dcontroversal, why is your response in the context of of blind opposition? Why do you believe (apparently) that the wages of sin is not death, but eternal life (in hell,i.e., your interpretation)?
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dcontroversal, why is your response in the context of of blind opposition? Why do you believe (apparently) that the wages of sin is not death, but eternal life (in hell,i.e., your interpretation)?
H
Hikikomori
Guest
I'm just throwing this out here, what comes to mind.
When you said those things about fear is the road to enlightenment (my take on it); what if Jesus/God speaks of a hell, to get this effect from us? Technically there wouldn't need to be a hell, as long as we would believe it was real. I'm not at all implying that Jesus is a liar, please don't get me wrong, but he might be trying to steer us in the right direction the best way possible?
Once again, I'm speaking impulsively here. Just a passing thought.
When you said those things about fear is the road to enlightenment (my take on it); what if Jesus/God speaks of a hell, to get this effect from us? Technically there wouldn't need to be a hell, as long as we would believe it was real. I'm not at all implying that Jesus is a liar, please don't get me wrong, but he might be trying to steer us in the right direction the best way possible?
Once again, I'm speaking impulsively here. Just a passing thought.
Jesus is not the only one who speaks of hell or the idea of hell as numerous men have been inspired to write about it (in the bible), not to mention that it is impossible for God to lie and the bible speaks of Jesus' sinless nature. He always told the truth and to be deceptive is a form of lying. He spoke the truth about hell and expects us to believe it.
1. Ecclesiastes 3:14 clearly teaches that everything that God does is eternal...
2. Numerous writers are inspired to write of hell as literal
3. Luke 16 is a real story with real named people not an parable
4. Hells final destiny is the lake of fire where John is inspired to write of the (smoke of their torment) that shall ascend for ALL ETERNAL AGES
5. It is a place of separation that has been prepared to hold all men that are found in sin as well as the angels which left their first estate
6. Hell is used by God to impart fear into men so as to set them on the course of righteousness
7. Hell/Lake of fire is called the second death
8. I have no problem in a literal place of eternal sufferings as opposed to a place of eternal bliss..
9. Death means separation and is not the end as once a human being comes into existence they are eternal...Refer to Ecclesiastes 3:14 the only thing to answer is where do you, I, we want to spend eternity?
10. With God it is almost all dual...
right wrong
true false
good bad
righteous evil
light dark
day night
serve God serve the devil
in church not in church
believe don't believe
eternal paradise eternal torment
Look, you either believe or you don't period. There is enough evidence for me to convince me of the reality of hell and ultimately the lake of fire.
I will add that I do not oppose anything blindly as I study thoroughly to come to the conclusions that I come to.
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In hell it will not be a physical fire but a state of mind of re-living the pain that a person caused while they were here on earth. The soul will be in this mental state without any assistance from God; they'll be like how someone that is depress, unable to focus on other things, but their own problems, and this is how it is going to be for the ones that has produce suffering on others. They can be in a dark closet and never will come to terms that they are in a dark place, but focusing on their problems as if they are suffering from Alzheimer.
Galatians 6:7
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
K
Kerry
Guest
It will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth and sheer pain and suffering for eternity.
So the smoke of their torment that ascends before the throne of God for all eternal ages is......
Oh I get it...The imaginary fake smoke of their non existent, imagined torment ascends before no real throne for eternal ages that don't exist because God is fake and doesn't INSPIRE MEN TO WRITE WHAT WAS WRITTEN!
Romans 12:20
On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” (It literally says hot coals)
1 Corinthians 7:9
But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. ( they had added the passion to it) (State of mind)
AM I become your enemy because I believe what the bible states and have made a stand on the word of God instead of twisting it out of context? Just saying that is...
John 6:63
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.
2 Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
We can't take the word of God literally, or we will be like this person.
<strong>[video=youtube_share;mIWd3T1xjec]http://youtu.be/mIWd3T1xjec[/video]
Well I don't believe that as the men who wrote it took the majority of it as literal...even the allegory pointed to the real!
Jesus was speaking to them metaphorically about what is written, but the disciples has taken it literally and took out two swords, and there were a time about they had thought that Jesus was talking about bread of the pharisees, but He wasn't referring to that as well. The disciples weren't spiritually incline.
Luke 22:36 He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”
38 The disciples said, “See, Lord, here are two swords.”
“That’s enough!” he replied.
K
Kerry
Guest
so Jesus told a white lie because He used a parable. That's a sin, but he did not sin. I am so confused. confusion is not of God. Jesus spoke truth through parables so that being blind they could not see and hearing they could not hear as spoken by the prophet Isaiah .
Hey man, if you want to believe that the word of God is fanciful stories then have a ball. You will not change my mind about the validity of the word of God, nor will you convince me that it is fanciful stories that have no real meaning! The disciples were limited in their knowledge, did not have the completed word of God and made many errors in their thinking and or assumptions when it came to the word of God just as men/women do today when the trivialize the word of God away to stories and allegories!
Think for a minute. The first missionaries (Europeans) did not reach China, Africa, and other far away places until fairly recent in church history. Prior to that, hundreds of millions of these heathen people were born, lived and died. They did so outside of God's covenants and plan of salvation. These people had no knowledge of scripture and could not therefore, by any stretch of imagination, have been "saved." Are they, as immortal soul teaching requires, screaming and writhing in pain for hundreds and thousands of years now. Does a loving merciful God torture and burn alive hundreds of millions of young and old because they did not have an opportunity to hear and obey Him? The answer, thank God, is no, for as Paul said, "...sin is not imputed were there is no law" (Rom. 5:13).
To teach then that the dead are not really dead, and that God has sentenced them to an eternity of torture in fire is not only a contradiction of the Word of God, but a theological perversion of the worst sort.
N
nathan3
Guest
its not in existence yet. The hell the rich man was at, when you follow it all threw to the end, is a torment of his own making, meaning he could see Abraham, and Lazarus ,that they have that immortal soul, meaning they made it. But his fate was still in question, and cant join in and be apart of all the things he sees there. This is torment to him. When he asked for water, think that Christ is the living water, that when you partake that brings about eternal life. Its truth .
Pual , would say of people wanting to be together in passion, he said its better to marry then to burn. This dose not mean litteral burning., So likewise the rich mans burning in flames, is also used in a figure of speech for his particular situation.
God would not send people to hell, for the short time we have in life, to figure things out.
So the rich man is this paradise, as Christ would put it, or prison as Peter worded it. But, its all heaven, according to scripture overall, because as Ecclesiastes and Christ, Peter, where ever you want to start reading, says to be absent from the Body is present with the Lord . It's not, to be absent from the body, is in hell or in heaven. Scripture is not just that simple, there is more, detail given then that. . It can be a literal divide, or a figure of speech, meaning hes basically an outsider there, until farther notice, like the Lords Day written of in Rev 20.
So there's more here then meets the eye at first glance, until we study with understanding these things. And the actually lake of Fire, where a soul can die, is not even in existence yet. The Bible teaches all this
Pual , would say of people wanting to be together in passion, he said its better to marry then to burn. This dose not mean litteral burning., So likewise the rich mans burning in flames, is also used in a figure of speech for his particular situation.
God would not send people to hell, for the short time we have in life, to figure things out.
So the rich man is this paradise, as Christ would put it, or prison as Peter worded it. But, its all heaven, according to scripture overall, because as Ecclesiastes and Christ, Peter, where ever you want to start reading, says to be absent from the Body is present with the Lord . It's not, to be absent from the body, is in hell or in heaven. Scripture is not just that simple, there is more, detail given then that. . It can be a literal divide, or a figure of speech, meaning hes basically an outsider there, until farther notice, like the Lords Day written of in Rev 20.
So there's more here then meets the eye at first glance, until we study with understanding these things. And the actually lake of Fire, where a soul can die, is not even in existence yet. The Bible teaches all this
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I would like to put forth this thread and all other such christian debates as evidence to the contrary.
T
tkyles1009
Guest
Hi my friend,
First of all, one thing we can take comfort in is no one is burning in Hell at this moment.
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2 Peter 2:9
Also no one will be punished or rewarded until Jesus returns
so shall it be in the end of this world.
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:40-42
Now, don't go thinking that Hell is where you're going that's a choice. You can give Jesus control and while that doesn't mean we don't make mistakes anymore it means we grow to learn to heed His voice day by day and obey His commands.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9
In the verse from 1 John above we're presented with a process.
We confess with honest and remorseful hearts
Jesus forgives by the blood of His sacrifice at the cross for those who accept Him.
then there's a final step which a lot of christians leave out..
He cleanses us! He begins to abide in us and gives us the strength to day by day learn to obey Him.
We have to remember that it is the will of God that no man shall perish but that all should come to repentance( 2 Peter 3:9)
Again this verse shows choice
knowing to do right and to obey God and choosing not to do it leads to death and eternal separation from God....
but on the other hand if we pray and repent and say Lord! I'm such a sinner, please forgive me. Search me and know my heart, O, God. Please take this iniquity away from me. Dwell in me with your spirit and help me live in a way that honors you, Lord.
Then we have the right to become sons and daughters of God and rightful heirs(John 1:12) to the kingdom to come.
So please don't speak defeat instead rejoice
because I can promise you, you're not a bigger sinner than Jesus is a savior.
God bless
Jesus has given them the Holy Spirit to teach them to how to understand the spiritual meaning (discernment) of the word of God. Back then, they were told to keep the word of God with them at all times in their minds and in their heart, but instead they tied boxes with scrolls on their foreheads and tied them around their arms and chest. God had waited patiently for them to mature, but they didn't. So God has to do what He must do, but His weak spot that He had for the people has stepped in and had taken over. Now God let His weak spot to reign over His soul, and that is why we all have to do what He has given us.
Matthew 13:15
For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’
Luke 23:34
Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.” And they divided up his clothes by casting lots.
Luke 17:4
Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ‘I repent,’ you must forgive them.”
Philippians 3:15
All of us, then, who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
Romans 5:3
Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance;
James 1:4
Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.
H