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I think when most people read Matt 5:17-20, they stop at
"Do not even think"
are all the prophecies fulfilled?
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.
Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.
So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.
"Do not even think"
are all the prophecies fulfilled?
Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."
Has "heaven and earth passed away?".......A quick look out the window shows us no heaven and earth did not pass away.
Have "all things been perfected?".........Still sin and death in the world, so no all things have not been perfected.
So there are 2 things that Messiah says will happen before ANYTHING is taken from Yahweh's Law...NEITHER has happened.
If we don't have the 10 Commandments how do we know what sin is? That is why I said sinners still need the tutor. Of course we need Jesus to save us, but if a sinner does not know he is a sinner how does he know he needs a savior? That is why the 10 Commandments are still needed. They show us what God expects of us. As saved Christians yes Gods law is written on our hearts but there are still a lot of sinners out there that don't know Jesus and need to know what sin is and that is where the 10 Commandments come in to show them what sin is.
I'm going to step in here and make some observations.
Q. With regard to what extent do we need to follow Jesus to be saved or follow Jesus to be counted as our faith being real?
A. David (the murdering adulterer) was said to have followed God. I wonder if every thought and action of his was perfect. Also, Moses disobeyed God throughout his life. He murdered someone. He struck a rock when God told him to speak to it. Yet he is counted as being saved.
Q. With regard to obedience to Torah, is it no longer necessary?
A. Necessary for what? The Old Testament patriarchs clearly show us by example that 100% obedience to it was never necessary for salvation. Christ's fulfillment of the Law and Prophets (i.e. Torah and Neviim) means to fill-up or bring to completion. In other words, he came to fill up and complete the Law and the Prophets. And he did fill up the Torah by explaining what it meant and how properly to obey it. But that doesn't mean he had completed the Law or the Prophets when he spoke those words. When he spoke those words he had not been sacrificed as our Passover Lamb or buried in a rich man's tomb. He had not risen on the third day, not set up his kingdom on this world, not ruled for a thousand years. So what makes people think he's done this all by now? I think for any evidence of this you'd have to look to interpretations of secular history rather than the Bible. And I likely wouldn't agree with those interpretations.
I don't know what Hizikyah believes concerning the Gospel, but I do agree with him that the Law is an important guide concerning how we are to love humanity and God in a sinful world.
Q. With regard to what extent do we need to follow Jesus to be saved or follow Jesus to be counted as our faith being real?
A. David (the murdering adulterer) was said to have followed God. I wonder if every thought and action of his was perfect. Also, Moses disobeyed God throughout his life. He murdered someone. He struck a rock when God told him to speak to it. Yet he is counted as being saved.
Q. With regard to obedience to Torah, is it no longer necessary?
A. Necessary for what? The Old Testament patriarchs clearly show us by example that 100% obedience to it was never necessary for salvation. Christ's fulfillment of the Law and Prophets (i.e. Torah and Neviim) means to fill-up or bring to completion. In other words, he came to fill up and complete the Law and the Prophets. And he did fill up the Torah by explaining what it meant and how properly to obey it. But that doesn't mean he had completed the Law or the Prophets when he spoke those words. When he spoke those words he had not been sacrificed as our Passover Lamb or buried in a rich man's tomb. He had not risen on the third day, not set up his kingdom on this world, not ruled for a thousand years. So what makes people think he's done this all by now? I think for any evidence of this you'd have to look to interpretations of secular history rather than the Bible. And I likely wouldn't agree with those interpretations.
I don't know what Hizikyah believes concerning the Gospel, but I do agree with him that the Law is an important guide concerning how we are to love humanity and God in a sinful world.
I believe Yahshua is the Messiah, the one spoken of in Matt, Mark, Luke, and John, is the Messiah, He was the true Passover Sacrifice and that those who accept Him as such will have their sins cleansed.
I do not believe Messiah came to do away with of destroy the Instructions of Yahweh, but to fully explain them/magnify them as was prophesied: Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"
If one honestly studies Messiahs words we can see He promotes following Yahweh;s Law, IN THE RIGHT way, never saying it should not be followed.
I do not believe Messiah came to do away with of destroy the Instructions of Yahweh, but to fully explain them/magnify them as was prophesied: Isayah 42:21, "Yahweh is well-pleased, for His righteousness' sake, to magnify the Law, and make it honorable"
If one honestly studies Messiahs words we can see He promotes following Yahweh;s Law, IN THE RIGHT way, never saying it should not be followed.
I read through this whole thread, and I admit it fills me with hope. 
When I became a Yehudim, or Judaizer if you prefer, it was many years ago and so few people knew any of the truth!!! An outpouring indeed.
Why is your salvation more valid than mine? Were you there when I prayed the sinner's prayer? Were you there when he forgave me of my sin again and again? None of you know my heart. You have no place judging others salvation. That is not your job. One has already been given that job. One whose sandals I am not fit to tie. If you want to sit in the judgement seat, you can explain to the King why you are sitting on his throne on the day he arrives.
Walking by the spirit doesn't mean that one gives up their common sense and their ability to think and reason. It doesn't mean act upon every random feeling their "spirit" tells them. It means stepping out in faith, testing oneself spiritually, and actively finding the truth, no matter the cost. It means believing that new revelations and new ideas are waiting for you around every corner. It doesn't mean settling comfortably into church bake sales and Wednesday night bible study, it means stretching out and TRYING to bring yourself closer to the father every single day.
The reality of the matter is you cannot understand the prophets until you understand the Biblical calendar. You cannot understand the sacrifice Messiah made on the cross for you until you understand the law and the acceptable year of the father. Do you not understand that every step, every moment of the last few days of Messiah's life fit the ritual and law of the passover in every possible way? Do you understand that was the fulfillment, not the abolishing of the law? He made the law TRUE not void! Do those of you who judge know how much more glorious and beautiful his sacrifice becomes when you understand it in deeper and more complete ways? Why do you sit in judgement of those of us who run after the truth with all of our might, every single day?
Don't you understand that the entire Bible is a story of a legal covenant between a god and his people? Do you understand that without that covenant, the legal agreement, there would have been no Messiah, and no Passover sacrifice for him to fulfill? Do you believe that the biblical patriarchs will spend their eternity in hell for being obedient? Do you know how smug and prideful it was to start this thread to begin with so that you could pat yourselves on the back like nice Sadducees and seat yourself at the front of the wedding banquet, above others with your smug certainty that your version of God is better than everyone elses? Do you believe that you, the majority, are the many who are called or the few who will answer? Perhaps you should ask yourself which side you're really on.
Honestly, if you truly think you have learned all there is to learn, that no one but you in your comfortable whitewashed sepulcher could possibly be right in this universe, then you are ready to die, because you are no longer flavorful salt. Your usefulness has worn itself out. You are no longer soft clay to be molded by the master, but hard and bitter and set in your form.
I will keep studying, thanks, and you enjoy your ivory tower over there. I am not on this earth to prove you wrong, or to be concerned with your Earthly judgement of me, but to learn all that I can of the truth. Your opinion is irrelevant to the truth.
When I became a Yehudim, or Judaizer if you prefer, it was many years ago and so few people knew any of the truth!!! An outpouring indeed. Why is your salvation more valid than mine? Were you there when I prayed the sinner's prayer? Were you there when he forgave me of my sin again and again? None of you know my heart. You have no place judging others salvation. That is not your job. One has already been given that job. One whose sandals I am not fit to tie. If you want to sit in the judgement seat, you can explain to the King why you are sitting on his throne on the day he arrives.
Walking by the spirit doesn't mean that one gives up their common sense and their ability to think and reason. It doesn't mean act upon every random feeling their "spirit" tells them. It means stepping out in faith, testing oneself spiritually, and actively finding the truth, no matter the cost. It means believing that new revelations and new ideas are waiting for you around every corner. It doesn't mean settling comfortably into church bake sales and Wednesday night bible study, it means stretching out and TRYING to bring yourself closer to the father every single day.
The reality of the matter is you cannot understand the prophets until you understand the Biblical calendar. You cannot understand the sacrifice Messiah made on the cross for you until you understand the law and the acceptable year of the father. Do you not understand that every step, every moment of the last few days of Messiah's life fit the ritual and law of the passover in every possible way? Do you understand that was the fulfillment, not the abolishing of the law? He made the law TRUE not void! Do those of you who judge know how much more glorious and beautiful his sacrifice becomes when you understand it in deeper and more complete ways? Why do you sit in judgement of those of us who run after the truth with all of our might, every single day?
Don't you understand that the entire Bible is a story of a legal covenant between a god and his people? Do you understand that without that covenant, the legal agreement, there would have been no Messiah, and no Passover sacrifice for him to fulfill? Do you believe that the biblical patriarchs will spend their eternity in hell for being obedient? Do you know how smug and prideful it was to start this thread to begin with so that you could pat yourselves on the back like nice Sadducees and seat yourself at the front of the wedding banquet, above others with your smug certainty that your version of God is better than everyone elses? Do you believe that you, the majority, are the many who are called or the few who will answer? Perhaps you should ask yourself which side you're really on.
Honestly, if you truly think you have learned all there is to learn, that no one but you in your comfortable whitewashed sepulcher could possibly be right in this universe, then you are ready to die, because you are no longer flavorful salt. Your usefulness has worn itself out. You are no longer soft clay to be molded by the master, but hard and bitter and set in your form.
I will keep studying, thanks, and you enjoy your ivory tower over there. I am not on this earth to prove you wrong, or to be concerned with your Earthly judgement of me, but to learn all that I can of the truth. Your opinion is irrelevant to the truth.
D
I believe you are glorifying the OT because you have not mentioned the NT and stating how important the OT is. I had one man actually say the Greek language is inferior to Hebrew and the NT is not to be trusted. He also claimed new converts to Christianity should not read the NT until after they have read the OT, which I find to be ludicrous. This seems to be a common accusation that "the Mosaic law keepers" make. They over state the importance of the OT while at the same time downgrading the NT. In fact they rarely even read the NT. Yet both are God breathed scripture.
Here is another example of over stating the important of the OT. Jesus/God is the one theme of the entire bible found throughout Old and New testaments, not a legal contract. That is not the central them of the bible.
This kind of language is uncalled for. Discussing a matter does not mean we need to resort to judging others and being condescending, right?
Even so, thankx for your post.
Here is another example of over stating the important of the OT. Jesus/God is the one theme of the entire bible found throughout Old and New testaments, not a legal contract. That is not the central them of the bible.
This kind of language is uncalled for. Discussing a matter does not mean we need to resort to judging others and being condescending, right?
Even so, thankx for your post.
K
I read through this whole thread, and I admit it fills me with hope. When I became a Yehudim, or Judaizer if you prefer, it was many years ago and so few people knew any of the truth!!! An outpouring indeed.
Why is your salvation more valid than mine? Were you there when I prayed the sinner's prayer? Were you there when he forgave me of my sin again and again? None of you know my heart. You have no place judging others salvation. That is not your job. One has already been given that job. One whose sandals I am not fit to tie. If you want to sit in the judgement seat, you can explain to the King why you are sitting on his throne on the day he arrives.
Walking by the spirit doesn't mean that one gives up their common sense and their ability to think and reason. It doesn't mean act upon every random feeling their "spirit" tells them. It means stepping out in faith, testing oneself spiritually, and actively finding the truth, no matter the cost. It means believing that new revelations and new ideas are waiting for you around every corner. It doesn't mean settling comfortably into church bake sales and Wednesday night bible study, it means stretching out and TRYING to bring yourself closer to the father every single day.
The reality of the matter is you cannot understand the prophets until you understand the Biblical calendar. You cannot understand the sacrifice Messiah made on the cross for you until you understand the law and the acceptable year of the father. Do you not understand that every step, every moment of the last few days of Messiah's life fit the ritual and law of the passover in every possible way? Do you understand that was the fulfillment, not the abolishing of the law? He made the law TRUE not void! Do those of you who judge know how much more glorious and beautiful his sacrifice becomes when you understand it in deeper and more complete ways? Why do you sit in judgement of those of us who run after the truth with all of our might, every single day?
Don't you understand that the entire Bible is a story of a legal covenant between a god and his people? Do you understand that without that covenant, the legal agreement, there would have been no Messiah, and no Passover sacrifice for him to fulfill? Do you believe that the biblical patriarchs will spend their eternity in hell for being obedient? Do you know how smug and prideful it was to start this thread to begin with so that you could pat yourselves on the back like nice Sadducees and seat yourself at the front of the wedding banquet, above others with your smug certainty that your version of God is better than everyone elses? Do you believe that you, the majority, are the many who are called or the few who will answer? Perhaps you should ask yourself which side you're really on.
Honestly, if you truly think you have learned all there is to learn, that no one but you in your comfortable whitewashed sepulcher could possibly be right in this universe, then you are ready to die, because you are no longer flavorful salt. Your usefulness has worn itself out. You are no longer soft clay to be molded by the master, but hard and bitter and set in your form.
I will keep studying, thanks, and you enjoy your ivory tower over there. I am not on this earth to prove you wrong, or to be concerned with your Earthly judgement of me, but to learn all that I can of the truth. Your opinion is irrelevant to the truth.
When I became a Yehudim, or Judaizer if you prefer, it was many years ago and so few people knew any of the truth!!! An outpouring indeed. Why is your salvation more valid than mine? Were you there when I prayed the sinner's prayer? Were you there when he forgave me of my sin again and again? None of you know my heart. You have no place judging others salvation. That is not your job. One has already been given that job. One whose sandals I am not fit to tie. If you want to sit in the judgement seat, you can explain to the King why you are sitting on his throne on the day he arrives.
Walking by the spirit doesn't mean that one gives up their common sense and their ability to think and reason. It doesn't mean act upon every random feeling their "spirit" tells them. It means stepping out in faith, testing oneself spiritually, and actively finding the truth, no matter the cost. It means believing that new revelations and new ideas are waiting for you around every corner. It doesn't mean settling comfortably into church bake sales and Wednesday night bible study, it means stretching out and TRYING to bring yourself closer to the father every single day.
The reality of the matter is you cannot understand the prophets until you understand the Biblical calendar. You cannot understand the sacrifice Messiah made on the cross for you until you understand the law and the acceptable year of the father. Do you not understand that every step, every moment of the last few days of Messiah's life fit the ritual and law of the passover in every possible way? Do you understand that was the fulfillment, not the abolishing of the law? He made the law TRUE not void! Do those of you who judge know how much more glorious and beautiful his sacrifice becomes when you understand it in deeper and more complete ways? Why do you sit in judgement of those of us who run after the truth with all of our might, every single day?
Don't you understand that the entire Bible is a story of a legal covenant between a god and his people? Do you understand that without that covenant, the legal agreement, there would have been no Messiah, and no Passover sacrifice for him to fulfill? Do you believe that the biblical patriarchs will spend their eternity in hell for being obedient? Do you know how smug and prideful it was to start this thread to begin with so that you could pat yourselves on the back like nice Sadducees and seat yourself at the front of the wedding banquet, above others with your smug certainty that your version of God is better than everyone elses? Do you believe that you, the majority, are the many who are called or the few who will answer? Perhaps you should ask yourself which side you're really on.
Honestly, if you truly think you have learned all there is to learn, that no one but you in your comfortable whitewashed sepulcher could possibly be right in this universe, then you are ready to die, because you are no longer flavorful salt. Your usefulness has worn itself out. You are no longer soft clay to be molded by the master, but hard and bitter and set in your form.
I will keep studying, thanks, and you enjoy your ivory tower over there. I am not on this earth to prove you wrong, or to be concerned with your Earthly judgement of me, but to learn all that I can of the truth. Your opinion is irrelevant to the truth.
What a gift we were given in Messiah, that we broke the blood covenant and our Creator found a way to pay the penalty for us. Did Messiah suffer and bleed for us that we could say, ok now, party party? Nooooooo. we are given a gift of being able to repent (acknowledge our sin and turn from it) and pick ourselves up and try again to be obedient to His will, what He commanded us. Messiah showed us, obey the Father and not man.
Forever means....forever. His Word stands!! Almighty Creator rules! HalleluiYah!!
H
To MrsRoseTreasure, I also believe God has one overall covenant that covers all times, I call it THE ETERNAL COVENANT OF GRACE. It is spelled out for us in Romans 8:29-30. The steps are: 1.Eternal love. 2.Election. 3.new Birth. 4. Forgiveness. 5.Perfection. I have interpreted the steps in common Bible language; The Bible has these words: 1. foreknew 2. predestined 3. called 4. justified 5. glorified. All of those chosen of God for salvation , are brought to salvation by God's free GRACE by these steps. This is God's eternal purpose. You called it: "a legal covenant between God and His people". I think my tittle is more Biblical. This is how God saves . After God begins our salvation, We are required to do three things to be saved. These three are ensured by God's powerful free gift of salvation to us. We don't act on our own free will or power. We are required to: 1 Repent of sin 2. Trust in Jesus as our Savior, 3. Obey Jesus as our Lord. May God bless you in your quest for God. Pastor Doug, Hoffco
Well, let me support your effort to keep learning, because you've got the cart before the horse.
The entire Bible is the revelation of God's plan to glorify his goodness in the glorification of his Son.
His covenant with believers is the method he has chosen to accomplish his plan.
There would have been no Messiah, or Passover sacrifice, nor covenant without the plan.
The plan is the basis of everything, not the covenant.
The entire Bible is the revelation of God's plan to glorify his goodness in the glorification of his Son.
His covenant with believers is the method he has chosen to accomplish his plan.
There would have been no Messiah, or Passover sacrifice, nor covenant without the plan.
The plan is the basis of everything, not the covenant.
To be more in agreement with the NT,
The NT believer could not break the Sinaitic bilateral blood covenant of Ex 24:7-8,
because it was made obsolete (Heb 8:13) with the inauguration of the New Covenant (Lk 22:20)
in the atoning sacrifice of Christ.
The New Covenant cannot be broken by believers because it is an unconditional unilateral covenant
of grace, which only God can break, as only God could have broken the unconditional unilateral covenant
of the land grant (Ge 15:9-21).
Those in the last times of the NT (Heb 1:1-2) have broken no covenant.
The NT believer could not break the Sinaitic bilateral blood covenant of Ex 24:7-8,
because it was made obsolete (Heb 8:13) with the inauguration of the New Covenant (Lk 22:20)
in the atoning sacrifice of Christ.
The New Covenant cannot be broken by believers because it is an unconditional unilateral covenant
of grace, which only God can break, as only God could have broken the unconditional unilateral covenant
of the land grant (Ge 15:9-21).
Those in the last times of the NT (Heb 1:1-2) have broken no covenant.
Jeremiah 31:33 This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
The Law being written on one's heart isn't a new concept from the New Testament. Some people will doubtless try to imply (though not openly) that this just means that whatever you feel is right as a Christian will inevitably be God's Law. However, I don't fully agree with this. What I believe the passage in Jeremiah is talking about is that God's Law (i.e. Torah) will be ever present in our minds as we think about it and it will be written on our hearts so that we will have a desire for it - our consciences accusing us when we do wrong and encouraging us when we observe it properly.
The only thing is that we disagree on what this Law is. In the Hebrew it is Torah, which often refers to the first five books of the Bible. And coming from a culture in which it had not only meant things like do not murder and do not commit adultery but also observe the Sabbath and do not wear clothes of wool and linen, I think its scope is more comprehensive than just the moral compass that we've been born with. If it's just what we feel is right as human beings, then the pagans and unbelieving of modern times already feel this way as well.
Romans 2:14-15 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
Unbelievers can have parts of the Law written on their hearts as well, but it's not the entire Law. And in Jeremiah and in the New Testament it talks about us not only having it written on our hearts but also having it put in our minds. In proper order it's first put in our minds and then it's put on our hearts to obey it. Right now I think it's important to know what God's Law is so that it can be put in our minds.
The Law being written on one's heart isn't a new concept from the New Testament. Some people will doubtless try to imply (though not openly) that this just means that whatever you feel is right as a Christian will inevitably be God's Law. However, I don't fully agree with this. What I believe the passage in Jeremiah is talking about is that God's Law (i.e. Torah) will be ever present in our minds as we think about it and it will be written on our hearts so that we will have a desire for it - our consciences accusing us when we do wrong and encouraging us when we observe it properly.
The only thing is that we disagree on what this Law is. In the Hebrew it is Torah, which often refers to the first five books of the Bible. And coming from a culture in which it had not only meant things like do not murder and do not commit adultery but also observe the Sabbath and do not wear clothes of wool and linen, I think its scope is more comprehensive than just the moral compass that we've been born with. If it's just what we feel is right as human beings, then the pagans and unbelieving of modern times already feel this way as well.
Romans 2:14-15 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
Unbelievers can have parts of the Law written on their hearts as well, but it's not the entire Law. And in Jeremiah and in the New Testament it talks about us not only having it written on our hearts but also having it put in our minds. In proper order it's first put in our minds and then it's put on our hearts to obey it. Right now I think it's important to know what God's Law is so that it can be put in our minds.
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Nope. . .strawman.
This just means that our hearts know what love is, and what it is not.
Nope. . .
In the New Covenant, God's law is Christ's law (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2), which is love (Mt 22:37-39),
and love fulfills (performs) the law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; Gal 5:6).
These are the Scriptures with which you must reckon.
What we think doesn't matter.
All that matters is what the word of God states.
Jesus states in Mt 22:37-39 that the law to which he is referring is the Ten Commandments,
not the first five books of the Bible.
Context: Paul is referring to God's principle for judging the pagans who do not possess the Mosaic law.
They will be judged by the light they have; i.e., their consciences (Ro 2:14-15).
Ro 2:14-15 has absolutely nothing to do with the promise in Heb 8:10 of Jer 31:33 to God's people,
to put his law in their minds and write it on their hearts.
You are confounding two texts of Scripture which are not related,
one is to the people of God regarding the coming indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Heb 8:10),
and the other is regarding the principle by which God judges the pagans (Ro 2:14-15).
This just means that our hearts know what love is, and what it is not.
Nope. . .
In the New Covenant, God's law is Christ's law (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2), which is love (Mt 22:37-39),
and love fulfills (performs) the law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; Gal 5:6).
These are the Scriptures with which you must reckon.
What we think doesn't matter.
All that matters is what the word of God states.
Jesus states in Mt 22:37-39 that the law to which he is referring is the Ten Commandments,
not the first five books of the Bible.
Context: Paul is referring to God's principle for judging the pagans who do not possess the Mosaic law.
They will be judged by the light they have; i.e., their consciences (Ro 2:14-15).
Ro 2:14-15 has absolutely nothing to do with the promise in Heb 8:10 of Jer 31:33 to God's people,
to put his law in their minds and write it on their hearts.
You are confounding two texts of Scripture which are not related,
one is to the people of God regarding the coming indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Heb 8:10),
and the other is regarding the principle by which God judges the pagans (Ro 2:14-15).
Of course not, neither is anyone of us. difference is David acknowledged that he had sinned (broken God's Law) and repented of it.
The Law describes love...
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love is found in obedience to God's Law.
The Law describes love...
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love is found in obedience to God's Law.
I read through this whole thread, and I admit it fills me with hope. When I became a Yehudim, or Judaizer if you prefer, it was many years ago and so few people knew any of the truth!!! An outpouring indeed.
Why is your salvation more valid than mine? Were you there when I prayed the sinner's prayer? Were you there when he forgave me of my sin again and again? None of you know my heart. You have no place judging others salvation. That is not your job. One has already been given that job. One whose sandals I am not fit to tie. If you want to sit in the judgement seat, you can explain to the King why you are sitting on his throne on the day he arrives.
Walking by the spirit doesn't mean that one gives up their common sense and their ability to think and reason. It doesn't mean act upon every random feeling their "spirit" tells them. It means stepping out in faith, testing oneself spiritually, and actively finding the truth, no matter the cost. It means believing that new revelations and new ideas are waiting for you around every corner. It doesn't mean settling comfortably into church bake sales and Wednesday night bible study, it means stretching out and TRYING to bring yourself closer to the father every single day.
The reality of the matter is you cannot understand the prophets until you understand the Biblical calendar. You cannot understand the sacrifice Messiah made on the cross for you until you understand the law and the acceptable year of the father. Do you not understand that every step, every moment of the last few days of Messiah's life fit the ritual and law of the passover in every possible way? Do you understand that was the fulfillment, not the abolishing of the law? He made the law TRUE not void! Do those of you who judge know how much more glorious and beautiful his sacrifice becomes when you understand it in deeper and more complete ways? Why do you sit in judgement of those of us who run after the truth with all of our might, every single day?
Don't you understand that the entire Bible is a story of a legal covenant between a god and his people? Do you understand that without that covenant, the legal agreement, there would have been no Messiah, and no Passover sacrifice for him to fulfill? Do you believe that the biblical patriarchs will spend their eternity in hell for being obedient? Do you know how smug and prideful it was to start this thread to begin with so that you could pat yourselves on the back like nice Sadducees and seat yourself at the front of the wedding banquet, above others with your smug certainty that your version of God is better than everyone elses? Do you believe that you, the majority, are the many who are called or the few who will answer? Perhaps you should ask yourself which side you're really on.
Honestly, if you truly think you have learned all there is to learn, that no one but you in your comfortable whitewashed sepulcher could possibly be right in this universe, then you are ready to die, because you are no longer flavorful salt. Your usefulness has worn itself out. You are no longer soft clay to be molded by the master, but hard and bitter and set in your form.
I will keep studying, thanks, and you enjoy your ivory tower over there. I am not on this earth to prove you wrong, or to be concerned with your Earthly judgement of me, but to learn all that I can of the truth. Your opinion is irrelevant to the truth.
When I became a Yehudim, or Judaizer if you prefer, it was many years ago and so few people knew any of the truth!!! An outpouring indeed. Why is your salvation more valid than mine? Were you there when I prayed the sinner's prayer? Were you there when he forgave me of my sin again and again? None of you know my heart. You have no place judging others salvation. That is not your job. One has already been given that job. One whose sandals I am not fit to tie. If you want to sit in the judgement seat, you can explain to the King why you are sitting on his throne on the day he arrives.
Walking by the spirit doesn't mean that one gives up their common sense and their ability to think and reason. It doesn't mean act upon every random feeling their "spirit" tells them. It means stepping out in faith, testing oneself spiritually, and actively finding the truth, no matter the cost. It means believing that new revelations and new ideas are waiting for you around every corner. It doesn't mean settling comfortably into church bake sales and Wednesday night bible study, it means stretching out and TRYING to bring yourself closer to the father every single day.
The reality of the matter is you cannot understand the prophets until you understand the Biblical calendar. You cannot understand the sacrifice Messiah made on the cross for you until you understand the law and the acceptable year of the father. Do you not understand that every step, every moment of the last few days of Messiah's life fit the ritual and law of the passover in every possible way? Do you understand that was the fulfillment, not the abolishing of the law? He made the law TRUE not void! Do those of you who judge know how much more glorious and beautiful his sacrifice becomes when you understand it in deeper and more complete ways? Why do you sit in judgement of those of us who run after the truth with all of our might, every single day?
Don't you understand that the entire Bible is a story of a legal covenant between a god and his people? Do you understand that without that covenant, the legal agreement, there would have been no Messiah, and no Passover sacrifice for him to fulfill? Do you believe that the biblical patriarchs will spend their eternity in hell for being obedient? Do you know how smug and prideful it was to start this thread to begin with so that you could pat yourselves on the back like nice Sadducees and seat yourself at the front of the wedding banquet, above others with your smug certainty that your version of God is better than everyone elses? Do you believe that you, the majority, are the many who are called or the few who will answer? Perhaps you should ask yourself which side you're really on.
Honestly, if you truly think you have learned all there is to learn, that no one but you in your comfortable whitewashed sepulcher could possibly be right in this universe, then you are ready to die, because you are no longer flavorful salt. Your usefulness has worn itself out. You are no longer soft clay to be molded by the master, but hard and bitter and set in your form.
I will keep studying, thanks, and you enjoy your ivory tower over there. I am not on this earth to prove you wrong, or to be concerned with your Earthly judgement of me, but to learn all that I can of the truth. Your opinion is irrelevant to the truth.