THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

Elin · Feb 11, 2014

This "modern teaching" goes all the way back to Paul.

It's pretty plain, don't you think?

God calls the New Jerusalem the Bride of Christ because the New Jerusalem is the Church, the Bride of Christ, God's people.

You should read Eph 5:31-32 again, it is pretty clear:

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh.
This is a profound mystery--but I'm talking about Christ and the church."

The church, composed of believing Jews and Gentiles til the end of time,

is the body of Christ (Eph 1:22-23; 1Co 12:27; Col 1:18, 24)

in the two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union.

Karraster · Feb 11, 2014

Was the term "church" in original scripture?

Was it maybe "Eclecia" which means "the called out". I think so.

Elin · Feb 11, 2014

Karraster said:

Yes, in the NT Greek, it is ekklesia, meaning "called-out assembly," and refers to NT believers.

dcontroversal · Feb 11, 2014

Elin said:

No offence to you, but let us notice a few things about Paul.....

He was taught by direct revelation from God
Was inspired to write 12 possibly 13 books of the bible and IT WAS A MYSTERY UNTO PAUL WHICH KNEW WAY MORE THAN YOU OR I PUT TOGETHER and yet you have it all figured out....and it is simple!

I agree with (The church, composed of believing Jews and Gentiles til the end of time)

You know, that is the conclusion that I have come to. The unification of God with his people in New Jerusalem. Thanks for the reply and the thoughts!

I think we are saying the same thing and I am not being mouthy or contentious so please don't take the post that way Elin.

Elin · Feb 12, 2014

dcontroversal said:

Hi!

Okay, you are using the word "mystery" in its secular sense, and not in the NT sense.

A mystery is not something hard to comprehend, it is something that has never before been revealed.

So when Paul states that the marital union of Christ and the church is a mystery,
he is not saying that it is hard to comprehend, he is saying it is something formerly hidden or obscure
but now revealed for all to know and understand (Col 1:26).
Christian mysteries are not secret knowledge, but revelations of divine truths once hidden and now
openly proclaimed.

He says the same
of the hardening of part of Israel,
of Gentiles being heirs with Israel,
of the resurrection body,
of God's will to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, that is Christ,
of the church, through which the manifold wisdom of God is made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms,
of the gospel,
of Christ,
of Christ in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge,
of Christ in you, the hope of glory,
of iniquity,
of the truths of the faith,
of godliness.

I'll try not to.

RedTent · Feb 12, 2014

This teaching is a very fundamental, far reaching and deep truth that we aren't just to know about God, but we are to live. Through Christ, we have the Holy Spirit within us, that is part of it. We are told to be true to that, so this is front and center in our lives. Everything we do must reflect being true to this, just as a bride is to be true to her husband.

Scripture gives us what is true and right about our belonging to God, we are to listen. There are illustrations of not being true in the OT, as they said the power in the world was in idols, not in God. When we give power to secular teachings that oppose the teachings of our God, we are doing the same thing.

The_highwayman · Feb 12, 2014

The doctrine that the gentile church is the bride of Christ has its roots in replacement theology, which is a serious error in many, many Protestant denominations.

RedTent · Feb 12, 2014

Yahshua said:

I think God's plan operates on multiple dimensions and depending on the purpose that God means to accomplish, I think The Church either represents "Christ's body" or Christ's *1st* bride...but I don't think it is *THE* Bride (New Jerusalem).

- Jacob is called "Israel",

- Israel is called "God's firstborn",

- But Christ is truly God's firstborn (in fulfillment)...

So I believe the story of Jacob's labor with Laban (in genesis) prophesies the plan of God through Christ, and details that Christ has "two brides".

----

The story of Jacob's labor details two wives given to him. Jacob was promised his beloved Rachel for his initial labor but was instead given Leah as his bride. Leah wasn't the bride he wanted...he wanted his beloved Rachel, so he had to labor some more until he was finally given her. So Jacob had two brides: the one given to him first and the one he actually wanted, given to him last. And even though he loved them both, his last bride was his "beloved".

Jacob's first wife couldn't see very well but gave him the most offspring, while his second wife was barren, giving him no children. In the mean time, Jacob was given bond maidens to birth more offspring until God finally opened the womb of his second wife, giving him the least offspring...but they were his favorites.

Christ desires the city of New Jerusalem but was instead given The Church for now, whom he still loves...but it's not his beloved city. Christ was then tasked with more work to receive the bride he desired all along.

The Two Brides split by the Groom’s labor (prophesied by Jacob)

[TABLE="class: cms_table_outer_border, width: 550, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]1. Jacob (called “Israel”) wanted Rachel but is given Leah for his initial labor[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]1. Christ (called “Israel”) was given his bride (the church) for the initial work he “finished”[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]2. Jacob works some more for Laban to receive his beloved...[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2. I believe this is Christ ascending to God to “prepare a place"; New Jerusalem[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]3. Jacob finally received his beloved Rachel as his bride AFTER additional labor[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]3. Christ will come again to receive his beloved New Jerusalem AFTER he’s finishes his additional work[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

We can go even deeper with this scripture’s comparisons for more prophetic details...

The Children of God received from each bride (prophesied by Jacob's sons)

[TABLE="class: cms_table_outer_border, width: 550, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]1. Leah ("Israel’s" first bride) had "poor eyesight", but birthed the most sons (6)[/TD]
[TD]1. Unable to see well, Christ’s early church couldn't understand the timing of the kingdom (Acts 1:7), but through them gave Christ the most followers/children of God[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Jacob was given bondmaids for (4) more sons, while beloved Rachel was still barren[/TD]
[TD]2. Christ was given the gentile nations to produce more followers/children; while New Jerusalem is still barren as the world awaits the "children of God" to manifest (Romans 8:9)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Rachel (the desired bride) finally conceived last, giving "Israel" the fewest sons (2)...but they were his favorites.[/TD]
[TD]3. New Jerusalem (Rev 21:2), the bride Christ wants, will birth last and give him the fewest "children" (144,000; Rev 7) compared to all of his other children (The Great Multitude; Rev 7)...and they'll be his closest.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The kingdom of God is his children, but just like with Jacob's sons, each group will have different characteristics based on the "woman/nation" they came from:

- The shining city of New Jerusalem (Rachel) is the Bride Christ truly desires, but she's currently barren and/or hasn't been given to Christ.

- For his initial labor Christ was given The Early Church from Israel (Leah), whom he still united with in love (i.e. baptism of Holy Spirit) to produce the most children. And having characteristics of their "mother" (Israel); these children couldn't see the timing of the kingdom, but obeyed the oracles of God, had the faith of Christ, but they still had corrupt flesh and still died.

- Then Christ was given The Gentile Nations (bond maidens) in the mean time whom he also united with in love (i.e. baptism of Holy Spirit) to produce more children. And having characteristics of their "mothers" (gentiles/pagan backgrounds); these children do not obey the oracles of God, but still have the faith of Christ. Yet they also still have corrupt flesh and still die.

- Again New Jerusalem (Rachel) is barren. But when she is finally given to Christ - and her womb opened - she will produce beloved children who obey the oracles of God (unlike the gentiles because she's not a bond maiden), have the faith of Christ, and also have incorruptible flesh and will never die.

-----

OR from the perspective/dimension of Christ's work, I think The Church more so represents Christ's Body, because of these parallels:

As a whole, the church fulfills Christ’s passion

[TABLE="class: cms_table_outer_border, width: 550, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD]1. Christ's body is broken during his scourging, like the bread he broke.[/TD]
[TD]1. Body of Christ is broken into multiple denominations; many daily breads[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2. Christ is blindfolded and doesn't prophesy when asked[/TD]
[TD]2. Body of Christ can't see prophecy nor speak it accurately[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3. Christ is given a crown of thorns over his head (thorns = "cares of world, riches & lusts" Matt 13:22; Mark 4:18-19)[/TD]
[TD]3. Body of Christ (as a whole) is more distracted by the cares of this world, attaining riches and lusts of things.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4. Christ is severely beaten until image is unrecognizable (Isa 52:14)[/TD]
[TD]4. Because of persecution by the world, Christ's original image is no longer recognizable in Body of Christ as a whole[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5. Christ is given a purple/scarlet robe to wear, depending on gospel (Matthew 27:27-28; John 19:1-2)[/TD]
[TD]5. The Great Whore wears purple/scarlet color in Rev 17:4 [Catholicism is included in The Body][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6. Christ is given a staff and mocked as an authority by Roman soldiers[/TD]
[TD]6. Body of Christ is mocked as a religious authority by the nations[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7. All sin falls on Christ and he becomes the serpent on the pole (Jn 3:14)[/TD]
[TD]7. Body of Christ (generally speaking) integrated pagan/mystery rituals & doctrines; falling away from the pure gospel[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8. Holy Spirit of God leaves Christ during his crucifixion[/TD]
[TD]8. No significant Holy Spirit miracles for Body of Christ during this time, unlike early church[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9. Judgment falls on Christ for world's sins, and he dies...for God so loves the world.[/TD]
[TD]9. I believe tribulation has and must fall on the body of Christ for the world's sins, because how can the world be judged if it wasn't taught the pure truth from God's priests?[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10. Christ was dead for 3 days/nights; and rose back to life on 3rd day[/TD]
[TD]10. Body of Christ has been going to the grave for 2 days (2000 yrs per 2 Pet 3:8) so far. The very next millennium is the 3rd day when Christ body will rise again.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Of course there are exceptions but on the whole, I feel Christ's body is crucified and sown into the world to reconcile the world to God in fulfillment of Christ's own crucifixion and burial; that's the body's task (to follow Christ, its head)...and then THE Bride is taken from Christ's Body as the body sleeps (in death/grave) in fulfillment of Adam and Eve from Genesis. Finally, when the bride is fully created, Christ's Body will wake from its sleep (resurrection) and enter into the marriage supper with The Bride, again in fulfillment of Adam and Eve.

The Creation of the Bride (prophesied by Adam & Christ)

[TABLE="class: cms_table_outer_border, width: 550, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]1. God caused Adam to fall into a deep sleep[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]1. Christ (the 2nd Adam) entered into the sleep of death (on the cross)[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]1. The Body/Carcass has been dying for 2 days [Matt. 24:28][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]2. Adam's side was opened; out came a rib from his body[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2. Christ's side was pierced open (by the soldier); out came blood & water.[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2. A portion of Christians will be removed (or set apart) from The greater Body.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]3. The rib was molded into a woman (i.e. “from the man”)[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]3. It is written that Christ's bride would have "the living water"[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]3. I believe this portion becomes the 144,000, separate from The Great Multitude/The Body[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]4. The woman was named "Chavah" (Hebrew; translated to Eve) which means "life"[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]4. The blood & water are the symbols of "life"[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]3. This group will not die/sleep, but will remain alive [1 Cor. 15:51][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]5. The man awakes & the woman became his bride in marriage[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]5. The Bridegroom resurrects & ushers in kingdom w/the early Church (bride)[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]5. The Body of Christ will resurrect (from death) and those who remain alive join them in the air to be changed (Marriage to Christ)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

------

I believe both of these views of The Bride may be true depending on the perspective.

Thanks so much for teaching us and helping us understand!

Don't you think, though, that the body of Christ has remnants who are drawing closer to true worship? Now, many are looking closer at the holidays celebrating our Lord with the idea of using only what is from scripture in the celebration as an example of what I am speaking of? Not many years ago I would have refused to even think about any of these things.

The_highwayman · Feb 12, 2014

Elin said:

The new Jerusalem is not a new church, it is a city and described and measured as a city. Rev 21.22 says it DOES NOT have a temple, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. The new Jerusalem sits on the new earth. So because of Rev 21.22 we know New Jerusalem is not a temple or a "church".

I see no evidence in EPH 5 that the church is compromised of Jews and Gentile believers. Paul was writing to the largest church on the planet at that time. He does not mention the Jews in this entire passage.

One should rightly divide Gen 2 with EPH 5 to gain true knowledge about what Paul was saying in EPH 5 and it has nothing to do with the church being the bride of Christ or the church being composed of Jew and Gentile believers until the end of time.

The Bible tells us plainly in Rev 21 who the Bride is and because John also said he saw no temple in the new Jerusalem we know New Jerusalem is not a church, therefore, rightly divide Gen 2 with EPH 5 and proper understanding of EPH 5 will be revealed to you.

Be mindful not to fall into the trap that is replacement theology!

watcher2013 · Feb 12, 2014

Elin said:

The new Jerusalem is the Bride...but not the Church

Let me give you an example:

a letter to the angel of the church in Philadelphia

Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

the New Jerusalem..(heavenly Jerusalem)
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The Church is here and present, the New Jerusalem is a future realization...

The verses you quoted was in reference to the verses prior to that: "for this reason"

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Eph 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
Eph 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

What is the reason:
Look at verse 23:

a figurative example given by paul to describe the authority of Christ to the Church, is how a husband love his wife...
1. Husband Head of Wife
2. Christ Head of Church...he is the saviour of Body....not saviour of the Bride...

The rest of the verses explains how the Lord Love the body..

Look at verse 28: (loving your wife is loving your body)

Men that Love his wife love himself:

Look at verse 29: The figurative of Lord loving his flesh

No man hated his own flesh....(own body)

Look at verse 30:

For we are MEMBERS OF HIS BODY, HIS FLESH AND OF HIS BONES...

We are already members or one with Christ... (Christ the Head, We the members of his body)

Here is a question regarding the above verses:

When will the two Become one flesh? at the Marriage/Wedding, right?
But when is the wedding? (FUTUE) Rev 19:7

But, The Church is already one with Christ...

If so, what is the wedding we look forward to?

The Wedding:

the Groom - the Head(Christ) with his body (the Church)
The Bride - the New Jerusalem

only then we will become one with the Bride...the saints dwelling in the Holy city the New Jerusalem (the Bride). God dwelling with his people...

The Church is the Body..this is true...

Elin · Feb 12, 2014

watcher2013 said:

Heb 12:22-23 disagrees with you.

"You have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God, to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, to the church of the firstborn,"

as does Gal 4:25-26:

"the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she
(not Hagar, represented by the present Jerusalem, who is in slavery with her children)
is our mother."

Elin · Feb 12, 2014

The_highwayman said:

I guess Paul and the author of Heb got it wrong in Eph 5:31-32; Gal 4:25-26, and Heb 12:22-23,
presented in post #31, here, and in the following:

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh.
This is a profound mystery--but I'm talking about Christ and the church." (Eph 5:31-32)

The church, composed of believing Jews and Gentiles til the end of time,

is the body of Christ (Eph 1:22-23; 1Co 12:27; Col 1:18, 24)

in the two-in-one enfleshment of the marital union.

There is some serious misunderstanding (denial) the NT teaching going on here.

parablepete · Feb 12, 2014

dcontroversal said:

I see no problem with what you posted. When I read it the first time. I thought, two brides?

Seems to me like John got a view of the Lords People in the New Jerusalem, where we are left will go if found faithful.

Elin · Feb 12, 2014

Yahshua said:

WH-O-O-O-A!

God and Christ are bigamists?

That is some serious misunderstanding of the word of God.

God and Christ have only one wife, the people of God who have believed

in the Promise (Christ Jesus, Ge 3:15) since Adam.

Good grief, Charlie Brown!

Elin · Feb 12, 2014

The_highwayman said:

What Gentile church?

The church is both Jew and Gentile believers.

lookuptoseeJesus · Feb 12, 2014

the bride is the 144,000 who keep the commandments.
the others are the guest at the wedding feast.

A bride follows a husband everywhere he goes

Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Rev 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Rev 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

the rest of the great multitude at the wedding are happy too.

dcontroversal · Feb 12, 2014

Elin said:

Hey Elin, you seem to know a bit so I will ask..do you know the difference between present tense and past tense.

Paul used a (be) verb as in... (is) a profound Mystery, not that it (WAS) a profound mystery.

"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,
and the two will become one flesh.
This is a profound mystery--but I'm talking about Christ and the church."

Elin, I agree that we can (know) the mysteries through much study, prayer and guidance from the Holy Spirit. If there is one thing I have learned is that (one) word will make or break a context and God inspired Paul exactly what to write...He said that it IS A PROFOUND MYSTERY and I will have to go with the present tense found in the (be) verb which points to state of being and a present tense.

dcontroversal · Feb 12, 2014

watcher2013 said:

I know and what is tragic is the total disregard for the definite article used in Revelation as applied unto the bride which points to what is known and is absolute when used in context. I have said for some time that there is more to it than most theologians teach, and yet the same regurgitated theology is...well continually regurgitated while disregarding the following principles....

Every Word of God is inspired....
One word makes or breaks the context...

Elin · Feb 12, 2014

dcontroversal said:

The New Jerusalem is the bride of the Lamb (Rev 21:9), who is Christ Jesus.

New Jerusalem = Bride of the Lamb, Christ

If Jesus is the head, and the church is the body, of Christ (Eph 1:22-23),
then you've made the New Jerusalem the bride of Christ's body, the church.

New Jerusalem = Bride of the Church

But in Heb 12:22, the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God is the church (v. 23).
In Gal 4:25-26, the Jerusalem that is above is the mother/church (NT believers).

So the bride is marrying herself?

New Jerusalem = Bride of New Jerusalem

This interpretation of prophetic riddles leads to bizarre contra-Biblical conclusions.

C'mon, guys, surely you can see this interpretation of prophetic riddles is nonsense

according to the clear teaching of the NT.

Elin · Feb 12, 2014

watcher2013 said:

Yes, the New Jerusalem is the church (Gal 4:25-26; Heb 12:22-23),

the Bride of the Lamb (Rev 21:9), Jesus Christ (Jn 1:29, 36; 1Pe 1:19; Rev 13:8).

THE BRIDE OF CHRIST

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