Bill Nye Debates Ken Ham - HD

[Jhana]

1. How do you view what I wrote as an attack?

don't you?

2.How do you think I would be viewed and treated if I went to an Atheist chat site and tried to convince you that you need Jesus?

I can't speak for someone else. It's irrelevant. You shouldn't treat people any way based on whether someone else is alll about eyes for eyes.

3.I haven't met a Christian who doesn't believe God created the universe, man is in a fallen state due to his sin, in need of a savior, and Jesus Christ the only Son of God is that Savior. If you don't believe those tenets you aren't a Christian.

And I haven't met a christian who doesn't want to bend words and beat around the bush. You said that I was trying to convince people what they KNOW is true isn't. This thread is about oldearth/ new earth/ evolution. Even the CHRISTIANS on this thread have different views on it. So what you KNOW, is subjective to WHO you are. I might be trying to say to YOU in particular, 'look at the evidence', but there's been a few CHRISTIANS who've actually agreed with my views on the age of the earth. Not once did I say creationism was a myth. I just don't divide creation and 'everything else' in the polar way you do.

4. I must have touched a nerve because you can't even admit to yourself why your'e here

Correction, I said it's none of your business. That statement has to do with telling you why I'm here, thus giving you ammunition for more personal arguments and slatings, more than likely. Irrelevant to the discussion.

5. My motive is the exact same with every unbeliever. To preach the Gospel, and through the Holy Spirit, snatch as many as possible from the fire. THAT is the primary commission of Christianity, and by extension this site and EVERY thread.NOT to score points on a pointless debate.

Then go and preach. I already understand your view. No point in preaching to me.

6. You can't really offend me. I have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus.

Good, i'm glad. Ego is of no use.

7.If you believe there is no God then, as God has said, the fool has said in his heart there is no God. If you do believe there is a God then you do well but the demons also believe there is a God and tremble. You need Jesus as well.

I never said what I believed. I certainly never said there was no God.

8. Finally, you couldn't be more wrong about me being angry or see you as a "stupid little atheist". I am humbled to have the opportunity to preach the Gospel and more than welcome you here to hear it. All I'm asking is that you be honest with yourself as to why you are here.

Why ask anything from me as a pre-requisite, if you only want to 'give' something to me?

 

[Tintin]

Great! There's always a Jackass in the Christian world who ends up having a debate over evolution, while trying to argue a 6000 year old Creation; that gets highly publicized!? WOW! 2 steps forward and 10 steps back. The Church is fighting on a hundred fronts, and Wham! A kick to the groin from within!
Just my thoughts

I can feel the love! You do realise the damage evolutionary theory is doing to society, don't you? One reason suicide is on the rise is because people feel they don't have an identity and a purpose. God's message of hope and salvation provides identity and purpose, but much of the world wants nothing to do with God. Suicide is on the rise largely because many haven't been taught how to overcome great obstacles, or don't come from a loving family background. These factors, along with the belief that we all originally evolved from primordial soup, help contribute to such tragedies.

Evolutionary theory and the Bible don't gel, it's compromising, plain and simple. I've said this time and time again, you really have to violently shoehorn such beliefs into the text and even then it just doesn't work. So many hoops to jump through. God's Word was intended to be easy to understand, not cryptic. God isn't the Author of confusion. He speaks to us in the human language. Yes, context is important - historical, cultural, literary, theological etc. but that's why the creation story, Noah's Ark etc. must be understood as history. They're not written in the myth-style or as parables but historical narratives, albeit brief ones.

 

[Jhana]

I can feel the love! You do realise the damage evolutionary theory is doing to society, don't you? One reason suicide is on the rise is because people feel they don't have an identity and a purpose. God's message of hope and salvation provides identity and purpose, but much of the world wants nothing to do with God. Suicide is on the rise largely because many haven't been taught how to overcome great obstacles, or don't come from a loving family background. These factors, along with the belief that we all originally evolved from primordial soup, help contribute to such tragedies.

Evolutionary theory and the Bible don't gel, it's compromising, plain and simple. I've said this time and time again, you really have to violently shoehorn such beliefs into the text and even then it just doesn't work. So many hoops to jump through. God's Word was intended to be easy to understand, not cryptic. God isn't the Author of confusion. He speaks to us in the human language. Yes, context is important - historical, cultural, literary, theological etc. but that's why the creation story, Noah's Ark etc. must be understood as history. They're not written in the myth-style or as parables but historical narratives, albeit brief ones.

Your first two lines made me unwilling to read the rest of your post. To say that evolutionary theory is doing 'damage' to society, then jump off and say suicide is on the rise because evvolutionary theory doesn't give people purpose, is really, really illogical.

Purpose doesn't require mainstream christianity nor the absence of evolutionary theory. Evolutionary theorists have purpose; to study evolutionary theory. :/

You might want to ask the Samaritans how many mainstream christians feel suicidal.

 

[megaman125]

Your first two lines made me unwilling to read the rest of your post. To say that evolutionary theory is doing 'damage' to society, then jump off and say suicide is on the rise because evvolutionary theory doesn't give people purpose, is really, really illogical.

But do you support Bill Nye when he said teaching creationism to kids would be damaging to society?

 

[Jhana]

But do you support Bill Nye when he said teaching creationism to kids would be damaging to society?

Not inherently no. It depends whose particular interpretation of 'creationism' you're talking about.

If it's the kind that says 'God made the world in 6 actual days (when there was no sun on the first day ? :/) and if you believe anything else you're going to hell, and by the way, science is your enemy', then yes, I do believe it would be damaging to society, not least because it encourages people to be thoughtless, to question nothing and to be led like cattle.

I was taught creationism at school. I was also taught evolutionary theory. It was up to me to find out where the discrepancies and inconsistencies lay.

 

[st_sebastian]

Your first two lines made me unwilling to read the rest of your post. To say that evolutionary theory is doing 'damage' to society, then jump off and say suicide is on the rise because evvolutionary theory doesn't give people purpose, is really, really illogical.

Purpose doesn't require mainstream christianity nor the absence of evolutionary theory. Evolutionary theorists have purpose; to study evolutionary theory. :/

You might want to ask the Samaritans how many mainstream christians feel suicidal.

Nor would it be especially problematic if, in a godless universe, someone who felt their life was no longer worth living did in fact commit suicide. If someone were in extremely bad pain and there was certainly no recourse, including miracles, then it's torture to insist that he keep living. If a madman dropped me into a volcano and gave me a pill that would kill me instantly, I would prefer one death to the other, since, again in a godless universe, there would be no prohibition against taking my life and I should not expect miracles.

Now, I believe that a lot of people are in pain who could and should be helped, and that suicide would prevent them from receiving that help. In other words, if you do not believe in a god who has prohibited it, suicide may be rational, but it is often simply irrational.

But what does it really matter? Truth is truth, whether it makes us feel bad or good. If the mainstream view of Christianity is correct, then the majority of humanity will burn in hell forever. Does this make us happy? It makes me sad. But this negative emotion has nothing to do with anything. It is either true or it is not.

Maybe evolution takes away a sense of purpose. That's not the question. The question is whether we have a purpose or not. A lot of evolutionists don't think so. It would be nice if we did. It would be nice if I had $1M in the bank. I do not.

Oh well.

 

[Jhana]

Nor would it be especially problematic if, in a godless universe, someone who felt their life was no longer worth living did in fact commit suicide. If someone were in extremely bad pain and there was certainly no recourse, including miracles, then it's torture to insist that he keep living. If a madman dropped me into a volcano and gave me a pill that would kill me instantly, I would prefer one death to the other, since, again in a godless universe, there would be no prohibition against taking my life and I should not expect miracles.

Now, I believe that a lot of people are in pain who could and should be helped, and that suicide would prevent them from receiving that help. In other words, if you do not believe in a god who has prohibited it, suicide may be rational, but it is often simply irrational.

But what does it really matter? Truth is truth, whether it makes us feel bad or good. If the mainstream view of Christianity is correct, then the majority of humanity will burn in hell forever. Does this make us happy? It makes me sad. But this negative emotion has nothing to do with anything. It is either true or it is not.

May evolution takes away a sense of purpose. That's not the question. The question is whether we have a purpose or not. A lot of evolutionists don't think so. It would be nice if we did. It would be nice if I had $1M in the bank. I do not.

Oh well.

I suppose if we take your argument as being the way things are, then a person's definition of 'purpose' depends on how much they need to feel important in 'the grand scale of things'. Perhaps evolutionists don't require that importance, thus they don't look for it.

It's a subjective topic. The seat of affections, for me, runs much deeper than the logical mind. I'll admit that bluntly.

One's purpose may be found in the logic of scripture, in the words themselves, but all the same, one's purpose may be found in complete absence of those linguistic logic - in being compassionate to others.

Just one example of a purpose, to my eyes, much greater than a head full of mainstream religious jargon and a life saturated with scriptural warring.

 

[danschance]

But do you support Bill Nye when he said teaching creationism to kids would be damaging to society?

That was the dumbest thing I heard from Nye. Too bad he is a religious-phobe.

 

[Tintin]

Jhana, if there is no god, no afterlife and evolutionary theory is true, nothing matters. Not you, not your family, not your friends, not your acquaintances, neighbours, strangers - no-one. There's no purpose to life, you have no identity. Love isn't real, nor any other emotion. Truth doesn't matter, it's not even relative, there's no such thing. See how silly this gets? It's funny how atheists and agnostics borrow so often from the Christian perspective to make sense of anything.

 

[Jhana]

If evolutionary theory is true, nothing matters. Not you, not your family, not your friends, not your acquaintances, neighbours, strangers - no-one. There's no purpose to life, you have no identity. Love isn't real, nor any other emotion. Truth doesn't matter, it's not even relative, there's no such thing. See how silly this gets? It's funny how atheists and agnostics borrow so often from the Christian perspective to make sense of anything.

You have to remember, those words are yours, that view is yours, and that view isn't mine.

I don't see why nothing matters. Why my family doesn't matter, or my friends, neighbours, the animals we came from and to whom we owe a great debt of stewardship of this planet, or the trees that give us oxygen to breath and live, the fish that clean the sea, my mother who gave birth to me after eight hours of pain, my father who teaches me all sorts of useful and insightful things, my friends, whom I love, the people on the street whom I would enjoy the chance to know and love, the man on the corner singing to himself every morning as I go to college, the girl who stands in the pouring rain playing all my favourite songs on guitar, my teachers and tutors who show me these amazing ways to do what I love.

I don't see how those things could ever not matter, nomatter what conditions men arose from.

I don't see how truth has ever been non-subjective either. Christians profess to know it, and there are a billion christians belonging to hundreds of thousands of sects that claim to be the ones who 'truly' know it. Popular opinion is the only measuring stick the average mind has for 'truth'.

Try the look in a child's eyes when you make her laugh, or the peace of mind from just shutting up for five minutes and being grateful for something. That's truth.

 

[Tintin]

You have to remember, those words are yours, that view is yours, and that view isn't mine.

I don't see why nothing matters. Why my family doesn't matter, or my friends, neighbours, the animals we came from, the trees that give us oxygen to breath and live, the fish that clean the sea, my mother who gave birth to me after eight hours of pain, my father who teaches me all sorts of useful and insightful things, my friends, whom I love, the people on the street whom I would enjoy the chance to know and love, the man on the corner singing to himself every morning as I go to college, the girl who stands in the pouring rain playing all my favourite songs on guitar, my teachers and tutors who show me these amazing ways to do what I love.

I don't see how those things could ever not matter, no matter what conditions men arose from.

I don't see how truth has ever been non-subjective either. Christians profess to know it, and there are a billion christians belonging to hundreds of thousands of sects that claim to be the ones who 'truly' know it. Popular opinion is the only measuring stick the average mind has for 'truth'.

Try the look in a child's eyes when you make her laugh, or the peace of mind from just shutting up for five minutes and being grateful for something. That's truth.

Sects and denominations are too different things and most agree on the basic tenants of the Christian faith. If they don't, they're not Christian.

You've listed many great examples of the joy of living but why does any of it matter?

 

[Jhana]

Sects and denominations are too different things and most agree on the basic tenants of the Christian faith. If they don't, they're not Christian.

You've listed many great examples of the joy of living but why does any of it matter?

I will never understand from where this question comes or what kind of mind and heart sees fit to ask it. You say it as though your little slice of paradise is the be all and end all of everything that you encompass.

Your compassion lies on a foundation you've built only for yourself, that's why none of it really matters to you unless you have your cake, Tintin.

 

[danschance]

I will never understand from where this question comes or what kind of mind and heart sees fit to ask it. You say it as though your little slice of paradise is the be all and end all of everything that you encompass.

Your compassion lies on a foundation you've built only for yourself, that's why none of it really matters to you unless you have your cake, Tintin.

Tintin means to say what does it matter if you believe there is no God. I tend to agree with him. We Christians are obligated to do the things which we believe is God's will. You are obligated to be a better person based on..what exactly? Hedonism?

 

[Nautilus]

It matters because it shapes who you are? The whole nothing matters is evolution is true, is at best a theorycraft of an argument. Jhana, kinda outlined exactly why. I know a lot of atheists and guess what? They aren't concerned with an afterlife, they are living in the moment and enjoying life as it comes. They still form relationships, they still laugh, and love, and cry just as much as the next person. Now im sure someone will be like 'well it doesnt matter if they dont have God', the thing is, they dont need him to obviously enjoy life, they are doing fine with the life they chose, that while you may disagree with it, doesnt make it less real.

 

[PennEd]

Jhana, if there is no god, no afterlife and evolutionary theory is true, nothing matters. Not you, not your family, not your friends, not your acquaintances, neighbours, strangers - no-one. There's no purpose to life, you have no identity. Love isn't real, nor any other emotion. Truth doesn't matter, it's not even relative, there's no such thing. See how silly this gets? It's funny how atheists and agnostics borrow so often from the Christian perspective to make sense of anything.

Well said.


I have long suspected that deep down they know that God exists and created everything and everyone, but by acknowledging that fact it means that they have to admit to themselves that they will be held accountable to HIM. This thought drives them to come up with ANY other explanation, however silly,to explain how they are here.

 

[Huckleberry]

Oh, please! Dr. Dino isn't a credible proponent for biblical creationism, not like Creation Ministries International, Answers in Genesis and the Institute for Creation Research.

Disagree. Kent Hovind can roll with the best of 'em.
Well, he can when he's not imprisoned.

 

[Nautilus]

Tintin means to say what does it matter if you believe there is no God. I tend to agree with him. We Christians are obligated to do the things which we believe is God's will. You are obligated to be a better person based on..what exactly? Hedonism?

because i dont need anything to tell me that making someone else happy, makes me happy. I realized that before I was saved. I realized a difference of right and wrong before I started going to church. I formed my own morality, without any sort of religious guidelines in my life. It's not hard. It's not like atheists are just a bunch of crazy murderhobos. Do you really need scripture and a God to let you know that killing, stealing, abuse, rape, and all that is wrong? If you can't figure that out on your own, you probably dont need to be associating with normal society.

 

[st_sebastian]

You've listed many great examples of the joy of living but why does any of it matter?

I'm not being snarky when I ask this: but what does it matter if nothing matters? Suppose it's true that in a universe without a god there is no meaning. So what? Who was promised meaning? What does it matter if a person yearns for meaning?

People yearn for many things. I would love to wake up tomorrow with a million in the bank, a promise that I will never get sick until I pass away, peacefully, of old age, that none of my family or friends will suffer problems that I cannot help them with.

And yet, none of this has been promised me. So what? Who was promised any of these things? What does it matter if a person yearns for these things? It does not mean they will happen.

The same is true of meaning. It doesn't matter if it nothing matters. Either there's meaning or there isn't, but our feelings about the truth are irrelevant.

 

[Jhana]

Well said.


I have long suspected that deep down they know that God exists and created everything and everyone, but by acknowledging that fact it means that they have to admit to themselves that they will be held accountable to HIM. This thought drives them to come up with ANY other explanation, however silly,to explain how they are here.

PennEd, I've not got anything to be 'held accountable' for anymore than the next person.

You do wrongs. I do wrongs. You have feelings? I have feelings. You read philosophy, you seek purpose, you want fulfillment, you desire peace, you see compassion as a better road than another. I am the same as that.

Do you want to know what the only difference is, PennEd? Life, the Earth, and the people in it, matter to me for a reason other than getting a little slice of heaven. They matter because they are me, and I am them. They do wrongs. They have feelings. They desire purpose, the seek fulfillment, they have hearts made to want compassion in their deepest depths nomatter what life has led them to.

Every little bit of it matters.

Assumption after assumption from you. But I've already told you, I never said there was no God.

 

[danschance]

because i dont need anything to tell me that making someone else happy, makes me happy. I realized that before I was saved. I realized a difference of right and wrong before I started going to church. I formed my own morality, without any sort of religious guidelines in my life. It's not hard. It's not like atheists are just a bunch of crazy murderhobos. Do you really need scripture and a God to let you know that killing, stealing, abuse, rape, and all that is wrong? If you can't figure that out on your own, you probably dont need to be associating with normal society.

Right. I was an atheist myself and I chose to obey laws but I did that based on my subjective desire to be a good citizen.