Attack of the Judaizers

Elin · Feb 10, 2014

Con't from post #2238:

And that law of God put in our minds and written on our hearts is Christ's law (Ro 9:21; Gal 6:2)
which is love (Mt 22:37-39), and which fulfills (performs) the law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8, 9, 10; Gal 5:6).

You are confounding two texts of Scripture which are not related,
one is to the people of God regarding the coming indwelling of the Holy Spirit (Heb 8:10),
and the other is regarding the principle by which God judges the pagans (Ro 2:14-15).

john832 · Feb 10, 2014

Elin said:

And Christ tells what His Law is...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

In fact He gave all ten of His Laws...

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

And this was Christ speaking.

Elin · Feb 10, 2014

john832 said:

That's not what the NT states.

Love fulfills the law (Ro 13: 8, 9, 10; Mt 22:40; Gal 5:6).

In the NT, love is the cause of obedience, not the result of (found in) obedience.

just-me · Feb 10, 2014

and it keeps on going and going and going.

Elin · Feb 10, 2014

john832 said:

Yes, in his two commandments of Mt 22:37-39, on which hang all the law.

Love fulfills (performs) the law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13, 8, 9, 10; Gal 5:6).

KittenofMelchisedek · Feb 10, 2014

I can't believe you guys argued for 113 pages.

We are supposed to warn our brethren, and love them....not wage war on them, come on people, step into line already =)

just-me · Feb 10, 2014

Elin said:

Deuteronomy 6:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Leviticus 19:11-18 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Deuteronomy 13:1-4 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

Luke 10:25-28 (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Is there a difference between the the arbitrary statements in the Gospels and the instructions thereof in the Old testament law? I don't see a controversy between the two.

Elin · Feb 10, 2014

just-me said:

Is there a differenc between the U.S. Congress and the U.S. law, or the U.S. Judge and the U.S. law?

just-me · Feb 10, 2014

Elin said:

What does that have to do with God's word?
I suppose we can go on and on with questions that divert from the truth. your choice.

Originally Posted by just-me

Is there a difference between the law and Jesus?

That isn't the question I asked anyway. I asked; "Is there a difference between the the arbitrary statements in the Gospels and the instructions thereof in the Old testament law? I don't see a controversy between the two." Post #2247

MrsRoseTreasure · Feb 10, 2014

"This false gospel severs a person from salvation. They are not fit for the kingdom and those who follow them are at risk of being cut off from Christ."

"This kind of language is uncalled for. Discussing a matter does not mean we need to resort to judging others and being condescending, right? "

HThis entire thread was not meant to be a discussion, but condescending toward those who don't believe as you do. The very title of this thread is condemnation and judgement of others. The entire conversation has been about how people like me are so very wrong and living in sin. You're saying that you can judge my salvation, but when I question that judgement, and judge yours in return, I am the one using "that kind of language." The same language Messiah used. Got it. I see how you view his words. My judgement was based on the words of Messiah. Yours is based on your opinion and scriptures pulled out of context. That plank in your eye looks painful.

If you read the Bible, you would understand that every word I spoke in condemnation toward your smugness and pride in your judgement of other's salvation comes from the mouth of Messiah. I spoke of the crucifixion and the Passover lamb, all NT. I am not the one throwing away half of the bible. I don't see OT and NT. I see one book...the complete works of My Father's hand. By dismissing one half of what he wrote, one dismisses Him.

The blind cannot lead. My soul does not need to be saved by you. I refuse to go back to drinking the milk now that I am eating the meat. Paul didn't throw away the law, and neither did the council. He made it easier for the gentiles to follow it. Twisting of Paul's meaning only displays how ignorance of the law will cause destruction. Paul was a dedicated Jew. He observed the Sabbath, abstained from unclean things, and understood the Torah at a level that anyone else can only stand in awe of.

2 Peter 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

I am born again, forgiven, and driven by the baptism of the spirit to learn the truth. Not your version of the truth. Not the version that comes from the pulpit each Sunday to tickle the ears of the lukewarm congregation of Laodicea. The actual truth. My life is blessed with all great things because of my obedience. I truly have a new heart, and have become a new creation. His praise is on my lips continually, and I pray without ceasing. The glory of his sacrifice fills my life every day. Your assertion that I am lacking the spirit is ridiculous and foolishly naive, and has you placing yourself in the throne of Christ.

The last days are upon us. We are likely the last generations to stand upon this Earth under the rule of man. When my King comes and asks what I did in these last days, I will humbly be able to say I pursued the truth. I fought to get the evil out of the seed. I refused to compromise his commandments. I obeyed. I tried to drag one more soul into the boat.

I won't be saying I spent my time making other people wrong, discussing how much greater my salvation is because of my vaulted understanding and my own great spiritual supriority. It won't be telling him how much better I am because of what I believe.

My last day on this Earth will be spent spreading the truth and dispelling the lies. It will be spent doing what I am doing right now. Defending the truth. That is my job. It's the charge I've been given. It is my sole goal in this world.

Again I say the job of judge has already been given to the King. If you would like to take his place, that is your decision. My heart bleeds for you.

MrsRoseTreasure · Feb 10, 2014

Why are the two things mutually exclusive?

john832 · Feb 10, 2014

MrsRoseTreasure said:

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Elin · Feb 10, 2014

just-me said:

The "arbitrary statements of the Gospels" show that the "instructions thereof in the" Ten Commandments are kept (fulfilled) simply in loving God and loving one's neighbor.

There is no controversy in simply loving God and one's neighbor as the way
"the instructions thereof in the Old testament" are fully obeyed.

just-me · Feb 10, 2014

Elin said:

If one doesn't acknowledge the law as spiritual and don't even consider the spiritual principles thereof, they have no alternative but to make up their own rules concerning what the love of God is because they don't know any better. The Word came first, and through the Word came the Holy Spirit. Without the Word that was from the beginning, there is nothing to be reminded of, henceforth the Word of God is of no effect.

John 8:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

John 14:26 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Mark 7:9-13 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

john832 · Feb 10, 2014

Elin said:

So, if one "loves his neighbor" yet steals from him it is still alright because he "loves his neighbor"? Or is not stealing from him a form of loving him.

just-me · Feb 10, 2014

Exodus 34:28 (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Deuteronomy 4:13 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.

Deuteronomy 10:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me.

Now this needs to be understood. Exodus 20 through 23 are directives that Moses wrote on the 3rd day of the 3rd month being Sivan. The "Ten Commandments" as we know them, are in what Moses wrote with his own hand on that same day. After they were written, God called him up to the mountain in Exodus 24:12. From that point, to the end of the chapter describes the first day that Moses went up to the mount to receive the tablets of stone 9 days later.

In the 3 scriptures that I posted, I looked into the original Hebrew and found the the "Ten Commandments" as defined actually read the "Ten Words" instead. These "Ten Words" are described as God handing out His testimony, the law and our responsibility according to the covenant.

So with that said, knowing that there will be extreme heartburn, the "Ten Commandments" as we know them are NOT written on stone, but rather by Moses. There is only one possible exception, and that would be that God was redundant in what was given in Exodus 20 through 23 during the 40 days Moses was on the mount.

Elin · Feb 10, 2014

just-me said:

That's human reasoning talking, not the word of God nor the indwelling Holy Spirit talking.

Has the Holy Spirit written the law on your heart?
Then you know in your heart that loving God means obeying him.
And obeying him means obeying the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Gal 6:2; Mt 22:37-39; Gal 5:6).
And the law of Christ is found in all the NT commands.

So those are what are to be studied and put in your mind.

Elin · Feb 10, 2014

john832 said:

Contradiction between the terms "loving" and "stealing."

Evidently the Holy Spirit has not written the law on his heart.

"Love" will not let him "steal."

It's not complicated.

just-me · Feb 10, 2014

Elin said:

1 John 4:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

If you deny part of the Word of God you also deny being fully equipped, or thoroughly furnished. Try not to be caught without a full load.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Romans 9:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Is faith negated by acknowledging the truth of God's Word in Mosaic Law as was preserved for us?

Galatians 3:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

just-me · Feb 10, 2014

Would anyone care to comment on post #2256?

Attack of the Judaizers

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