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Tintin
Guest
Mount Everest is 60 million years old? Prove it. This is silly. Your god is Science, my God is the one true God. I trust God's Word the Bible, you trust fallible scientists. We come from vastly different worldviews and belief systems.
Your world view has no evidence, you claim to have the first religion to have a giant boat with all the animals that ever lived floating around for a year yet somehow plants and what not survived...
Oh and giant humans, a man being swallowed by a whale and surviving, people and dinosaurs co existing, witches being real, demons being real, heaven being a real place right above the clouds (we have never seen it though although others did when the "heavens opened and the dove came out and God said this is my son in whom I am well pleased") no writings about jesus until after 40-50 years after he died...
Tons of and tons of magic and impossible accounts that have no substantiation at all outside of the bible.
Who's crazy again?
Oh and giant humans, a man being swallowed by a whale and surviving, people and dinosaurs co existing, witches being real, demons being real, heaven being a real place right above the clouds (we have never seen it though although others did when the "heavens opened and the dove came out and God said this is my son in whom I am well pleased") no writings about jesus until after 40-50 years after he died...
Tons of and tons of magic and impossible accounts that have no substantiation at all outside of the bible.
Who's crazy again?
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Veritas
Guest
Thanks j. All I'm saying is there are factors at play that cannot be accurately calculated based on our finite knowledge. Add epistemology to the equation and you have a cluster of questions and hypothesis only. No definitive, absolute answers. I'm not much for Quantum Physics, it boggles the mind.
The wife calls it "mind candy". But it IS fun to think about!
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Tintin
Guest
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Veritas
Guest
Umm... you believe there was nothing, then the nothing exploded for no known reason. As the nothing raced apart after the magical explosion, some of the nothing decided to attach themselves together to form stars and planets. Then the nothing formed slimy water that was struck by lightning or some even more ridiculous impetus that caused LIFE!!! The tiny life molocules then said "hey how bout we crawl out of this primordial soup" and, and.... millions of years later VOILA!!! DINOSAURS!!!!!!!
Yeah.. I'm thinking your'e pretty crazy.
Because macro and micro evolution is the same you are just confused about the time scale. Macro evolution is mostly a creationist term used to confuse people.
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Huckleberry
Guest
Right, we're confused.
Because we never heard of this "billions of years" idea until you showed up to enlighten us.
BTW the phrases "micro" and "macro evolution" were coined by a Russian evolutionist.
They are not the same.
One is observable and predictable.
One is unscientific nonsense used as an intellectual hiding place from God.
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Veritas
Guest
There is no evidence of macro evolution. Where is a fossil record of a short necked giraffe?
There is micro-evolution, for example "survival of the fittest" in nature. Selection based on color, speed, etc. No where is there evidence of one thing becoming an entirely new and different thing. Like no lizards that turn into rabbits.
The bottom line is that evolution is religion, and it is state sanctioned.
There is micro-evolution, for example "survival of the fittest" in nature. Selection based on color, speed, etc. No where is there evidence of one thing becoming an entirely new and different thing. Like no lizards that turn into rabbits.
The bottom line is that evolution is religion, and it is state sanctioned.
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TodayJunior
Guest
Well there's Sivatherium
Sivatherium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Palaeotragus
Palaeotragus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Okapi
Okapi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And their immediate ancestor Honanotherium
Honanotherium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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TodayJunior
Guest
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MidniteWelder
Guest
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danschance
Guest
At least now I know why Nephi was banned. Each time I read a post by an atheist I can't help but to wonder why they even come here? They talk about fact while we talk about faith. Are faith and fact not polar opposites? Why do they even bother? I just don't get it.
Id' argue that since God created the Earth, that he'd have created the mechanisms by which it works, and thus the study of these mechanisms is simply a study of that which God made and set in motion.
So if the study of the world that God made, gives us the pretty much solid evidence that the world is so many billion Earth years old, then that evidence is based on the study of things which God instituted and the conclusion is come to by theorizing by the rules of phsyics and laws of motion that the same God saw fit to establish.
Thus, the evidence can't be contradicted.
Language, however, is something that is much more open to interpretation than scientific theory, and culture is a thing that is full of diversity. each culture will have idiomatic knowledge and concepts or myths or views that are generally well known by the group. For instance, the American term 'Break a leg' means 'do well', It could be easily misconstrued as an ill-will to a non-American.
This is just one example, but suffice to say that language is very, very subjective, especially where moral stories and philisophical speech is concerned.
So it would make a lot more sense that scientific fact is correct and that the language needs a reinterpretation, rather than the scientific fact being incorrect just because of how you personally read an English interpretation of a 6000 year old Ancient Hebrew text.
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Micro evolution is the minute mutation of an animal organism over period of thousands of years. Macro evolution is a term used to describe the result of all of those micro-evolutions, over larger periods of time, thus by looking at the process over larger periods, we see larger changes.
So for instance, a non specific prokaryotic organism develops a minute mutation that results in its mytosis (the splitting apart of it into two organisms), creating more of the mutated organism. This mutated organism multiples exponentially and thus we then have a new species, formed from a mutation. This is an example of micro-evolution. So the non-mutated prokaryotic organism continues in mytosis, and continues to exist, while the mutated organism also continues in its mytosis. So we have two techincally different organisms here, that continue to exist, sort of like how a cancerous cell (a mutation) continues to divide, while normal cells in the same body also continue to divide. This is the very basic explanation of how apes can still exist while humans walk the Earth. This small scale evolution of perhaps one minor change in species (prokaryotic organisms in this case) is an example of micro-evolution.
This process continues over thousands of years as the organisms mutate more and more and thus more new species are created, and the more they mutate, the more they become increasingly complex and intricate, larger and more developed, until what we have is a whole plethora of species derived from the same prokaryotic organism. So for instance, lets say now, after many, many, many hundreds of thousands or even millions of years, we have basic syphilis bacteria, streptococcus bacteria etc etc. all derived from that one prokaryotic organism, because of mutations. Yet that single celled prokaryotic organism may still exist, since at least some of it wouldn't have mutated and continued mytosis over thousands of years.
this process, over much larger scales of time, is what is called 'macro-evolution'.
Now, I could take macro-evolution here, and say 'OH COME ON, A NON DESCRIPT PROKARYOTIC ORGANISM DOESN'T JUST SUDDENLY TURN INTO A SYPHILLIS BACTERIUM!'
But that would be to misunderstand the concept and deliberately engineer the argument to make evolution look ridiculous, simply by the framing of the statement.
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Thorsson
Guest
This kind of argument goes on forever because well, an atheist will come from the standpoint 'God can't exist because there's no irrefutable proof', and a christian will come from the standpoint 'just because something can't exist, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist', and 'God exists because I know he exists'.
Technically, both statements lack due to fallacious logic, and since logical reasoning is required for logical argument and both views are based on a certain level of illogical reasoning, the argument of whether God exists cannot logically be proved or disproved
And since the bible itself, the basis for which christians say God exists and which an atheist generally regards as false (because it contains parts which can contradict scientific theory when it is taken to literal absolutes), the argument, right from the beginning, is set to fall apart in certain ways.
Really, a person's belief or non-belief in God is simply a matter of personal perspective. You can't logically say God absolutely exists (taking all things into account) unless you look at scientific facts in conjunction with viewing the bible as at least partly hyperbolic. Even then, from a logical standpoint, a particular book saying one thing does not make that one thing true.
Technically, both statements lack due to fallacious logic, and since logical reasoning is required for logical argument and both views are based on a certain level of illogical reasoning, the argument of whether God exists cannot logically be proved or disproved
And since the bible itself, the basis for which christians say God exists and which an atheist generally regards as false (because it contains parts which can contradict scientific theory when it is taken to literal absolutes), the argument, right from the beginning, is set to fall apart in certain ways.
Really, a person's belief or non-belief in God is simply a matter of personal perspective. You can't logically say God absolutely exists (taking all things into account) unless you look at scientific facts in conjunction with viewing the bible as at least partly hyperbolic. Even then, from a logical standpoint, a particular book saying one thing does not make that one thing true.
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