus Christ through Mary and the other saints does not in any way downgrade Jesus's role as the sole mediator between God and man! Like I said in post #108, the Hail Mary prayer, although addressed to Mary herself, is ultimately giving Jesus honor as well.


All of our prayers to the saints give honor to Jesus Christ in some way, so it is inaccurate to suggest that we ignore Jesus when we call upon the saints for aid.

Praying to Jesus directly isn't bad at all, but connecting with him and only with him would be to completely ignore the rest of our family up in Heaven!

 

[lookuptoseeJesus]

What is that to thee?
Follow thou me!
The word of God.
Jesus is well able to know how to save catholics, dont worry about them.
We are to worry about ourselves and getting a relationship with Jesus.

 

[breno785au]

@Breno785au
Hello.

1. 'Mary' is capitalized!!
2. Of course we should honor her as the mother of God! Read this bible passage:

The gospel according to good old Luke 1:46-48 [SUP]46[/SUP]Then Mary said:

"My being proclaims the greatness of the Lord,​

My spirit finds joy in God my savior,
For he has looked upon his servant in her lowliness
All ages to come shall call me blessed.

​

Examine the last line! If all ages (including this one) shall call Mary blessed, then, even today, she must have significance in God's divine plan for us!


In Luke 1:30, the angel told Mary that she is favored by God.
The virgin Mary is favored by the Lord himself, so we Catholics believe that we have a better chance of receiving God's grace for our daily needs if we ask the virgin Mary to pray to him on our behalf.

Keep in mind, Brenuo785au: Praying to Jesus Christ through Mary and the other saints does not in any way downgrade Jesus's role as the sole mediator between God and man! Like I said in post #108, the Hail Mary prayer, although addressed to Mary herself, is ultimately giving Jesus honor as well.


All of our prayers to the saints give honor to Jesus Christ in some way, so it is inaccurate to suggest that we ignore Jesus when we call upon the saints for aid.

Praying to Jesus directly isn't bad at all, but connecting with him and only with him would be to completely ignore the rest of our family up in Heaven!

Sorry, I was on my phone when I replied to your quote, so capitalisation is used only when necessary, it's grammatical.
You said you have a better chance at receiving Gods grace if you pray thru Mary. - We don't need to twist Gods arm for grace, it's freely given

 

[Woodartdon]

Really, that is the best you've got to support such drastic indoctrination of faith! Really! I do count her as blessed by God. So are you saying, we should pray through each and every person bless by God? Adding to the word is sin

Sorry, I was on my phone when I replied to your quote, so capitalisation is used only when necessary, it's grammatical.
You said you have a better chance at receiving Gods grace if you pray thru Mary. - We don't need to twist Gods arm for grace, it's freely given

n

 

[Hizikyah]

1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is Yahweh; and One Mediator between Yahweh and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah."

 

[Woodartdon]

You seem to be confused with the progression of this post, might I suggest you re-read he whole of the post that you might get your head in order with the points. Your defensive posture of circles get repetitive at best. Now you are trying to argue "it is not so bad" rather then proving the facts.

@Woodartdon

*sigh* The internet is a hub for misunderstood folks. It'll be better if we can talk face to face. Being able to see each other's body language will help a lot.


Sir, the only time which I openly attacked your faith was in the 'Is your church the true church?' thread. I don't remember showing open disrespect to your beliefs in the debates we participated in. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


@Preacha24_7



For the last time, we don't pray to Mary. We pray to Jesus Christ through Mary.

Lets examine the Hail Mary prayer:

"Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed are you among woman, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, mother of God. Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen."

In this prayer, we're saying that Jesus is blessed, so the virgin Mary isn't the only one we're honoring with the Hail Mary prayer.

While our prayers may be addressed directly to Mary, it is ultimately Jesus to whom our love goes.

It wouldn't be wise for us to underestimate the virgin Mary. Being Christians, we ought to respect her exclusive title as the mother of God.

---

Eh? What say you?

 

[breno785au]

Really, that is the best you've got to support such drastic indoctrination of faith! Really! I do count her as blessed by God. So are you saying, we should pray through each and every person bless by God? Adding to the word is sin



n

*confused* are you talking to me there?

 

[Shyness]

Please By All Means, If You Have Something Against A Certain Religion, It Is Best That You Keep It To Yourself. We Do Not Need Thread Pitting One Denomination Against Another. All This Is Going To Do Is Cause A Ruckus In Which We Definitely Do Not Want. We Do Not Need To Be Pitting Catholics Against Protestants for God Commands Us To Love And Not Hate.

 

[secularhermit]

True! The history tell which denomination largely spat (or spit) on those who wanted to seek GOD and not men's teaching. I can say what church as called evangelicals " a sect"... That sectarism was acknowledge before -and during- Jesus' life time. Later on, more religions appeared. although HInduism seems to be older... Protestants, Catholics... and all need the same salvation.

We cannot be saved alone, without GOD.

 

[phil112]

I know a church up in Northern Australia that came to an agreement with a Catholic church in their area. They agreed with the broken people who come to Christ that that Catholic church attended to their physical needs (food water clothing and shelter) because their is a great issue with all forms of brokeness n poverty and they had the resources to do so and the other church looked after their spiritual needs. As far as I heard, it worked out very well.

A beautiful example of the body of Christ working together.

Forgive my skepticism, but I would like to see a link to that story.