God doesn't seem to really care.

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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if this person wants me to trust them it will take a long time and many instances of personal proof. so maybe if god proves himself to me personally over and over for a couple decades... Now that's special and maybe i will finally begin to trust. but i suppose he does not care enough about me personally to do this. so why should i care about him personally?

then it may take decades for you to see that He does care about you personally :)
i wouldn't expect a couple of days of posting back and forth to convince you anyway; all i can do is give you my point of view.
i apologize again if i come off as overbearing or hostile. i have to speak from my own perspective, and if i sounded like i was ridiculing you, it's ideas and perspectives i'm ridiculing, ideas and perspectives i once held and since rejected, not you.

in the end the onus is on God to to do the work in people's hearts, and as anyone can tell you, sometimes He does it in an instant, and other times it takes a lifetime before the picture is complete. what He wants from people is trust, and then the obedience that trust produces. in very few cases in the bible (Moses, Daniel.. maybe a couple more) did God ever give a human even a semi-complete picture of His plans before He asked them to go somewhere or do something, and much more often than not what He asked people to do was completely contrary to reasoning, and there wasn't substantial 'proof' for them until after they did what He asked, sometimes not even in their lifetimes.

what's different about the bible from a random person on the street asking you to put on a tin foil hat is that it was written over a period of thousands of years, and includes very specific prophesies that made no sense at the time, but were born out later. the fall of Babylon and myriad other ancient kingdoms, in specific detail. Alexander the Great and the specific way in which his empire was divided. the coming of Christ. the Persian empire. there is no other book on earth like this; it's not without credentials.
 

penknight

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2014
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You dont know me so dont say what i "just" am.

He should be willing to explain some things if he really cares.
You are angry, your word choice and avatar are strong indicators of that, but whatever you don't have to proof anything to me.

Let me ask you something, if you don't the advice on this site helpful what are you going to do regarding a relationship with God?
Have you tried looking at it from our perspective?
And do want a relationship with God?
 
Dec 15, 2013
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Where did you get the silly idea that people suffer forever in hell? You mustn't believe everything you hear. Read the Bible and find out for yourself. The Lord disciplines us when we sin and then forgives us. Read this:

[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV
If there is no hell and everyone goes to heaven then whats the point of a relationship with god?
 
Dec 15, 2013
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then it may take decades for you to see that He does care about you personally :)
i wouldn't expect a couple of days of posting back and forth to convince you anyway; all i can do is give you my point of view.
i apologize again if i come off as overbearing or hostile. i have to speak from my own perspective, and if i sounded like i was ridiculing you, it's ideas and perspectives i'm ridiculing, ideas and perspectives i once held and since rejected, not you.

in the end the onus is on God to to do the work in people's hearts, and as anyone can tell you, sometimes He does it in an instant, and other times it takes a lifetime before the picture is complete. what He wants from people is trust, and then the obedience that trust produces. in very few cases in the bible (Moses, Daniel.. maybe a couple more) did God ever give a human even a semi-complete picture of His plans before He asked them to go somewhere or do something, and much more often than not what He asked people to do was completely contrary to reasoning, and there wasn't substantial 'proof' for them until after they did what He asked, sometimes not even in their lifetimes.

what's different about the bible from a random person on the street asking you to put on a tin foil hat is that it was written over a period of thousands of years, and includes very specific prophesies that made no sense at the time, but were born out later. the fall of Babylon and myriad other ancient kingdoms, in specific detail. Alexander the Great and the specific way in which his empire was divided. the coming of Christ. the Persian empire. there is no other book on earth like this; it's not without credentials.

Yes. so i see. and it is impressive. but still no proof that the exact god of the bible (or any god at all) was behind it all... What was truly behind it is unknown.
 
Dec 15, 2013
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You are angry, your word choice and avatar are strong indicators of that, but whatever you don't have to proof anything to me.

Let me ask you something, if you don't the advice on this site helpful what are you going to do regarding a relationship with God?
Have you tried looking at it from our perspective?
And do want a relationship with God?
Yea, i may have anger. but its more than that. you dont understand so dont act like its a simple anger problem.

And yes... your perspective is you love god, trust god, he is everything, you want everyone to have the peace of god and can't understand why anyone would turn down a "free gift" ... And you know god to be truth. (something like that)

Thats all well and good for you. but i obviously dont see it that way, and you would be positive i am the one thats wrong, wether cuz you are fooled or enlightened, who really knows. (you think you know, yea yea) . I am not claiming to be sure of anything, unlike you.

And as for a relationship with god, if i deem it a wise decision then yes i shall attempt it.
 
Dec 19, 2009
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If there is no hell and everyone goes to heaven then whats the point of a relationship with god?
The Lord disciplines us when we sin, and that can be very painful.

Put another way, the consequences of our sin can be very painful. Here's an example: You rob a bank and get thrown in prison for ten years.
 

penknight

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2014
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Well if you're looking for physical proof apart from faith chances are you'll not attempt it. Is that the kind of proof you're looking for?
 
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Dec 15, 2013
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The Lord disciplines us when we sin, and that can be very painful.

Put another way, the consequences of our sin can be very painful. Here's an example: You rob a bank and get thrown in prison for ten years.
Ok... But god set it up so there would be consequences even for the smallest sin?
 
Dec 15, 2013
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And as for a relationship with god, if i deem it a wise decision then yes i shall attempt it.

Well if you're looking for physical proof apart from faith chances are you'll not attempt it. Is that the kind of proof you're looking for?
Not necessarily physical. just something that convinces me that the probability is greater than the unlikeliness.

But i suppose you could say chances are i wont attempt it... at least not very soon.
 

penknight

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2014
811
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Well if you're looking for physical proof apart from faith chances are you'll not attempt it. Is that the kind of proof you're looking for?
 
Dec 19, 2009
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Really? Well thats reasonable. why do some christians say that "all sin is the same" and all gets equal punishment?

There is this verse:

For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. James 2:10 RSV

In other words, we need to obey all the commandments, not just most of them. Still, you don't spend eternity in hell for jay-walking.
 
Dec 15, 2013
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Well if you're looking for physical proof apart from faith chances are you'll not attempt it. Is that the kind of proof you're looking for?
I already answered this... scroll up.
 
Dec 15, 2013
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There is this verse:

For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it. James 2:10 RSV

In other words, we need to obey all the commandments, not just most of them. Still, you don't spend eternity in hell for jay-walking.
What do you spend eternity in hell for?
 
Dec 19, 2009
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What do you spend eternity in hell for?
No one is dumb enough to spend eternity in hell, are they? The Lord, at the proper time, forgives us for our sins, so the only way to spend eternity in hell is to never stop sinning. That's my take on it. Read this again:

[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV

"Die for it" means to suffer. "Live by it" means that you do not suffer.
 

penknight

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2014
811
26
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"an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign but none shall be given to them expect the sign of Jonah"

-Jesus (the exact words depends on the version of the Bible it camefrom.)
 
Dec 15, 2013
229
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No one is dumb enough to spend eternity in hell, are they? The Lord, at the proper time, forgives us for our sins, so the only way to spend eternity in hell is to never stop sinning. That's my take on it. Read this again:

[17] "Yet your people say, `The way of the Lord is not just'; when it is their own way that is not just.
[18] When the righteous turns from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, he shall die for it.
[19] And when the wicked turns from his wickedness, and does what is lawful and right, he shall live by it.
[20] Yet you say, `The way of the Lord is not just.' O house of Israel, I will judge each of you according to his ways." Ezekiel 33:17-20 RSV

"Die for it" means to suffer. "Live by it" means that you do not suffer.
So... i guess i havta give up porn... xD
 
Dec 15, 2013
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"an evil and adulterous generation seeks a sign but none shall be given to them expect the sign of Jonah"

-Jesus (the exact words depends on the version of the Bible it camefrom.)
The sign of jonah? A whale?