Was Obama right?

[3Scoreand10]

posthuman, tell me then, when was the kingdom of God taken from America and given to Botswana or some other "more of a Christian nation?"

When was the kingdom of God given to America?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You missed the point and exactly what did Ezekiel mean when he discussed at length about warning the wicked man of his way and YOU being held accountable if YOU choose to keep YOUR mouth shut and refuse to warn the wicked of their ways.

No, I did not miss the point. And who was ezekial talking to? Children of God who already professed God or the world, who does not profess God? A huge difference?

The Pharisees were lost men who held themselves above the people and is not compared to a saved person (preaching) on the corner doing EXACTLY WHAT JESUS TELLS US TO DO WHICH IS----->WARN THE WICKED OF THEIR WAYS...

You failed to answer the question. Who went around judginjg Sinners? The pharisees or Jesus? Hint. Jesus said I did not come to judge, I came to save. So why are you telling us we need to go judge?

 

[3Scoreand10]

You will notice that bottom visual is color coded based upon growth only, not on a total number of Christians. Even then, many of the people classified as Christian in these nations would be Maryology type Catholics, Mormons, and other cult types. These maps are not showing the type of Christian in America's "Bible belt." These other nations do not have a "Bible belt." America does, but they do not.

The top visual is color coded to include a type of Christian whose concept of God is a woman in a blue robe, the woman they pray to as God. These nations, put together, would not have as many real Bible believing Christians as in America alone. If, as you claim, they are so much more Christian than America why is it always America who is sending them missionaries and Bibles? Why is it never the other way around?
It doesn't take much in the way of critical thinking skills to debunk the criterion used by the above secular sources in defining what is a real Christian.

Of the 78.4% that call themself Christian, 23.9% are Catholic and 1.7% are Mormon.
By your definition, the % is going down.

 

[dcontroversal]

yeah you did miss the point and I don't recall using any statement about judging as the post was about warning people and how under new laws you will be found using hate speech!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal Question....

Is it biblical to have a man made law that allows men to worship God anyway they please?....John 4

Go stand on a corner in a big city and preach while slamming homosexuals, abortion and a few other contrary ways of life and see how long it takes to be arrested under the banner of hate speech.

The government has labeled all who believe in the bible as (cult members)

If you mouth Christianity you are accepted and even embraced by the majority of society, but if you make a stand on Christian values and teaching you are labeled a bigot, uneducated, backwards, stupid, a fool etc....

This country has run it's course and all signs point to a fall and judgment by God.

Even a study of secular history concerning (The Empire that was Rome) will show that this nation is following the same course/path that Rome took and the end result will always be the same when biblical Christianity is sidelined in favor of wickedness and anti-Christian values.

 

[3Scoreand10]

I

I would disagree on a few points.

1. They can not force you to do anything. Christians in Paul's day lived in the most immoral of circumstances. They not only had to deal with homosexual sin as the norm. But many types of immoral practices. Add on top of that paganism and its destructive practices. If you put pagan asia and europe next to modern day US. The Modern day US would still seem like a christian nation.

2. We are NOT commanded to show them their sin. We are commanded to show them their need for Christ through the Gospel, and how we show our love to them. Jesus did not alienate himself and protect himself from sinners like so many modern day churches are doing. (a prideful sin of the church I may add). He also did not go in and show them their sin. He showed them the love of God. and that love brought them to him, because he gave them hope the world could not give them. Paul did the same as did the rest of the apostles. It was the pharisees who came out judging people.

People should hate the church because it is changing lives, and taking their friends from them who do not wish to participate in their sinful ways anymore. Not because the church is alienating themselves, and being judgmental pharisee hypocrites who demand sinless lives when they can not even do it themselves. As scripture says. We can not obey the law, it is impossible. why would we demand someone do what we can not do?

Paul pointed out the sin in the church at Corinth. He pointed out tne sin of homosexuality in the leter to the Romans.
Paul confronted Peter at Antioch. Jesus pointed out the sin of the seven churches in Revelation.
I am not judging anyone. I am just pointing out what the Bible calls sin.

NO they cannot force me to do anything, and that is not what I said.
What I said is that they try to make me and everyone else accept their sinful lifestile as the norm.
And when I point out that it is sin, they judge me as a bigot.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

yeah you did miss the point and I don't recall using any statement about judging as the post was about warning people and how under new laws you will be found using hate speech!

I am trying to be kind here. God did not call the church to go out on street corners and condemn people for their sins. Jesus did not do it. And niether did anyone else. If you are doing it, and being called a hater, you deserve what you get. because your NOT doing what God wants you to do. You did not understand a thing I said now did you??

A person is not going to come to God when you are judging them. They have no capacity to even understand why you are judging them or to be able to stop sinning. They must be SAVED FIRST.

Your never going to save anyone by being a pharisee. You will ONLY have the ability to lead someone to Christ and change their life if you show them the gospel of love.

EVERYONE knows they are a sinner (romans 1) Are rightly judged as sinners (rom 1) and deserving of condemnation. God does not need to or anyone else to go judging them. Show them the gospel of Love, AND GOD WILL CHANGE THEM.

As for staning on the street corner. I will be one of th eones protesting you if you do this. IT IS NOT FROM GOD. You go and you confront a person who is ALREADY SAVED about sin (like the OT prophets did) not a person who is NOT A CHILD OF GOD!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul pointed out the sin in the church at Corinth. He pointed out tne sin of homosexuality in the leter to the Romans.

Yep HE DID IT IN THE CHURCH. Not on the street corner. A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Paul confronted Peter at Antioch. Jesus pointed out the sin of the seven churches in Revelation.
I am not judging anyone. I am just pointing out what the Bible calls sin.

Yes you are. And these men (and God) Did this to people who

1. Were already saved.
2. Already had the capacity to understand what sin was and why it is sin
3. had the power of God to help them understand their discipline. You discipline a child. NOT a person who is not yet a child. for they HAVE NO CAPACITY to understand WHY YOU ARE DISCIPLINING THEM

NO they cannot force me to do anything, and that is not what I said.
What I said is that they try to make me and everyone else accept their sinful lifestile as the norm.
And when I point out that it is sin, they judge me as a bigot.

Thats your problem.

1. You do not need to point out it is sin. They have no capacity to understand that anyway, or how to change it, or WHY you do not wish to participate in their sin.
2. You show them love. And say you have no desire to live that way in a NON judgmental attitude. Your happy the way you are.

NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO SIN, OR even trying to force you. If you think this. You are listening to satan. I have many friends who knows I will not do some of the things they do. And knows I will not judge them. But also understands I want them to have what I have through Christ. And are not offended by it.

This is what God wants. Not judging. A PHARISEE JUDGES. Not a Child of God.

 

[megaman125]

Saying homosexuality and abortion are sins is not judging or condemning. It's simply reporting the truth.

And what's this nonsense about only telling people who are saved about sin? You have to repent of your sins to be saved. If you're not saved and forgiven of your sins than whatever message you preach is no gospel message at all.

 

[dcontroversal]

I am trying to be kind here. God did not call the church to go out on street corners and condemn people for their sins. Jesus did not do it. And niether did anyone else. If you are doing it, and being called a hater, you deserve what you get. because your NOT doing what God wants you to do. You did not understand a thing I said now did you??

A person is not going to come to God when you are judging them. They have no capacity to even understand why you are judging them or to be able to stop sinning. They must be SAVED FIRST.

Your never going to save anyone by being a pharisee. You will ONLY have the ability to lead someone to Christ and change their life if you show them the gospel of love.

EVERYONE knows they are a sinner (romans 1) Are rightly judged as sinners (rom 1) and deserving of condemnation. God does not need to or anyone else to go judging them. Show them the gospel of Love, AND GOD WILL CHANGE THEM.

As for staning on the street corner. I will be one of th eones protesting you if you do this. IT IS NOT FROM GOD. You go and you confront a person who is ALREADY SAVED about sin (like the OT prophets did) not a person who is NOT A CHILD OF GOD!

Like I said, you missed the point and your seem to be ignorant of the fact that we are to warn the wicked of their ways and the fact that we are to see things the way God sees things...Maybe your gay and don't like it when preachers of truth preach against the wicked sins of society! And if you want to stand on the corner protesting a man/woman of God laying out the truth EXACTLY AS JESUS DID...even calling names and using such statements such as...Generation of Vipers, White washed coffins filled with dead men's bones, blind leaders of the blind etc. then have a ball.

And contrary to you foolish statement above...everybody knows they are a sinner...was ignorant to the facts as most have no comprehension of what it means to be a sinner before a righteous God.

Maybe you should spend more time studying instead of arguing mute points!

 

[3Scoreand10]

Yep HE DID IT IN THE CHURCH. Not on the street corner. A HUGE DIFFERENCE.


Yes you are. And these men (and God) Did this to people who

1. Were already saved.
2. Already had the capacity to understand what sin was and why it is sin
3. had the power of God to help them understand their discipline. You discipline a child. NOT a person who is not yet a child. for they HAVE NO CAPACITY to understand WHY YOU ARE DISCIPLINING THEM



Thats your problem.

1. You do not need to point out it is sin. They have no capacity to understand that anyway, or how to change it, or WHY you do not wish to participate in their sin.
2. You show them love. And say you have no desire to live that way in a NON judgmental attitude. Your happy the way you are.

NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO SIN, OR even trying to force you. If you think this. You are listening to satan. I have many friends who knows I will not do some of the things they do. And knows I will not judge them. But also understands I want them to have what I have through Christ. And are not offended by it.

This is what God wants. Not judging. A PHARISEE JUDGES. Not a Child of God.

How is a sinner to know he is sinning if he is not confronted with that sin?
And you are judging me, because I do not stand on a street coner. I teach it in church, and point out the truth to the sinner, and with the Word of God show him why it is sin, and try to lead him to repent and ask God's forgiveness.
Are you condeming me and others that teach that sin is sin.
Just maybe we would not be dealing with so much wickness in this nation if there were more people like me and fewer of those with your attitude tord sin.
SIN IS SIN and I will call it what it is and continue to try to win them to the Lord.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Saying homosexuality and abortion are sins is not judging or condemning. It's simply reporting the truth.

And what's this nonsense about only telling people who are saved about sin? You have to repent of your sins to be saved. If you're not saved and forgiven of your sins than whatever message you preach is no gospel message at all.

lol..
You do not read scripture do you> Romans 1 says ALL men know they are sinners thus are without excuse..

So if you want to go be a pharisee judging people and thinking that will save them/. Go right ahead. You will not win many people. only a bunch of hate (myself included. I grew up in a pharisee church and wonder how many people they turned away from God with their hypocritical gospel of works.

I don't preach a Gospel? Funny. I teach we are ALL sinners (no judgment) We ALL fall short of Gods standard (no judgment) and thus we are all separated from god. But he loved us so much he sent his son to die for us so we could be adopted as sons of God. All we have to do is have faith in the work of Christ. And believe God he says whoever believes in him will be saved.

What other gospel is there??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Like I said, you missed the point and your seem to be ignorant of the fact that we are to warn the wicked of their ways and the fact that we are to see things the way God sees things...Maybe your gay and don't like it when preachers of truth preach against the wicked sins of society! And if you want to stand on the corner protesting a man/woman of God laying out the truth EXACTLY AS JESUS DID...even calling names and using such statements such as...Generation of Vipers, White washed coffins filled with dead men's bones, blind leaders of the blind etc. then have a ball.

And contrary to you foolish statement above...everybody knows they are a sinner...was ignorant to the facts as most have no comprehension of what it means to be a sinner before a righteous God.

Maybe you should spend more time studying instead of arguing mute points!

!

wow dude. You have no grace do you? Maybe I am gay?? HA HA HA HA! No. I just KNOW I am a sinner.

as for the rest of your post?

You call God a liaR!

Maybe you need to study Gods word and the Life of Christ. Instead of judging things you do not understand.

Here is a start. And this is not my opinion. IT IS THE WORD OF GOD

Romans 1:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, [SUP]21 [/SUP]because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing to be wise, they became fools, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, [SUP]25 [/SUP]who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; [SUP]29 [/SUP]being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[SUP][c][/SUP] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, [SUP]30 [/SUP]backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [SUP]31 [/SUP]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[SUP][d][/SUP] unmerciful; [SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
!
Notice. According to this passage. GOD SAID HOMOSEXUALS KNOWS THAT THEY ARE IN SIN, And KNOWS THEY ARE RIGHTLY CONDEMNED. But they HAVE HIDDEN THE TRUTH IN THEIR HEART.

Your argument is with God not me.

and YES< I WILL CONFRONT PHARISEES. This as long as you want to preach phariseeism, I WILL CONFRONT YOU. You do not like it. Go talk with God!

 

[3Scoreand10]

lol..
You do not read scripture do you> Romans 1 says ALL men know they are sinners thus are without excuse..

So if you want to go be a pharisee judging people and thinking that will save them/. Go right ahead. You will not win many people. only a bunch of hate (myself included. I grew up in a pharisee church and wonder how many people they turned away from God with their hypocritical gospel of works.

I don't preach a Gospel? Funny. I teach we are ALL sinners (no judgment) We ALL fall short of Gods standard (no judgment) and thus we are all separated from god. But he loved us so much he sent his son to die for us so we could be adopted as sons of God. All we have to do is have faith in the work of Christ. And believe God he says whoever believes in him will be saved.

What other gospel is there??

You just judged Megaman 125.
You said he does not read scripture without any basis for such a JUDGEMENT!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How is a sinner to know he is sinning if he is not confronted with that sin?!

So everyone you know thinks they are sinnless? Can you introduce them to me., I have yet to find anyone who does not understand they have been morally wrong at least once in their life. Which is ALL we neeed to help them know they are condemned. Why focus on one or two sins. We ALL have a multitude of sin in our life. The difference is we (who are saved) have the power to understand and change. THEY DO NOT

And you are judging me, because I do not stand on a street coner. I teach it in church, and point out the truth to the sinner, and with the Word of God show him why it is sin, and try to lead him to repent and ask God's forgiveness.

So you teach a gospel according to the law? And not to Christ. why would you do this? And again, I ask, Why do you point out peoples personal sin when you do not have to? Your asking a person to change, then God will save them. Not helping them to get saved, then change, you have it backwards

Are you condeming me and others that teach that sin is sin.

No. I have no problem with you confronting a brother to sin. But if your teaching the law to the unsaved and telling them they have to get right with God to be saved, your teaching a false gospel.

Just maybe we would not be dealing with so much wickness in this nation if there were more people like me and fewer of those with your attitude tord sin.
SIN IS SIN and I will call it what it is and continue to try to win them to the Lord.

lol. No, we would not be dealing with so much sin if people saw the gospel for what it was and get saved. God will change their heart. Your not going to change anyone by judging and condemning them. All your going to do is prevent the gospel truth from going out.

You judge someone, You will get a hand in the face. History proves it. Thats why Jesus did not come to judge, He came to save. And why people like you got mad at him for hanging out with sinners.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You just judged Megaman 125.
You said he does not read scripture without any basis for such a JUDGEMENT!

No. I do have basis. He claimed that scripture does not say that everyone knows they are under sin. If he read and understood scripture. he would KNOW THIS.

I even posted the passage which proved him to be in error.

If you going to judge me. Then at least back it with proof. Like I do.

 

[Denken]

Yes, you can see a correlation between more educated countries and a rejection of Jesus. However, this rejection is not based on critical thinking. Being uneducated is not a qualifier for being a Christian. The real issue at hand is a simple matter of pride. The more you know, or the more you think you know, the more prideful you become. When you become prideful, you think you don't need God and that you know better than God, hence the rejection of God. It's not a matter of being educated or uneducated, it's a matter of if your increase of knowledge makes you prideful or not.

I dont think education creates pride. im sure some educated people are proud, but i would counter that the same % is prideful in the Christians.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I dont think education creates pride. im sure some educated people are proud, but i would counter that the same % is prideful in the Christians.

Just look at OT Israel. and you will see your point is proven..

Pride is one of the things Satan has brought into the church to distort God and his true Gospel. and as we see. It has worked quite will in the church, just like it did with the nation of Israel.

 

[3Scoreand10]

So everyone you know thinks they are sinnless? Can you introduce them to me., I have yet to find anyone who does not understand they have been morally wrong at least once in their life. Which is ALL we neeed to help them know they are condemned. Why focus on one or two sins. We ALL have a multitude of sin in our life. The difference is we (who are saved) have the power to understand and change. THEY DO NOT


So you teach a gospel according to the law? And not to Christ. why would you do this? And again, I ask, Why do you point out peoples personal sin when you do not have to? Your asking a person to change, then God will save them. Not helping them to get saved, then change, you have it backwards


No. I have no problem with you confronting a brother to sin. But if your teaching the law to the unsaved and telling them they have to get right with God to be saved, your teaching a false gospel.


lol. No, we would not be dealing with so much sin if people saw the gospel for what it was and get saved. God will change their heart. Your not going to change anyone by judging and condemning them. All your going to do is prevent the gospel truth from going out.

You judge someone, You will get a hand in the face. History proves it. Thats why Jesus did not come to judge, He came to save. And why people like you got mad at him for hanging out with sinners.[/QUO

NO I do not theach the law.
And yes most people I teach and fellowship with KNOW the sin daily.
But most of the lost I deal with do not understand what is sin and what is not sin.
This is because society has labled Homosexuality, abortion, sex without marriage, children born out of wedlock, devorce, and I can go on and on, as being acceptable.
You and I may know that it is sin, but many lost, and sadly true, many how claim to be saved don't understand because to many pastors and teachers have stopped pointing out what is sin.

 

[dcontroversal]

!

wow dude. You have no grace do you? Maybe I am gay?? HA HA HA HA! No. I just KNOW I am a sinner.

as for the rest of your post?

You call God a liaR!

Maybe you need to study Gods word and the Life of Christ. Instead of judging things you do not understand.

Here is a start. And this is not my opinion. IT IS THE WORD OF GOD

Romans 1:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, [SUP]21 [/SUP]because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Professing to be wise, they became fools, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.

[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, [SUP]25 [/SUP]who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. [SUP]27 [/SUP]Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; [SUP]29 [/SUP]being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[SUP][c][/SUP] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, [SUP]30 [/SUP]backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [SUP]31 [/SUP]undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[SUP][d][/SUP] unmerciful; [SUP]32 [/SUP]who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
!
Notice. According to this passage. GOD SAID HOMOSEXUALS KNOWS THAT THEY ARE IN SIN, And KNOWS THEY ARE RIGHTLY CONDEMNED. But they HAVE HIDDEN THE TRUTH IN THEIR HEART.

Your argument is with God not me.

and YES< I WILL CONFRONT PHARISEES. This as long as you want to preach phariseeism, I WILL CONFRONT YOU. You do not like it. Go talk with God!

You are not going to offend me as I have no argument with God..it is you that is legalistic in your stance not I. As far as Romans chapter 1-3 goes I have studied it well and your argument is mute concerning what people really know or don't know as I have dealt with numerous people in 25 years of preaching./pastoring that have no clue as to what it means to be a sinner before God. If you are a gay, you should repent

By the way I have used Romans 1-3 to argue against the guy on the proverbial island that never gets to hear the truth and the fact that he will bust hell wide open when he dies.

Again, you missed the point which was directed at all who will stand for the word and the labeling of such by the wicked of our society as a bigot, uneducated, backwards, stupid, a fool etc....which by the way applies unto you and I as well for what we believe!

Originally Posted by dcontroversal Question....

Is it biblical to have a man made law that allows men to worship God anyway they please?....John 4

Go stand on a corner in a big city and preach while slamming homosexuals, abortion and a few other contrary ways of life and see how long it takes to be arrested under the banner of hate speech.

The government has labeled all who believe in the bible as (cult members)

If you mouth Christianity you are accepted and even embraced by the majority of society, but if you make a stand on Christian values and teaching you are labeled a bigot, uneducated, backwards, stupid, a fool etc....

This country has run it's course and all signs point to a fall and judgment by God.

Even a study of secular history concerning (The Empire that was Rome) will show that this nation is following the same course/path that Rome took and the end result will always be the same when biblical Christianity is sidelined in favor of wickedness and anti-Christian values.

 

[Apostol2013]

Perhaps then Apostol2013, America, as a type of indulgence, should give more money to, and fight more unconstitutional wars, for the Pharisees in old Palestine and God will hold off destroying us. Right? After all, America's purpose is to blindly support the "synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9) is it not?

Removing the residents of Gaza brought hurricane katrina and obamas latest knucle head move brought more disaster but They still try to deny that Our God is sovereign , I am glad to e of Christ and s israelite .